[OB] Amaram

[Calderis]

This is about how Amaram is an idiot. Maybe it was due to the Thrill, I don't know. 

Yelignar granted him access to how many surges? 

He used Cohesion to soften the ground and trap Kal's foot. 

He used Division in some capacity to make the very air burn. 

He used a lashing to remain in the air longer then he should have. 

There may have been more, I think I remember a burst of Abrasion. 

In short, of someone bonded with Yelignar in that manner, and were able to actually practice with the surges granted... They could be far, far more frightening than Amaram was. 

[ScavellTane]

Now that the gemstone is cracked, is Yelignar free? Or perhaps the ancient singers are singers that have bonded with the unmade and we'll see Amaram return.

[Storyspren]

57 minutes ago, Calderis said:

 

In short, of someone bonded with Yelignar in that manner, and were able to actually practice with the surges granted... They could be far, far more frightening than Amaram was. 

I think that whole amaram fight was setting up for precisely a kind of Uber Bad you speak of. 

[Stromblessed]

Yeah that fight was anticlimactic. Surgebinders could heal from most wounds that would have otherwise been fatal ( Shallan gets shot in the forehead ffs). So why does  someone bonded with Yelignar, one of the Unmade have such an obvious weakspot that he got rekt by 2 arrows ?(albeit really big ones)

I was fully expecting that fight to end in a kind of stalemate so that Amaram could return to torment Kaladin in the next book but he got tied up really quick and Moash got set up as Kaladin's big bad villain 

[WhiteLeeopard]

I actually was a bit annoyed by how everyone was picking up surges on first try and excelling after 5 seconds flat. Kaladin needed weeks of practice to be even able to use surges reliably, and days more of practice to be half-way competent with them. But in OB everyone just used surges immediately as if they'd had weeks of practice, from Bridge 4, to Amaram (okay he was kind of clumsy but still used several things on what was obviously the first time he ever had the power), to Moash just Lashing at the end as if it were nothing. 

[Stromblessed]

4 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I actually was a bit annoyed by how everyone was picking up surges on first try and excelling after 5 seconds flat. Kaladin needed weeks of practice to be even able to use surges reliably, and days more of practice to be half-way competent with them. But in OB everyone just used surges immediately as if they'd had weeks of practice, from Bridge 4, to Amaram (okay he was kind of clumsy but still used several things on what was obviously the first time he ever had the power), to Moash just Lashing at the end as if it were nothing. 

Yeah that's weird since Moash was never a squire.

But Bridge four did have a few weeks of training and Lopen and Teft practically helped Kaladin learn his surges in TWoR.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how Vathah and his team turn out since Shallan never actually trained them in light weaving.

[ScavellTane]

He has been lashed by the Fused a couple of times so he knows what to expect. He not in combat in that scene just lashed to fly/fall. If you've gotten used to the sensation of 'flying' i take it its fairly easy to maneuver in the open sky. 

For Amaram, Yelignar could be 'communicating' to him on how to use the surges.

Edited November 19, 2017 by ScavellTane

[Darvys]

Well even Kaladin didn't really need weeks to learn his surges, he got good at Lashings in a night and was using basic adhesion since he first saw it manifested. The struggle was figuring out how to trigger the surges, from there using them reliably wasn't too hard. Note that bridge four are nowhere near his mastery, from Dalinar's comment they're still just dropping like stones even after a few weeks using the surge, i'm waiting to see how bonding a spren will improve Teft and Lopen's skill.

[Agent34]

6 minutes ago, Darvys said:

Well even Kaladin didn't really need weeks to learn his surges, he got good at Lashings in a night and was using basic adhesion since he first saw it manifested. The struggle was figuring out how to trigger the surges, from there using them reliably wasn't too hard. Note that bridge four are nowhere near his mastery, from Dalinar's comment they're still just dropping like stones even after a few weeks using the surge, i'm waiting to see how bonding a spren will improve Teft and Lopen's skill.

It'll give them independence with their power. Surgebinding seems like an instinctive magic system when it comes to use and learning.

[FollowYourMuse]

12 minutes ago, ScavellTane said:

For Amaram, Yelignar could be 'communicating' to him on how to use the surges.

I think it may be more than Communicating, 

Quote

“If you wish for the promised power, ingest that—then try to control the one who follows. But be warned, the queen at Kholinar tried this, and the power consumed her.”  OB Chapter 118

 

[Wolfbeckett]

20 hours ago, Calderis said:

In short, of someone bonded with Yelignar in that manner, and were able to actually practice with the surges granted... They could be far, far more frightening than Amaram was. 

Can you imagine this in the hands of Szeth?

Dude would rock the house.

[dvoraen]

21 hours ago, ScavellTane said:

Now that the gemstone is cracked, is Yelignar free? Or perhaps the ancient singers are singers that have bonded with the unmade and we'll see Amaram return.

Yelig-nar was free probably since before Queen Aesudan swallowed the gem to invite him in for supper (consuming her).  He can be seen described by Odium before Amaram ingests the smokestone he was given, so this particular Unmade is running loose.  I think he's too weak from not having a food chain to do anything himself... yet.  Either that, or the tales we've been told about Yelig-nar have been a big fat load of wrong.

 

I find it very interesting that Kaladin seems to sense that he's pulling the strings with Aesudan and Amaram, though each one denies it (while obviously being consumed by him).

Edited November 20, 2017 by dvoraen

[WhiteLeeopard]

1 hour ago, Wolfbeckett said:

Can you imagine this in the hands of Szeth?

Dude would rock the house.

If Szeth can get a handle on his (possible) highspren and Nightblood he will rock the house beyond what the Unmade could dream . I really, really want to see Nightblood eat an Unmade. Good thing Szeth has attached himself to a guy that can summon a perpendicularity on command, as with Nightblood thats less of an excentricity and more of a very useful lifeboat.

[Fulminato]

22 hours ago, Calderis said:

This is about how Amaram is an idiot. Maybe it was due to the Thrill, I don't know. 

Yelignar granted him access to how many surges? 

He used Cohesion to soften the ground and trap Kal's foot. 

He used Division in some capacity to make the very air burn. 

He used a lashing to remain in the air longer then he should have. 

There may have been more, I think I remember a burst of Abrasion. 

In short, of someone bonded with Yelignar in that manner, and were able to actually practice with the surges granted... They could be far, far more frightening than Amaram was. 

Yelig-nar had great powers, perhaps the powers of all Surges compounded in one. He could transform any Voidbringer into an extremely dangerous enemy. Curiously, three legends I found mention swallowing a gemstone to engage this process.
—From Hessi’s Mythica, page 27

Oathbringer Chapter 95 epigraph.

i think between yalig-nar and amaram the first was in charge.

[Calderis]

15 minutes ago, Fulminato said:

I think between yalig-nar and amaram the first was in charge.

Based off his words, I don't fully agree,although it could be functioning similarly to what we saw with Eshonai. 

If Yelignar was in control I think it was in that method, where it was still Amaram's mind acting according to an external guide. 

[Necessary Eagle]

8 hours ago, dvoraen said:

Yelig-nar was free probably since before Queen Aesudan swallowed the gem to invite him in for supper (consuming her).  He can be seen described by Odium before Amaram ingests the smokestone he was given, so this particular Unmade is running loose.  I think he's too weak from not having a food chain to do anything himself... yet.  Either that, or the tales we've been told about Yelig-nar have been a big fat load of wrong.

 

I find it very interesting that Kaladin seems to sense that he's pulling the strings with Aesudan and Amaram, though each one denies it (while obviously being consumed by him).

See, I thought Odium meant, "Aesudan went nuts from bonding an Unmade", not specifically, " Aesudan went nuts from bonding Yelig-nar". Are we sure Y-a was the one Aesudan had?

[Mulk]

Amaram was an idiot, but it was understandable that he didn't know how to fully access and use all of his power.  And I highly doubt that Yelig-Nar was in control.  Amaram has a strong enough sense of self that he's likely at least made the fight for control a toss up.  And that itself may be why he wasn't more effective - he was having to spend so much energy keeping control of himself that he couldn't fully engage the power Yelig-Nar offered.  Or was afraid enough of losing control of himself he never really dove into deeper waters.  There's also this nagging feeling I have that he never really took Kaladin as seriously as he should have. 

I'm in the camp thinking Moash is probably going to wind up being that guy.  Or at least come very close to it.  I don't know if he'd be able to kill Kaladin yet, though.  That may be his only way back from where he is now.

[dvoraen]

1 hour ago, Necessary Eagle said:

See, I thought Odium meant, "Aesudan went nuts from bonding an Unmade", not specifically, " Aesudan went nuts from bonding Yelig-nar". Are we sure Y-a was the one Aesudan had?

Yes.

- She had a wreath of black smoke start winding around her and began growing amethyst crystals throughout her body.  She even says "Yelig-nar serves me."

- Amaram was given "a proper housing for Yelig-nar", which was a smokestone he swallowed.

- Amaram exhibited the same smoke-like aura and crystal growth as Aesudan.

[emailanimal]

10 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I really, really want to see Nightblood eat an Unmade.

"See. I am very good at fighting evil. That was a lot of evil. I am sure you will draw me more often now."

[rjl]

On 19/11/2017 at 10:22 AM, Calderis said:

This is about how Amaram is an idiot. Maybe it was due to the Thrill, I don't know. 

I don't think he was an idiot (except for being an idiot to join Odium...)

But rather the point was that he'd never used any surges before, he was experimenting with the powers in the fight he had no prior experience or skill with any of them.

Kaladin still struggled because he was fighting fused at the same time + Amaram was already a skilled swordsman with two shardblades + shardplate.

[WhiteLeeopard]

1 hour ago, emailanimal said:

"See. I am very good at fighting evil. That was a lot of evil. I am sure you will draw me more often now."

And then what do you bet that our heroes win and a new country is born which worships Nightblood as the ultimate god? 

[Necessary Eagle]

2 hours ago, dvoraen said:

Yes.

- She had a wreath of black smoke start winding around her and began growing amethyst crystals throughout her body.  She even says "Yelig-nar serves me."

- Amaram was given "a proper housing for Yelig-nar", which was a smokestone he swallowed.

- Amaram exhibited the same smoke-like aura and crystal growth as Aesudan.

Okay. My memory of the middle of the book is a bit fuzzy.

[summers]

Amaran was a willing coward. Everytime he had the change to be who he pretended he failed. He talked of forging Kaladin, of course that's BS but it could have been true. Everyone was talking about Kaladin, they called him stormblessed, if he paid even the slightest attention to his armies he would have gained Kal loyality and be in a batter position that ever. 

Him getting superpowers changed nothing, he was just some jerk swinging his sword making making stuff break.

[Fulminato]

On 20/11/2017 at 9:45 AM, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

Based off his words, I don't fully agree,although it could be functioning similarly to what we saw with Eshonai. 

If Yelignar was in control I think it was in that method, where it was still Amaram's mind acting according to an external guide. 

amaram was (no so) slowly changing in a amethyst golem, i don't know for sure, but if he was realy on control he shouldn't change so much.

and yes, he was a total idiot, the scene whit jasnah in the tower is proof enough,

Edited November 30, 2017 by Fulminato

[Awesomness]

I think Odium was stupid because he didn't make Amaram swallow the gem before, so that he wouldn't be changing into an uber-surgebinder while fighting. With a little more practice this wold have been way different. Maybe he was saving Yelig-nar for Dalinar... Or maybe they did underestimate the KR.

I liked that Kaladin never fought in anger, always focused in protecting Dalinar. He was over Amaram by the time.