[OB] Rock is the Horneater King

[NightFrost]

So way back when we first learned how Rock became a bridgeman we learned that his "Highprince" came to earn shards because of a old myth stating that whoever gains shards would be king. Now fast forward to OB Rock has killed Amaram and earned both plate and blade plus he is well on his way to become a full KR. This means that if he returns to the Peaks then he would be crowned king. This is important because one of the few ways to worldhop is in the peaks and I think that in order to defeat Odium or heroes will need to travel to his planet and fight him on his own turf. So I think that in a future book the KR will travel to the peaks to crown Rock and gain access to the perpendicularity. However Sanderson will probably through in some major conflict like a mudbeer drinking contest or something through the KR can cheat by using stormlight.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

3 minutes ago, NightFrost said:

some major conflict like a mudbeer drinking contest or something through the KR can cheat by using stormlight.

Ha! Airsick lowlander. Lunamor does not need such a thing to win simple drinking contest!

[Egomere]

I think he was already King (or certainly high up). I mean we got some hints when his family arrived and (can't quote from book - and too lazy to find it atm) he seems to feel happy that they arrived (and he was able to save them obvs.) but sad that Bridge Four would find out he had lied about alot.

And when talking to his wife? he says something like "I should Never have let HORNEATER NAME go / try"  - now if the person he let 'lead' the expedition was security distraction and a brother of his surely that could mean he Could have stopped his bro from trying to win the shards.

We have alot to learn about Rock and his background... - will try to dig out the exchange I'm talking about in a bit so highlight the part i'm talking about.

[Subvisual Haze]

Rock is clearly concealing something about his background and the number of brothers that he lost to Sadeas.  It wouldn't surprise me that Rock is now the head of his clan post conflict with Sadeas.

[The Sovereign]

1 hour ago, NightFrost said:

Now fast forward to OB Rock has killed Amaram and earned both plate and blade plus he is well on his way to become a full KR. 

Not to nitpick (as I'm about to pick some nits...) but technically Amaram's blade and plate were acquired illegally so in theory they are legally still Kaladin's (although he obviously does not want them). Oathbringer on the other hand was legally Amaram's via inheriting Sadeas' Princedom but Rock willingly forfeited it to Dalinar. 

Also, by the end of Oathbringer Rock has not bound a Spren and is still only a squire so to say he is "well on his way to becoming a Knight Radiant" might be a stretch...

Edited November 20, 2017 by The Sovereign

[Crem]

Spoiler: I think, Rock is another Radiant, “Stonewarden”. Evidence: 1) cooks and meals build team cohesion 2) when we get a view of his thoughts they are concerned with others”cohesion” and counter 3) “tension” his family and past. 5) His name is “Rock” 6) He pulled the shard bow “tension/ cohesion”. 7) Body focus “bones” - horn eaters

I rest my case, “Watch the Lupin astound you.”

O almost forgot, rejected shard blades like Kalidan didn’t feel right. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Crem

[deddinty]

Given we know there's some Very Bad Things going on up at the Horneater Peaks both in Shadesmar, moeloch settling there,  and from Rock's family seemingly the physical side of things I feel like we're going to see the Peaks soon enough. 

[RShara]

I don't think Rock is the Horneater king, but I think he might be from the royal family, and might now be the heir.  I really doubt the Horneaters would let their King go on a likely fatal quest.

[CaptainRyan]

29 minutes ago, RShara said:

I don't think Rock is the Horneater king, but I think he might be from the royal family, and might now be the heir.  I really doubt the Horneaters would let their King go on a likely fatal quest.

I think the theory is that he has become the king of the Peaks by virtue of obtaining Shards. In the Way of Kings when Rock tells his backstory he says there is a tradition among his people that the first person to acquire Shards will become king. 

[RShara]

He doesn't have Shards yet, though.  He's currently a squire, able to use Stormlight when Kaladin is around, but hasn't bonded a spren.

[Calderis]

18 minutes ago, RShara said:

He doesn't have Shards yet, though.  He's currently a squire, able to use Stormlight when Kaladin is around, but hasn't bonded a spren.

In killing Amaram, he obtained Shards. 

[Tetrisash]

3 hours ago, Crem said:

Spoiler: I think, Rock is another Radiant, “Stonewarden”. Evidence: 1) cooks and meals build team cohesion 2) when we get a view of his thoughts they are concerned with others”cohesion” and counter 3) “tension” his family and past. 5) His name is “Rock” 6) He pulled the shard bow “tension/ cohesion”. 7) Body focus “bones” - horn eaters

I rest my case, “Watch the Lupin astound you.”

O almost forgot, rejected shard blades like Kalidan didn’t feel right. 

I love this theory, would love to see it happen and I can picture it happening. I only wonder why Rock wouldn't say anything about being bonded, regardless of the type of spren.

[skaa]

It think it is very likely that Rock is now nuatoma of his Peak. Check out this exchange between him and his wife shortly after they reunited (Chapter 37):

Quote

 

“What of Tifi and Sinaku’a?” she asked him.

“Dead,” he whispered. “They raised weapons in vengeance.”

She put her hand to her lips. She wore a glove on her safehand, in deference to silly Vorin traditions. “Then you—”

“I am a chef now,” Lunamor said, firm.

“But—”

“I cook, Tuaka.” He pulled her close again.

...

She walked the children across the bridge. He watched, and was glad to hear Unkalaki again, a proper language. Glad that the other men did not speak it. For if they did, they might have picked out the lies that he had told them.

 

 

 

What was Tuaka trying to say? And when did Rock lie to the others? Well, I'm thinking he lied just a few pages ago in the same chapter:

Quote

 

Kaladin chuckled, handing Lunamor his cup. Then he leaned in. “What happened to your brother, Rock?”

“My two brothers are well, so far as I know.”

“And the third brother?” Kaladin said. “The one who died, moving you from fourth to third, and making you a cook instead of a soldier? Don’t deny it.”

“Is sad story,” Lunamor said. “And today is not day for sad stories. Today is day for laughter, stew, flight. These things.”

 

I bet Tifi and Sinaku'a were his brothers, and they are obviously not "well". The third brother, Kef'ha, was the nuatoma that challenged Sadeas and was murdered for it. Tifi and Sinaku'a tried to avenge their brother and met the same fate.

So now Rock/Lunamor/Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor is the nuatoma. Tuaka realized this, but Lunamor doesn't want to accept that responsibility yet and so he insists on being a chef. I think eventually this is something he'll need to deal with in order to gain an honorspren bond, or (if he does gain a bond) at least to progress in his Oaths (i.e. to gain a Shardblade, and thus become king of the Unkalaki).

Edited November 21, 2017 by skaa

[PhineasGage]

7 minutes ago, skaa said:

I bet Tifi and Sinaku'a were his brothers, and they are obviously not "well". The third brother, Kef'ha, was the nuatoma that challenged Sadeas and was murdered for it. Tifi and Sinaku'a tried to avenge their brother and met the same fate.

I suspect that he does still have 2 brothers and that they are well. They are simply younger than he is.

Horn-eater families are large - Rock himself says so. He may well have been 5th (or even lower) son but his 4 elder brothers are now dead. He may still have 2 younger brothers. 

 I do agree that he is now likely head of his family and possibly more (both given that he was likely important anyway and also because he now owns shards). King? Well I think he needs to accept the responsibility before he can technically be called that. OB's main theme was accepting responsibility. He may not feel he can given that killed Amaram - he seems to have made an oath not to fight - perhaps he killed an older brother and that is why he went from being a soldier to being a cook? It might explain why he has such an aversion to fighting.

[Etruscan]

12 minutes ago, PhineasGage said:

I suspect that he does still have 2 brothers and that they are well. They are simply younger than he is.

I too agree that he's probably head of his family now. But regarding the two "well" brothers, I don't think so. The only way he would know that they are well is if they came with him on his journey to the Plains. If, however, they are still alive, I don't see how we haven't been introduced to them yet. Surely Rock would have brought him with him to Urithiru, and they at least would be known to us. Given that is not the case, I think they challenged Sadeas in retribution and were killed, as was previously mentioned in the thread. That said, I don't see why Rock would lie about that, so maybe not. 

 

[Solant]

It could be something simple, like his older brothers were killed so he was "promoted" from soldier to cook, and he felt like he was misleading by suggesting he was always a cook and never a soldier. That was my impression, at least. 

It would be interesting to see if maybe he falls into the role of Horneater King by returning home with Amaram's shards in the gap between book 5 and 6, perhaps.

[Elena]

1 hour ago, skaa said:

I bet Tifi and Sinaku'a were his brothers, and they are obviously not "well". The third brother, Kef'ha, was the nuatoma that challenged Sadeas and was murdered for it. Tifi and Sinaku'a tried to avenge their brother and met the same fate.

I agree with most of this, but my own theory went: Kef'ha = nuatoma, a cousin. Rock said he was the nuatoma's cook - maybe the third brother died previously, and he became a third son. Then the nuatoma died, and so did Rock's two elder brothers. He may be nuatoma now, but I think there was some truth in his being a cook, and didn't immediately jump from fourth son to first. Being a cook feels lile a very practiced backstory, so I think it had some foundation and he didn't immediately come up with it in Sadeas's camp, and was indeed a cook for a while.

[skaa]

30 minutes ago, Elena said:

Being a cook feels lile a very practiced backstory, so I think it had some foundation and he didn't immediately come up with it in Sadeas's camp, and was indeed a cook for a while.

He actually talks about how he got his cooking experience in the chapter I got those quotes above:

Quote

Kaladin was wrong; Lunamor hadn’t become a cook. He’d always been one, since he could toddle up the stepstool to the counter and stick his fingers in the sticky dough. Yes, he’d once trained with a bow. But soldiers needed to eat, and nuatoma guards each did several jobs, even guards with his particular heritage and blessings.

So it seems he enjoyed cooking even when he was fourth son working as a nuatoma guard.

Edited November 21, 2017 by skaa

[Elena]

13 minutes ago, skaa said:

So it seems he enjoyed cooking even when he was fourth son working as a nuatoma guard.

Yes I remember that, but the fact that immediately after coming to Sadeas's camp he took up cooking duties makes me think it's something he did for a while and not just a hobby. I can't shake off the idea that his third brother died before the other two; maybe it's just the fact that he misleads Kaladin into thinking only one of his brothers died and it influenced my thoughts too.

Anyway, it sounded like he and the nuatoma were definitely close.

[Darvys]

1 hour ago, Elena said:

Yes I remember that, but the fact that immediately after coming to Sadeas's camp he took up cooking duties makes me think it's something he did for a while and not just a hobby. I can't shake off the idea that his third brother died before the other two; maybe it's just the fact that he misleads Kaladin into thinking only one of his brothers died and it influenced my thoughts too.

Anyway, it sounded like he and the nuatoma were definitely close.

I suppose in his mind, it was better to cook chull droppings for the man who killed half his family than to fight for him, or worse try to kill him and end up dead while he has a family waiting back home (probably wasn't too smart to feed him dung in this scenario but well, it's Rock). 

That aside, i don't think Rock will want to keep the shards right now, if they remind Kaladin of the men he failed to protect, they would remind him of the promise (?) he failed to keep. And it just feels weird for a member of Bridge 4 to wield shards other than their bonded spren, let Moash be the only one to walk that path.

And if Rock is going to be king, much better for it to come after his growth as a Radiant than as a result of killing Amaram, let that bastard have no impact whatsoever on helping mankind survive.

[Stairdweller]

Are we sure that horneater leadership is hereditary in the same way as Alethi?  I ask because if Nuatomas are first sons, then gor generations A) they've been ignoring the prohibition on fighting to go challenge shardbearers and B ) the horneaters have been sending their farmer-lords to fight shardbearers!  No wonder they didn't win any shards!

 

Also.... Are we just going to gloss over Rock being part Singer?

[NightFrost]

Uh where you learn about Rock being part Singer?

[Elsecaller3414]

9 minutes ago, NightFrost said:

Uh where you learn about Rock being part Singer?

Horneaters and Herdazians are part Singer. I just saw it in another thread, I don’t remember which, but basically Horneaters have extra jaw bones and Herdazians have carapace-like nails from a cross-breeding or something a long time ago.

[Blacksmithki]

8 minutes ago, NightFrost said:

Uh where you learn about Rock being part Singer?

There is a WoB (on mobile can anyone else post it?) that the horneaters and (however you spell lopen's people) have human AND parshendi ancestors

Also, does it seem odd to anyone else that the two races with the largest families are the two with parshendi heritage? And yet the parshendi do not appear to have large families (nor do the parshmen) and neither do the humans on Roshar despite that being the norm in this time period.

[aemetha]

1 hour ago, Blacksmithki said:

Also, does it seem odd to anyone else that the two races with the largest families are the two with parshendi heritage? And yet the parshendi do not appear to have large families (nor do the parshmen) and neither do the humans on Roshar despite that being the norm in this time period.

Not particularly. Assuming they inherited a little emotion from the Parshendi, consider that the Parshendi spend very little time in mate forum, and are constantly amazed at the human ability to get anything done because they are always in mate form. This suggests a much stronger drive to mate than humans experience, when in the appropriate form. If the Horneaters and Herdazians inherited even a small amount of that drive, they would likely end up with larger families than is the norm.