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Ookla, the Incalculable

[All Cosmere, OB] Intent: Origin and interpretation.

10 posts in this topic

I think this is a very well constructed theory which fits in perfectly with Odium being Rayse's interpretation of the shard of passion.

One thing I don't believe we know yet however is whether the original vessels knew which shards they were going to hold, or really anything about their ascensions at all. Rather than his interpretation of the shard's intent making it a monster, I would argue that Ruin started out with more of Ati's intent (creating Scadrial with Preservation) but over time, was overcome by the shardic intent of Ruin.

We know a lot less of Rayse, but if he does indeed hold the shard of Passion, his original hatred could have been prevalent enough at the beginning of his time as a vessel to become known as Odium. He could even have named himself as such like Sazed named himself Harmony. Now, having been trapped for thousands of years, we could be seeing more of the Passion coming through as the shardic intent takes over.

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@powerfulmoss I will try to find WoBs to support this, but it's heavily implied that the Vessels knew what they were getting, if not before hand, then at least during the process of the Shattering.

The letter from Frost adds to this implication. 

Quote

He bears the weight of God's own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context. He is what we made him to be, old friend. And that is what he, unfortunately, wished to become

"what he wished to become." Rayse chose his Shard. 

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It's highly probable that the original vessels knew what they were taking. I imagine that the shards first dropped similar to how they dropped when Leras and Vin died in HoA, and Sazed could sense a general feeling of what concept they represented before taking them.

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I like it. I'm not fully behind it - I still think Odium is genuinely Hatred - but I like it.

You laid out many of the points I believe in - but I think that Ruin's Intent is not that far off from "Ruin":

Quote

Ruin's 'theme' so to speak is that all things must age and pass. An embodiment of entropy.
source

It's just that you can express "Ruin" in different ways.

13 hours ago, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

So while his interpretation of Ruin subsumed his personality, it was still shaped by the belief that caused it to be so violent and sadistic

There's a WoB I can't find that Scadrial ended up with one of the better versions of Ruin there could be.

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4 minutes ago, Ookla the Indefatigable said:

I like it. I'm not fully behind it - I still think Odium is genuinely Hatred - but I like it.

I believe the same, and that Odium is just a lying sack of crem. The "Passion" argument is part of what spawned this thread though. If, by some freak chance Rayse isn't lying, he's still Odium. 

6 minutes ago, Ookla the Indefatigable said:

There's a WoB I can't find that Scadrial ended up with one of the better versions of Ruin there could be.

I'm aware of it, and while I don't think it's untruein that Ati could have been much worse,  the WoB about Harmony shows that he's no where near the best possible outcome. 

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14 hours ago, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

I'm aware of it

Please help. I can't find it.

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1 hour ago, Ookla the Indefatigable said:

Please help. I can't find it.

I've searched Arcanum and theoryland for every possible combination I remember from that sentence and have found nothing. 

I am annoyed. 

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 Do you mean this?

Ati (Ruin's Vessel) was apparently kind and generous as a person, and so was probably one of the least destructive possible manifestations of Ruin. 

Or this?

Ati didn't have the willpower to resist its Intent affecting him, so hypothetically we could get someone who similarly expressed it as inevitable entropy but without going nuts and enjoying the process of destruction. Or we could have gotten something much worse...

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