WildSpeculation Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) I am looking for some feedback on my Surgebinding chart that has been updated for Oathbringer. I am sure many of you saw Connections that I missed. I have included an Excel doc, a PDF doc, and picture for your viewing pleasure. And here we go: Stormlight.pdf Stormlight.xlsx Edited November 21, 2017 by WildSpeculation Crap can someone move to OB spoiler board? I am an idiot! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulminato Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 nice works. but we had any external proof of the elsecaller resonance? if only the hoid comment at the end of WoR don't think is solid enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildSpeculation Posted November 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Fulminato said: nice works. but we had any external proof of the elsecaller resonance? if only the hoid comment at the end of WoR don't think is solid enough. Nope, that is why it is highlighted yellow (yellow are guesses) and tagged wild speculation. I had Gloryspren marked as Bondsmith's minor spren and future sight as Truthwatcher's Resonance before Oathbringer. As you can see, I unhighlighted Gloryspren and crossed out futuresight as they were confirmed/blown out of the water in Oathbringer. I am hoping to fill in more of the chart with confirmed information and guesses and see what we can do. The goal of this chart is to try to get as much information in one place to see if there is any correlation. As you can see I inserted the Unmade into the chart after the preview chapters; however, I did not see any further confirmation throughout the rest of the book so that whole column remains highlighted. I may remove it or just move it into a separate chart, but I could see a argument to try to put the Thrill (Nergaoul) is a corruption of the Divine Attributes of Brave and Confident or Obedient. So throw those WildSpeculations around and let's see if we can guess some things correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulminato Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 20 minutes ago, WildSpeculation said: Nope, that is why it is highlighted yellow (yellow are guesses) and tagged wild speculation. I had Gloryspren marked as Bondsmith's minor spren and future sight as Truthwatcher's Resonance before Oathbringer. As you can see, I unhighlighted Gloryspren and crossed out futuresight as they were confirmed/blown out of the water in Oathbringer. I am hoping to fill in more of the chart with confirmed information and guesses and see what we can do. The goal of this chart is to try to get as much information in one place to see if there is any correlation. As you can see I inserted the Unmade into the chart after the preview chapters; however, I did not see any further confirmation throughout the rest of the book so that whole column remains highlighted. I may remove it or just move it into a separate chart, but I could see a argument to try to put the Thrill (Nergaoul) is a corruption of the Divine Attributes of Brave and Confident or Obedient. So throw those WildSpeculations around and let's see if we can guess some things correctly. 1) i think the unmade are tied to the emotion (the stronger), more like the 'seven sin'. for example re-shephir don't copycat the coincidently murded with the bottle but the men hanged after, 2) the edgedancer resonance come from? 3) based on the ivory spoke before jasnah try to kill renarin the truthwatcher see something, the past probably (“He sees not what is, but what is to come,” Ivory said. “Odium’s power, Jasnah.”) 4) the resonance of bondsmith i think is "connection" He can share the connection with other (dalinar learn the language touching a person), and share his connection with someone (give shallan the stormfather impression of roshar, he can share the vision with someone simply touching him/her) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signspace13 Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 I don't Know if I agree with the title of 'godspren' for the bondsmith's spren, they are powerful and each seems to be related to the shards, but I feel like 'oathspren' is a more accurate term. Dalinar refers to the stormfather as "a spren of oaths" more than once and the fact that it is the stormfather that decides whether an oath is acceptable or not even for other orders of the Radiants suggests that it is linked to his intent. The nightwatcher also seems to be about binding people to their word, though in a more sinister way in some cases. I feel like oathspren is more precise description of them than 'godspren'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildSpeculation Posted November 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Fulminato said: 1) i think the unmade are tied to the emotion (the stronger), more like the 'seven sin'. for example re-shephir don't copycat the coincidently murded with the bottle but the men hanged after, 2) the edgedancer resonance come from? 3) based on the ivory spoke before jasnah try to kill renarin the truthwatcher see something, the past probably (“He sees not what is, but what is to come,” Ivory said. “Odium’s power, Jasnah.”) 4) the resonance of bondsmith i think is "connection" He can share the connection with other (dalinar learn the language touching a person), and share his connection with someone (give shallan the stormfather impression of roshar, he can share the vision with someone simply touching him/her) 1. I tend to agree with you. I did jump into the deep end with the preview chapter of Shallan fighting Re-Shephir. That is partially why I don't have any other Unmade in the actual chart and may remove that column entirely. for now it will sit there until the hype from Oathbringer cools down and more study and theories are put out on the forums. 2. From Edgedancer - Lift seems to have an ability to speak with the urchin that can't be explained easily. 3. I think we need to be careful using Renarin as an example of what a Truthwatcher is. He is bonded to what appears to be an Odium tainted spren. In his PoV, he mentions that the visions are not from him nor is it from Glys, but something separate. (at work, no book, so no quote) The actual Truthwatcher Resonance may be something else entirely. 4. I think connection may just be Spiritual adhesion. I think what he did with Shallan and the map is something different. However, you do have a valid argument and I can see the enhancement just being another example of Connection. I might put both in that space until we get more information, maybe from WoBs from the events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildSpeculation Posted November 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 minute ago, signspace13 said: I don't Know if I agree with the title of 'godspren' for the bondsmith's spren, they are powerful and each seems to be related to the shards, but I feel like 'oathspren' is a more accurate term. Dalinar refers to the stormfather as "a spren of oaths" more than once and the fact that it is the stormfather that decides whether an oath is acceptable or not even for other orders of the Radiants suggests that it is linked to his intent. The nightwatcher also seems to be about binding people to their word, though in a more sinister way in some cases. I feel like oathspren is more precise description of them than 'godspren'. I understand the statement, but that is the term that is going around the forums since WoR, so I used it here. It is also in use on the coppermind: Quote "Godspren" It has been theorized that the Bondsmith spren may be "godspren" -- in other words, the cognitive representation of the people of Roshar's gods. This might explain why Bondsmiths are said to have bound such "specific" spren, and also why there is only three Bondsmiths at any given time. Presumably, this would be due to that fact that there would only be as many powerful "godspren" at any given time as there were heavily worshipped gods on Roshar. Honor (i.e. The Almighty) and Cultivation are two obvious candidates for having "godspren." Indeed, The Stormfather is already confirmed to be the "godspren" of Honor.[Citation needed] Who the other worshipped god could be on Roshar is unclear at this point. It should be noted that "pious" is the primary divine attribute of Ishar, the Herald of the Order of Bondsmiths. This would seem to fit with the idea of Bondsmiths sharing a Nahel bond with "godspren." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l_raspberries Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 I think you should put lightspren as the Willshaper spren. We met Captain Ico, the lightspren, who says (1) his father is a deadeye and (2) his daughter "ran away to chase dreams" [paraphrasing] We know that Eshonai sure fits the description of a Willshaper and it looks like she was trying to bond Timbre. Timbre later says something about her grandfather being betrayed (killed in the recreance?) which links her to Captain Ico. So, Timbre is a lightspren. Then we know that Dalinar said he was missing on of the orders at the end there and Willshapers are the only ones unaccounted for. It also works, since had Eshonai not died, she could have been there. Instead, Timbre had to restart the bonding process. Thus Venli is the missing Willshaper and Timbre is a lightspren so lightspren are the Willshaper spren. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiamondMind Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) There's been multiple discussions about things in your chart. I made a similar if less comprehensive version, for example. I have some additional info filled in. There's been discussion about the Unmade, matching the Unmade to the Orders happens on the second page You know what, I might as well do it myself...I'll upload it in a bit. Ok, done, I also named all the Ideals we've heard and made them a bit more universal. For the Unmade, I put in the ones that I think have the strongest support. The other three use more guesswork. Feel free to disagree. Stormlight.xlsx Edited November 21, 2017 by DiamondMind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondaysjelly Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 Water as the minor for Mist perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildSpeculation Posted November 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Sorry guys, long weekend and I let this tread die, but you deserve responses. On 11/21/2017 at 5:45 PM, DiamondMind said: You know what, I might as well do it myself...I'll upload it in a bit. Ok, done, I also named all the Ideals we've heard and made them a bit more universal. For the Unmade, I put in the ones that I think have the strongest support. The other three use more guesswork. Feel free to disagree. I like some of what you have going on here. I was unsure with the Mistspren, at first I thought that they were a minorspren because they were serving the Honorspren on their ship. However, all of the other minor spren that we saw (Lifespren and Gloryspren for example) were not sapient. So I do now agree that Mistspren are probably a Majorspren. How did you come to place them with Truthwatchers? Is there something in the story or WoBs that I missed? (entirely possible) If we put Mistspren as a majorspren On 11/21/2017 at 4:10 PM, l_raspberries said: I think you should put lightspren as the Willshaper spren. We met Captain Ico, the lightspren, who says (1) his father is a deadeye and (2) his daughter "ran away to chase dreams" [paraphrasing] You make a very convincing argument and in fact I had Lightspren in that spot. I moved it down to possible spren before I posted this chart because I didn't think there was enough evidence. I will put it back now, but mark it as unconfirmed. On 11/21/2017 at 5:45 PM, DiamondMind said: There's been multiple discussions about things in your chart Yes, this is not the first time that we have tried to put things in an easy to read format. In fact, I have posted this chart before Oathbringer. Obviously it was an older version using the information that we had at the time. On 11/21/2017 at 5:45 PM, DiamondMind said: There's been discussion about the Unmade For this, I am still not convinced that the Unmade belong on this chart. I did find the discussion fascinating and saw many convincing arguments on both sides. With all of that being said, I did fill in the chart with all of the Unmade, marked as unconfirmed. Thanks for all of the feedback everyone! The theorizing and guessing is one of the things that I love about Brandon's books! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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