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      Oathbringer Spoiler Policy   11/13/2017

      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
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MonsterMetroid

[OB] Patji is... what!!!

19 posts in this topic

I didnt see this WoB being discussed anywhere yet but this comes from the London Signing and is on Arcanum

 

Quote

Yurisses [PENDING REVIEW]

Investiture on First of the Sun is associated with a Shard?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, it is. That one is even closer associated with a Shard, the actual Investiture of the magic. Remember when I say Investiture, I mean matter, energy and magic. Sometimes the word Investiture just to the magic such as the Aviar and in that it is directly associated with one of the Shards

Yurisses [PENDING REVIEW]

Which one?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Patji is a Shard of Adonalsium

Everyone in the room [PENDING REVIEW]

*Stunned silence*

Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW]

Sorry, can you say that again?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Patji is a Shard of Adonalsium

Aurimus [PENDING REVIEW]

Is that one of the Aviar?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

No that is the island

Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW]

Island or islands?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

The island but Patji is one of the islands.

Yurisses [PENDING REVIEW]

It's a Shard?!

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, big asterisk! But yes.

Aurimus [PENDING REVIEW]

Shard as in equal or Shard as in a mass of Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

As in one of the 16 Shards of Adonalsium is represented and involved in First of the Sun. In fact, one of the letters references First of the Sun in this *Indicates to Oathbringer*

Sorry, I probably killed some theories on that one.

Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW]

Yup, but by doing that you've confirmed some as well so it's fine!

What do you guys think about this? Do you think it was originally one of the 16 or it ended up there somehow?

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OB Epigraph spoilers follow.

It's been heavily theorized that Autonomy has Invested in First of the Sun, and if you reread Autonomy's letter to Hoid in Oathbringer Part 2, you'll see her mention a lot about "waters" and something about a "test" for Hoid to take. This sounds reminiscent of First of the Sun, and seems to be what Brandon is referencing in the WoB you quoted. 

I just read through all the new event threads as well and was excited to see confirmation of that theory.

Edited by Ookla the Effervescent
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Dang now I'm really wishing I created this in the OB spoiler board...

Spoiler
7 minutes ago, Ookla the Effervescent said:

It's been heavily theorized that Autonomy has Invested in First of the Sun, and if you reread Autonomy's letter to Hoid in Oathbringer Part 2, you'll see her mention a lot about "waters" and something about a "test" for Hoid to take. This sounds reminiscent of First of the Sun, and seems to be what Brandon is referencing in the WoB you quoted. 

Isnt that the same shard as in white sands? it seems like a completely different magic system at a glance from the same shard. Very interesting does that mean location has a big effect on the magic system as well then?

 

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Just now, Ookla the Metroid said:

Dang now I'm really wishing I created this in the OB spoiler board...

  Hide contents

Isnt that the same shard as in white sands? it seems like a completely different magic system at a glance from the same shard. Very interesting does that mean location has a big effect on the magic system as well then?

 

Yes, that is the same Shard. The magic that results is more of a natural result of the combination of the Planet and the Shard, which is why it'll be different like that. I also think the asterisk in your WoB is that Patji is perhaps a large Splinter of that Shard, or that they have since left the planet behind (in the hundreds of years between Stormlight and SotD).

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I'm moving this to Cosmere Theories and flagging appropriately for obvious reasons.

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It should be Bavadin. It fits well with her "taking over religions" idea as well. If I remember correctly, Patji was basically seen as a god by Dusk. Does this mean that Bavadin is alive during Sixth of the Dusk though? That would be quite the spoiler, and should in that case mean that Bavadin might be one of the major players at the end of the Cosmere.

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I don’t think Patji is of Autonomy, simply because the nature of the magic is not particularly autonomous. Could it be a Shard we haven’t seen yet?

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OB spoilers:

Spoiler

I think that the answer might be a little simpler: First of the Sun is Obrodai.  

I think it's safe to assume that all of the names of Shardworlds we've been using (Roshar, Scadrial, Nalthis, e.t.c) are all either Yolish in origin, or at least not from the planets themselves.  Note how Kelsier had to be told the name of the planet he was living on by Khriss and Nazh.  This is obviously false for First of the Sun, but there must be a Yolish (maybe not actually Yolish but you get what I mean) name for the planet, as there has been for all of the other planets.

Autonomy talking about being "standing in the seas, pleased with our domains" could just be her (they?) waxing poetic, but it is confirmation that Autonomy is invested in multiple planets.  

Taking this further, Patji could even be the "new avatar" that is mentioned in the letter.  OB takes place way before SotD, so in the meantime Patji could have grown up.  

 

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22 minutes ago, Ookla the maladroit said:

I don’t think Patji is of Autonomy, simply because the nature of the magic is not particularly autonomous. Could it be a Shard we haven’t seen yet?

I think we have a somewhat limited view of the Shard's Intent if we go solely by the name. Who would've thought before OB that 

Spoiler

Odium is the Shard of all extreme emotions, not just hate  

Besides, one definition of Autonomy is self-reliance, and you have to be very self-reliant to survive Patji. 

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What about the 'survival' shard? That seems to fit the idea of Patji to me.

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Autonomy's aspects can have a wide variety of goals and desires. This is a totally new thing with that second letter in OB so I don't know how much we can say there about it specifically. 

 

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16 hours ago, Ookla the Effervescent said:

The magic that results is more of a natural result of the combination of the Planet and the Shard, which is why it'll be different like that

Hmm that is interesting now that you put it like that. It seems like Automation really does investin sources other than humans anyways right. I mean most of the investiture is in the sands in the White sands book ( I havent read the prose version yet mainly cause i dont know where to find it so im not sure) right? And now the investiture is definately in the Aviar but possibly other plants and animals too. 

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Patji is depicted as a male god, though. That rebuts the ‘she’ idea.

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11 minutes ago, Sol Invictus said:

Patji is depicted as a male god, though. That rebuts the ‘she’ idea.

Hah! Bavadin is not contained by petty things like gender identification! 

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2 hours ago, Ookla the Metroid said:

Hmm that is interesting now that you put it like that. It seems like Automation really does investin sources other than humans anyways right. I mean most of the investiture is in the sands in the White sands book ( I havent read the prose version yet mainly cause i dont know where to find it so im not sure) right? And now the investiture is definately in the Aviar but possibly other plants and animals too. 

If you want to find White Sand, subscribe to Brandon Sanderson's newsletter, at brandonsanderson.com and team Sanderson should include it with your next newsletter. If they don't you can always shoot them an email and Adam will get it sorted out.

Yes, it seems that Shard's will have different systems depending on the foci of the planet, among other things. I  personally think Bavadin has sent out multiple Splinters to "conquer" other planets, for lack of a better word. Patji is probably one of many (like Trell ;)).

1 hour ago, Sol Invictus said:

Patji is depicted as a male god, though. That rebuts the ‘she’ idea.

Yeahhhh not with Bavadin, Brandon has said that she has been many things if it suits her. The aspect she talks about in the letter is probably another offshoot, or aspect, of her identity.

Edit so I don't double post: @raykoda, Obrodai was confirmed to be a new Shardworld in one of the Oathbringer signings (I can't remember which). But beyond that, the way the writer differentiates between the watery world they're writing from, it is clear Obrodai is somewhere else. We also know that Hoid has never been to First of the Sun, and the letter states he has been to Obrodai.

Edited by Ookla the Effervescent
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True...but Bavadin refers to the new avatar as ‘she’.

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3 hours ago, Sol Invictus said:

True...but Bavadin refers to the new avatar as ‘she’.

It's possible that the trappers just got its gender wrong. Patji doesn't seem like a particularly gendered name to me, so it could be interpreted either way. Maybe the Eelakin (?) just got it wrong.

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I really highly doubt that Patji is Autonomy/Bavadin. My money is on Patji being its own Shard, perhaps the Survival shard.

Edited by Ookla the Melodious
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12 hours ago, Sol Invictus said:

Patji is depicted as a male god, though. That rebuts the ‘she’ idea.

 

11 hours ago, Sol Invictus said:

True...but Bavadin refers to the new avatar as ‘she’.

Relevant WoB:

Quote

emailanimal

[Brandon] must have had enough of chuckles every time someone referred to Bavadin as a "he" over the past few years.....

Brandon Sanderson

Bavadin has several male personas, and has often appeared as male for one purpose or another, so it's not that much of an issue. She has more female personas, but some of the male ones are quite popular.

This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

Argent

There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

I think that's hilarious.

I've been meaning to ask a similar question for a few days now, I am glad someone else did and you replied. Bavadin is now instantly super interesting to me!

Brandon Sanderson

Bavadin is awesome. One regret of finally moving on from White Sand (and doing the graphic novel, instead of doing an entire trilogy myself) is because I won't get to show her off as a character for a while. It should still happen, mind you, but I have enough on my plate right now that I just can't do it all.

Argent

Eh, it's alright. The more we wait to see her, the more practice writing you will have when you do write her, and the more awesome she will be to us :) Are we going to see her in White Sand first though, or elsewhere?

I've also been talking with a couple of friends about Ambition, who happens to be a Shard I love unconditionally just because of his?her? mandate. So I should ask - how tight-lipped do you intend to be with information about it? Can we prod for a little bit of trivia, or is it too early for that?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm going to be pretty tight-lipped for now. Let's at least let White Sand finish first--you will find her in there, though her touch on the story (directly) is light. She prefers to allow her personas to become the focus of attention.

 

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