[OB] Next target for Moash, Hearthstone?

[MonsterMetroid]

I've been relistening to WoR and right when Moash and Graves are confronting Kaladin I noticed Kaladin says this:

Quote

"The king hasn't yet seen you or graves. We'll go to Dalinar and we will see that you get justice from the right man. Roshone. The one truly behind your parents deaths."

*The formating of the quote is probably way off since I typed it up from listening to the audio book

I completely forgot that Kaladin told him about Roshone, I think this means that Moash will head to Hearthstone sometime in the next book and Kaladin will probably be there trying to get his family to leave for safety. From there who knows what happens, though if Moash kills Lirin...

Thoughts?

[KidWayne]

If Moash kills Lirin, it could send Kaladin on the path to join team Odium. Storms, it could set him up as Odium's Champion against Dalinar. All the seeds are there if you think about it. I would probably hate this outcome, but I could see Lirin's last words haunting Kaladin to the point that he would be tempted to give Odium his pain.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

11 minutes ago, Ookla the Metroid said:

From there who knows what happens, though if Moash kills Lirin...

Then Moash exhumes Tien's bones, constructs a bridge 4 throwback set of armor with said bones and Kaladin snaps.

 

6 minutes ago, Ookla the Hatter said:

If Moash kills Lirin, it could send Kaladin on the path to join team Odium. Storms, it could set him up as Odium's Champion against Dalinar.

I really hope that Moash doesn't go back to Hearthstone, makes my heart hurt for Kaladin just thinking about it.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

I don't expect a Lirin death, I just expect a showdown over Roshone, and that's when Kal says the fourth ideal, from my expectations.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Ookla the Obtuse

[MonsterMetroid]

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Obtuse said:

I don't expect a Lirin death, I just expect a showdown over Roshone, and that's when Kal says the fourth ideal. 

I expect Lirin to die somehow... I just dont see Kaladins family leaving hearthstone otherwise because he is so loyal to the people and I really feel like kaladins famliy will play a part in the next few books.

[ghajan monk]

Moash has shown he is not skilled with a shardblade so if Kaladin is there he would be able to stop Moash. I do not think that he would let Moash kill Roshone or Lirin after how Elhokar died.

Edited December 6, 2017 by ghajan monk

[Toaster Retribution]

18 minutes ago, ghajan monk said:

Moash has shown he is not skilled with a shardblade so if Kaladin is there he would be able to stop Moash. 

It wouldn't surprise me if Moash gets some new cool powers from Odium. Rayse seems to be a plan for him. He killed Jezrien and got a new name. I expect him to get some new powers as well.

[hypatia]

This is possible, but only if Odium see something in this for his greater goal - as in trying to really crack Kaladin.

In the moment I think more about Vyre (I can't think of him as Moash anymore) and the starting plot about the Heralds.

Vyre has joined the Fused - whatever they are ordered, he will be in the team.

Personally I think it will go against Cultivation, because Odium is trapped on Roshar and after the Splintering of Honor she is the one holding his prison.

 

[WhiteLeeopard]

I think Odium will give Moash a crash course on becoming his champion. It almost makes me feel bad for Odium. He spends decades grooming the Blackthorn, Dalinar shakes off his influence, and he is left with Moash as his champion in the Blackthorn's place. Talk about stepping down in levels. Because no matter how many powers Moash is given I just can't see him ever eclipsing the Blackthorn. 

[Willow]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Hatter said:

If Moash kills Lirin, it could send Kaladin on the path to join team Odium. Storms, it could set him up as Odium's Champion against Dalinar. All the seeds are there if you think about it. I would probably hate this outcome, but I could see Lirin's last words haunting Kaladin to the point that he would be tempted to give Odium his pain.

Because the guy who joined Odium kills Kaladin's father... Kaladin will now also join Odium? I can't really see it happening. Kaladin has had issues with his feelings against lighteyes (but Moash isn't a lighteyes anymore), but I think Kaladin's saving-people-thing and his feelings of responsibility are too overdeveloped to be tempted by Odium.  

[HoidsRock]

I've thought about this subject a bit.  First off, Moash seems to blame the king more than Roshone.  In WOR, it could be blamed on him not knowing Roshone's name but in OB, his hatred for Elkohar is an obsession.  Perhaps now that Elkohar is gone, it will switch to Roshone.  I certainly don't see Moash going after Lirin but I could Lirin, Hesina and Oroden caught in the crossfire.

On the other hand...what about Ialai going after Kaladin's family?  In WOK, Kaladin was an unknown troublemaker but Anaram could have connected the dots for her and point that Kaladin has family in Hearthstone.  Ialai does not have much of a motive beyond maliciousness but she did seem to suspect the bridgemen.  Kaladin's family could provide leverage, revenge, etc.

[Messremb]

I think Moash is being groomed to be Kaladins Arch-nemesis. Kaladin and Moash have a ton in common. They both were high dawn dark eyes, whos parent\grandparents had a clash with Roshone, that resulted in the death of a family member. They both joined the Army with dreams of fighting on the shattered plains only to end up in the bridge crews. they both are talented with the spear, and when they met, they both hated lighteyes, and wanted revenge on the people that wronged them.

they diverge from a similar starting point and end up on opposite sides because of it. Kaladin blames himself and holds himself accountable for everything, while Moash blames everything on others, and takes no personal responsibility.

I think Moash may end up causing the death of Lirin, I don't know if he will be personally responsible but I think it will lead to a major clash between Moash and Kaladin. Going really off topic here, I wouldn't be surprised if Kladin having to chose between saving his mother and brother, or his father, leads to him swearing the fourth ideal.

[Starla]

How ironic would it be if Kaladin defends Roshone against Moash after all those years of hating him and blaming him for Tien's death? Another Elhokar situation, but more personal. I'd like to see that.

What I don't want to see is Lirin or any other inhabitants of Hearthstone being caught in the crossfire. That would be too sad to take.  

1 hour ago, Willow said:

Because the guy who joined Odium kills Kaladin's father... Kaladin will now also join Odium? I can't really see it happening. Kaladin has had issues with his feelings against lighteyes (but Moash isn't a lighteyes anymore), but I think Kaladin's saving-people-thing and his feelings of responsibility are too overdeveloped to be tempted by Odium.  

I was just about to say this. I don't see him turning to Odium if one of Odium's agents kills someone he cares about. It would only make him be even more determined to oppose Odium. I think Kaladin's arc is moving away from killing altogether.

[IndigoAjah]

Moash has given up his identity hasn't he? He's given up all responsibility and with that his name.

[ghajan monk]

For all we know Moash could spend the entire next book building houses.

Though I do wonder if he will get put in charge of the remainder of Odium's human soldiers, or perhaps train Singers as a counter bridge 4.

[hoser]

Moash has handed his feelings over to Odium and been given a new name.  I would guess that he is on a dark path.  

Irrationally, because Kaladin liked him, I want him to twist free of Odium.  

I don't see how killing Roshone serves Odium significantly.  Pursuing revenge might actually be rebellious.  Odium could actually object to Moash free-lancing for his previous identity.  Realizing the emptiness of revenge and resenting Odium's control seems like his only hope.  Not bloody likely, though.

[Nymeros]

If Moash wanted to kill Roshone he would've started hunting him by now.

Moash no longer seems to have any agency.

[Fulminato]

17 hours ago, Ookla the Metroid said:

I've been relistening to WoR and right when Moash and Graves are confronting Kaladin I noticed Kaladin says this:

*The formating of the quote is probably way off since I typed it up from listening to the audio book

I completely forgot that Kaladin told him about Roshone, I think this means that Moash will head to Hearthstone sometime in the next book and Kaladin will probably be there trying to get his family to leave for safety. From there who knows what happens, though if Moash kills Lirin...

Thoughts?

the people aren't omniscient, how moash can know the roshone's place? and his vendetta was against the king, because isn't justice his seek, but the fulfill of his hatred against the lighteyes and the king is the most important lighteyes.

a thing he share with kaladin at the start of the WotK, but stormblessed after three book had finally overcome that. (the pivotal point is the city guard barrack, all the soldier are ligheyes. but for him there are no difference between them and the old spearcrew in amaram's army)

10 hours ago, ghajan monk said:

For all we know Moash could spend the entire next book building houses.

Though I do wonder if he will get put in charge of the remainder of Odium's human soldiers, or perhaps train Singers as a counter bridge 4.

don't think they waste an honorblade for a bricklayer. and i suppose his role will be more like szeth under the diagram directive. a skilled killer for infiltration and high profile target

Edited December 7, 2017 by Fulminato

[Stark]

12 hours ago, ghajan monk said:

Though I do wonder if he will get put in charge of the remainder of Odium's human soldiers, or perhaps train Singers as a counter bridge 4.

Just as long as he doesn't decide to name his Bridge 4 counter squad "Bridge Burners."  For one, the name is already in use.  For another, it's a little on the nose.

 

I don't know if he will.  He has let Odium in by giving away his pain, and claiming a lack of fault in events.  But he did have a few Bridge Four moments, where he claimed kinship with them, or used lessons from them.

 

I think Odium took a hit, losing Amaram.  Amaram was a villain who united the heroes against him, who had reason to hate or be hated by all.  Kaladin for the slaughter and lies, Shallan for her brother, Dalinar for the dark reflection of who Dalinar could have been if he abdicated responsibility for his actions.  Now, we have Moash, who has killed a Herald.  Who has killed a king.  Who betrayed Bridge Four, and murdered a man trying to protect his child.  Who has worked with the Fused, and has their respect, something Amaram never had.

I think Moash will be the new Amaram, the new human champion in the army of Odium, and a far more dangerous one than Amaram was.

[Nashan’Elin]

It does feel like Vyre is going to become a huge antagonist in these next books, and I agree that he’ll be much more dangerous than Amaram. Amaram was given Yelig-nar, and that Unmade’s basically a ticking time bomb. Amaram was basically screwed once he swallowed that gemstone, on what amounted to a suicide mission. Vyre, however, has been given an Honorblade and what I assume is an Odiumblade, granting him Surges, the ability to use Stormlight, and the ability to kill Heralds (and maybe break bonds?)

Vyre has been made far more dangerous. His role in all this, we don’t know so far. He could become Odium’s champion, or maybe Odium’s assassin. Regardless, I doubt he’s going after Roshone. Remember, Moash is dead. His world, and I bet his grudges, died with him. I’m not saying he wouldn’t kill Roshone if the two were face-to-face, but I don’t think he’ll seek out the man. I bet Vyre’s next target is one of the Heralds, maybe, or he could start up Nale’s old project of killing proto-Radiants. I guess we’ll just have to see. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Nashan’Elin

[Calyx]

I hope Moash doesn't somehow end up killing Kaladin's father (or any other members of this family). I feel like Kaladin's suffering is already enough, and that would just be too much.

[Walin]

I think Moash will win the race to Replace Jezrien and Kaladin will be stuck at the lowly tier of Knight Radiant. That will up the Evil Herald count to either 2 or 3, depending on whether Ishar is delusional or a traitor.

It would be cool if Kaladin just lopped off Moash’s limbs with his Shardblade and told him to apologize to Roshone or Elhokar’s Cognitive Shadow before he got Regrowth’ed with a fabrial or something.