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[OB] It lives!

31 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, Darvys said:

I didn't read fear in that passage, only disbelief and even anger. I recall reading somewhere ( book or WoB ? can't recall ) that Odium doesn't dare to invovlve himself too directly as it would leave him open to a strike from Cultivation, it's understandable that upon discovering that Honor's power was still a factor in the game, he'd want to pull away and rethink his position.

@Hoidonalsium Not even Hoid knows the answer to that, and you're asking us ?

If Honor's power was still in the game, and he just found this out, I'd say shrinking back was a pretty classic fear based reaction. 

And yes. Two possible explanations.

One - I'm still relatively new to the depths of the non-canon theories and the content of WoBs, so I'm still learning what the community cumulatively knows.

Or

Two - like my worldhopping namesake, I enjoy posing seemingly stupid questions that have unexpected depth, with the intent of inspiring, confusing or annoying people.

... Whichever reason suits you best :P

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8 minutes ago, Hoidonalsium said:

If Honor's power was still in the game, and he just found this out, I'd say shrinking back was a pretty classic fear based reaction. 

Caution was the wiser course of action, i doubt Odium would have survived so long if he'd been reckless in his crusade.

 

9 minutes ago, Hoidonalsium said:

And yes. Two possible explanations.

One - I'm still relatively new to the depths of the non-canon theories and the content of WoBs, so I'm still learning what the community cumulatively knows.

Or

Two - like my worldhopping namesake, I enjoy posing seemingly stupid questions that have unexpected depth, with the intent of inspiring, confusing or annoying people.

... Whichever reason suits you best :P

I'll have to settle for the first, as the second would compel me to hunt you down and put an end to your taunting existence, one Hoid is enough for both universes i believe

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1 minute ago, Darvys said:

Caution was the wiser course of action, i doubt Odium would have survived so long if he'd been reckless in his crusade.

 

I'll have to settle for the first, as the second would compel me to hunt you down and put an end to your taunting existence, one Hoid is enough for both universes i believe

I was reading the fear reaction / shrinking back as a real-time emotional outburst from the shardholder, rather than anything tactical. Sort of like a flinch, as his instincts realise the threat before any conscious actions / decisions are made.

Certainly Odium wouldn't generally behave recklessly. But we're talking about an instant where he is witness to something he thought impossible (whichever theory you ascribe to - Evi returning from Beyond, Dalinar reuniting Honor, Adonalsium still being alive in some form - he's seeing something where even the most stoic of gods would have to do a double-take). 

 

And yeah - fair point. Though I do love a good multi-layered cake...er...question. 

But in honesty - I really would love a thought or two on the Stormfather's weird rambling in that moment. Does it actually make sense in context with the scene we're reading, is it something weird and interesting about the white stone area he 'imagines', or is he actually speaking of something greater? 

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10 minutes ago, Hoidonalsium said:

I was reading the fear reaction / shrinking back as a real-time emotional outburst from the shardholder, rather than anything tactical. Sort of like a flinch, as his instincts realise the threat before any conscious actions / decisions are made.

And yet his first action was stepping forward, in complete disbelief then he assessed and decided to pull back ( sure the scrambling part wasn't too dignified ). I have trouble seeing fear in that.

22 minutes ago, Hoidonalsium said:

Does it actually make sense in context with the scene we're reading, is it something weird and interesting about the white stone area he 'imagines', or is he actually speaking of something greater?

I don't have the knowledge to begin guessing. Who can say what kind of implications a being like the Stormfather spending millenia shaping such a place in his mind could have, as for how it could relate to Adonalsium's possible survival, if anything its chances would dwindle, as according to the Stormfather for the smaller pieces to live the whole must first die. And if as someone theorized the Shard's intents are the remanents of Adonalsium's consciousness, well i don't see how both could exist simultaneously. 

To start speculating on what reassembling the Shards would spawn, we'd need to first understand what Adonalsium was, which i don't think we do.

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Posted (edited)

On 12/4/2017 at 0:18 PM, Hoidonalsium said:

Would the vase's soul die, but each piece of the vase gradually gain their own souls?

Can you put a vase back together and suddenly those pieces die and the soul of the vase is rejuvinated? 

Or is it a whole new vase-soul?

Would it be Adonalsium if the shards reformed, or something new?

Wait a minute. This suddenly gave me some idea.

If we say soul casting is to persuade the cognitive aspect of a soul, hence alter the physical aspect, then what is forgery? 

To study the soul's history in the physical form, learn the cognitive traits it would have, and make the stamp that would alter the soul's history just right so it have a different manifest in both cognitive and physical realm. 

In that sense, if you put the vase back together, and sink a stamp on it so that it had never been broken, then it would be convincible that it would be the same vase's soul.

Then would Adonalsium not be a target for this history rewrite? Unite them, and then sink a stamp..  Where to sink that stamp though.. 

I remember reading about Hoid used to be in one of the draft in Emperor's soul. Why was he there?

Edited by moejarv
add in the vase analogy.. jumped too fast
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1 hour ago, moejarv said:

Wait a minute. This suddenly gave me some idea.

If we say soul casting is to persuade the cognitive aspect of a soul, hence alter the physical aspect, then what is forgery? 

To study the soul's history in the physical form, learn the cognitive traits it would have, and make the stamp that would alter the soul's history just right so it have a different manifest in both cognitive and physical realm. 

In that sense, if you put the vase back together, and sink a stamp on it so that it had never been broken, then it would be convincible that it would be the same vase's soul.

Then would Adonalsium not be a target for this history rewrite? Unite them, and then sink a stamp..  Where to sink that stamp though.. 

I remember reading about Hoid used to be in one of the draft in Emperor's soul. Why was he there?

This wouldn't work, as soul stamps have difficult changing things with investiture, the reason souls resist. So doing this to a shard would require a ridiculous amount of investiture, like equal or more than the shard in the first place.

Hoid was there to steal the Moon Scepter, which can be used to translate between different magics on Sel.

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