[OB] No, we killed you.

[animalia]

On 11/25/2017 at 10:26 PM, teknopathetic said:

I am of the opinion that Cultivation helped do a coup de grace on Honour for 3 reasons:

1) Honour was insane, and as his partner, Cultivation felt she should end his life rather than Odium get the satisfaction. 
      (Honor was insane and hasn't realized this)

2) Cultivation felt that she would be able to gather information about a shattering. Having it happen on her terms could help her learn more.

3) Cultivation could gain some of Honour's power almost like using him as fertilizer.
              - She now is making things like Radiants that don't need stormlight, and Leaders that can see the future (Mr.T)

Possible Fourth 

4) Cultivation could have taken a seed of Honour and used his body as fertilizer. Now Unity is growing out of the powers
             honour left behind. Have her agents somehow collected powers from Sel? Honour + Dominion + Devotion would be
             Unity, no? Even a pruning of Honour itself could be Unity.  Has Cultivation made a better shard?

I wonder if Kelsier helped Cultivation with this? After all Brandon Sanderson DID say he really wanted to punch Honor in the face.

Edited August 20, 2018 by animalia
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[Scion of the Mists]

1 hour ago, animalia said:

I wonder if Kelsier helped Cultivation with this? After all Brandon Sanderson DID say he really wanted to punch Honor in the face.

The timeline doesn't fit.  Honor was splintered long before Mistborn Era 1.  

[animalia]

Just now, Scion of the Mists said:

The timeline doesn't fit.  Honor was splintered long before Mistborn Era 1.  

We don’t have a timeline for when Honor splinterd last I checked, do we?

[Scion of the Mists]

13 minutes ago, animalia said:

We don’t have a timeline for when Honor splinterd last I checked, do we?

I guess not.  The most I've been able to find is that he was still around during Recreance, which was close to 2000 years before Way of Kings.  Mistborn Era 1 is only a couple hundred years before Stormlight.  

[+Child of Hodor]

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I guess not.  The most I've been able to find is that he was still around during Recreance, which was close to 2000 years before Way of Kings.  Mistborn Era 1 is only a couple hundred years before Stormlight.  

Not officially, but we know from the Stormfather that Honor was dying before the Recreance and his ravings to the Radiants influenced them. The last vision that's based on a historical event is of the Recreance. This suggests he didn't live too long after the Recreance which was as you say was ~2,000 years ago. I don't think Kelsier was born by the time Honor died. 

[goody153]

I support the theory that Cultivation has something to do with Honor's fall. Tho Kelsier isn't part of the picture for sure and Kelsier doesn't have have to be involved in everything. Even Hoid can't be involved in everything just for the sake of it.

[NoiseSpren]

I think that dreams Dalinar have are part of bigger game from : Adonalsium/ (=?) God beyond/ Cultivation. 

We killed you! is  probably about Adonalsium.

"I forgive you" was Evi from beyond, I think.

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, NoiseSpren said:

I think that dreams Dalinar have are part of bigger game from : Adonalsium/ (=?) God beyond/ Cultivation. 

We killed you! is  probably about Adonalsium.

"I forgive you" was Evi from beyond, I think.

The God Beyond and the beyond are things that are never going to be confirmed, intentionally. 

Evi was, in my opinion, the remnant of her Spiritual aspect. The Spiritual leaves a "corpse" that does not completely fade. 

Evi herself went Beyond. Whatever you choose to believe that means. 

[Trons]

Fairly new to the Cosmere and just finished OB.  My understanding may be limited, but I joined because of this thread.  I believed, when I read the book, and nothing in this thread has changed my mind, that We = Odium and Dalinar and you = Evi.  To me, it just fit.  As other had mentioned, BS started the long game back in TWoK and Dalinar's story being closely related to The Thrill.  We find out, during this sequence, that Odium is feeding The Thrill to Dalinar and has been, for a while.  We learn that Odium pushed Dalinar to kill his wife, through The Thrill.  We know that Odium believes he is aware of how much pain Dalinar is under and is supremely confident that his plan will work.

To me, it was obvious that Odium had seen the future, way back then, and "knew" that he had to get Dalinar to kill his wife because the guilt he would feel, years later, would be compounded with all the other things he had done while under the influence of The Thrill, and that would push Dalinar to his side, when he (Odium) offered to take responsibility for all those acts.  Evi saying "I forgive you" could not had been anticipated, much the way (as also previously pointed out) that Renarin couldn't see Jasnah sparing him.

So, the only thing against that I can come up with, that makes sense, on the surface is, if Odium "knew" Dalinar was going to join him because of the pain that The Thrill and killing Evi has caused him (Dalinar), why/how did Dalinar not give the pain to Odium before Evi forgave him.  If this all rotates around Evi, then Dalinar should have not been able to fight Odium until he was forgiven.  EXCEPT, if we are going with the idea that Odium saw the future before Dalinar killed his wife, then he may not have known that Dalinar would seek out the Nightwatcher and lose his memories, allowing him to grow in a way that Odium may not have been able to foresee.

I liken this to playing chess with my best friend.  He hated playing against me because every so often, I'd do something so stupid it would up-end his overall strategy and give me the victory.  I'm a very mediocre player, and he was pretty good.  Dalinar going to the Nightwatcher may be that one move, in the game that Odium didn't anticipate so didn't bother to check on, ect.  Since Dalinar was still experiencing The Thrill after that visit, Odium may not have been aware of the changes.

Almost everything above has been mentioned above, at this point I'm just adding that I, too, believe that.  The WOB that is quote, referring to a RAFO, imo, doesn't cloud the issue any more than it's already clouded.  I also believe that this was purposely put in.  As I've heard other's say, BS is a very specific writer and it seems like, to me, in this particular instance, he's purposefully playing the pronoun game so we specifically have to ask and since he doesn't give us an answer by the end of the book, it's going to be bigger than we expected...