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Etruscan

How would the Shards we know of act with different Vessels?

8 posts in this topic

Just for clarification, I mean this in a discussion sense, not a question sense. Sorry if this is the wrong area to post this, I couldn't see a forum headed "Cosmere discussion" which is where I think this would fit best. Basically, we know that the Intent of a Shard is influenced, at least somewhat, by its Vessel. For example, Ati (Ruin's Vessel) was apparently kind and generous as a person, and so was probably one of the least destructive possible manifestations of Ruin. Similarly for Odium, Rayse was "loathsome, crafty and dangerous" even before Ascending, and so his interpretation of the Shard Odium is just about the worst possible. So, how do you think people with different personalities would affect the Shards we know about? For example, if Ati had taken up Odium's Shard, would he have focused more on the general "passion" part of the Shard (which Rayse says is the true Intent of the Shard), and less on the "hate" part. 

Edited by Etruscan
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afaik the "loathsome, crafty and dangerous" statement about Rayse comes only from Hoid, who may not be entirely trustworthy.

OB:

Spoiler

The other shards who wrote the letters in section 2 epigraphs seem much less concerned about Rayse than Hoid is.

 

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3 hours ago, shawnhargreaves said:

afaik the "loathsome, crafty and dangerous" statement about Rayse comes only from Hoid, who may not be entirely trustworthy.

OB:

  Hide contents

The other shards who wrote the letters in section 2 epigraphs seem much less concerned about Rayse than Hoid is.

 

Hoid may just know Rayse better than the others. 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/136/#e2101

Quote

Alaxel (Paraphrased)

He asked for "Something juicy about Odium that no one knows about yet."

Brandon Sanderson

Odium and Hoid were once friends.

 

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Imagine Hoid taking up a shard- something like Wisdom, or maybe Wit.

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Just tossing some ideas out there, I could imagine Preservation being expressed more in terms of scholarship, where the magic system comes to people who are passionate about studying (preserving) knowledge of the past. Or for the most destructive interpretation I can think up offhand, it could go to the extremes that Ati tells Kelsier about with Preservation touring around the Cosmere, finding interesting planets and using its power to freeze them in one 'perfect' moment. I think Ruin might even have a less destructive manifestation if its Vessel had been someone else; Brandon mentioned that Ati didn't have the willpower to resist its Intent affecting him, so hypothetically we could get someone who similarly expressed it as inevitable entropy but without going nuts and enjoying the process of destruction. Or we could have gotten something much worse...

We know Honor could look quite different if someone like Sadeas was its Vessel per WoB. The thing that immediately came to mind was what happens in Star Trek from TNG onwards with Klingons and their concept of honor, which gets lampshaded in DS9 when Worf calls them out on caring more about glory than honor. I could totally see Sadeas expressing Honor along those lines, though without knowing the exact dimensions of that Intent I'm not sure exactly how that might be expressed.

And right now I'm stumped on Endowment (but we're told that Hoid would find this Shard potentially tempting, so I'm sure there's some neat possibilities someone else can think up) and we know too little about some of the other Shards right now for me to think up good ideas. Particularly Dominion, which I can imagine some ideas for but it would help to know for certain what its canonical 'theme' is first. :D

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I don't think Odium is very crafty. Ruin is crafty, which matches the intent. Ruining can be slow, like water on stone. Odium is all impulsive. He even went to the battleground in person. And his way of converting Dalinar is far from subtle. He is basically repetitively saying "Give me your passion and be my guy" and hoping Dalinar will be hypnotized. I think Hoid was exaggerating his danger.

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On 2017-12-08 at 6:51 AM, echaozh said:

 I think Hoid was exaggerating his danger.

Considering that Rayse has a killcount consisting of at least three Shards, most likely four, and maybe even more than that, I'd say that Hoid isn't really exaggerating. 

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On 24/11/2017 at 1:41 AM, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

Hoid may just know Rayse better than the others. 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/136/#e2101

 

This could be a double-edged sword. The fact that they were once friends could mean that Hoid is bias when talking about how dangerous Rayse can be. 

But with Odium's first conversation with Dalinar and Odium basically saying that he wants to be the only god/ruler, it kind of vindicates Hoid's opinion. 

Edited by Kered
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