EC11

Theory: The Evil (Threnody) is a Splinter of Ambition

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So bear with me on this one. but it seems to me that with the little we do know about The Evil from Shadows for Silence would suggest that it (if indeed it is an it) is a splinter of the power that was thrown off during Ambition's fight with Odium. Now this comes from my thinking that if the evil is indeed a personification of some of the attributes of Odium and Ambition it is possible that it is an accidental creation of the conflict. What little we do know does tell us that lots of the fight took place in the Cognitive Realm (or maybe Spiritual Realm?) and so the ripples from the conflict seem to have "bled" through to the world of Threnody.

This might be a wild card theory, but I think Ambition might have (in an ambitious way) tried to create a piece of herself to survive her fight with Odium. Perhaps that or a failed attempt to escape?

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20 minutes ago, EC11 said:

So bear with me on this one. but it seems to me that with the little we do know about The Evil from Shadows for Silence would suggest that it (if indeed it is an it) is a splinter of the power that was thrown off during Ambition's fight with Odium. Now this comes from my thinking that if the evil is indeed a personification of some of the attributes of Odium and Ambition it is possible that it is an accidental creation of the conflict. What little we do know does tell us that lots of the fight took place in the Cognitive Realm (or maybe Spiritual Realm?) and so the ripples from the conflict seem to have "bled" through to the world of Threnody.

This might be a wild card theory, but I think Ambition might have (in an ambitious way) tried to create a piece of herself to survive her fight with Odium. Perhaps that or a failed attempt to escape?

Actually, this made me wonder if maybe it's a splinter that is part Odium, part Ambition.

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It does make you wonder. My guess is that the bleeding of power has had some kind of consequence (like the Aons and Seons on Sel) which could be the Evil itself, or simply have caused the wonky nature of the Cognitive Shadows on Threnody. The biggest distinction is whether or not the Evil is a distinct entity or if it is just a more "benign" example of splintered power investing itself.

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On 11/19/2017 at 6:11 AM, EC11 said:

the wonky nature of the Cognitive Shadows on Threnody

(spoiler for Oathbringer)

Spoiler

The wonky nature of the Cognitive Shadows on Threnody may actually be very relevant to Stormlight Archive now that we know that Odium essentially preserves the Cognitive Shadows of singers.  In both cases we wind up with undead ancestors.  

 

 

Edited by emailanimal
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@emailanimal, this topic isn't marked OB spoilers, so could you put your post in spoiler tags? Pretty please?

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2 hours ago, john203 said:

this topic isn't marked OB spoilers,

Done. My bad.

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On 11/21/2017 at 7:42 AM, emailanimal said:

Done. My bad.

Sorry to harp on you, but putting it in a spoiler box isn't enough. If you won't have something outside the box saying what book the spoiler is for, then you'll simply have people wondering if they should open it or not, because they aren't sure if they've read the book you have spoilers for.

That isn't a huge deal on this specific board, where OB is the only book that needs spoilers, but it's still good practice.

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I would tweak this to assume they are splinters of Odium. We do know Odium has been wounded and lost a chunk of himself somewhere, likely Threnody. There also was a WoB where Brandon said we have seen a Shard purposefully leave splinters. I suspect this is what might be going on on Threnody, along with the similarity between the red eyes of the Odium-influenced Parshendi and the red eyes of the shades.

Edited by Jellomancer
Bad grammar lol
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1 minute ago, Jellomancer said:

We do know Odium has been wounded and lost a chunk of himself somewhere, likely Threnody.

Source plz

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4 minutes ago, John203 said:

Source plz

The essay for Threnody in Arcanum Unbounded says he was grievously wounded there. I believe there is also a hint that investiture left behind by that battle affected the planet. Could be Ambition or Odium, but I am inclined to think the latter.

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14 minutes ago, Jellomancer said:

The essay for Threnody in Arcanum Unbounded says he was grievously wounded there. I believe there is also a hint that investiture left behind by that battle affected the planet. Could be Ambition or Odium, but I am inclined to think the latter.

Sorry, the essay for Threnody says that Ambition was grievously wounded, not Odium.  Odium is fine.

Quote

THE Threnodite system is a site warped by an ancient conflict. Long ago, soon after the Shattering, Odium clashed with (and mortally wounded) the Shard Ambition here. Ambition would later be Splintered, though that final act took place in a different location.

 

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It says Odium clashed with and mortally wounded the shard ambition. 

Ninja'd. Darn.

Edited by John203
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True, but somewhere else, [OB sort of spoiler below?]

Spoiler

it has been mentioned Odium recieved a wound he wouldn't want repeated

This thread discusses some of the references in Oathbringer we have to this.

Also we have a WoB that indicates Odium could have purposefully left splinters too (OB Leeds Signing).

 

 

Edited by Jellomancer
Realized this might be a bit spoilerish so I added some tags.
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Something being scarred implies that it's healed, but has left a mark.  So yes, Odium has been hurt, but I don't think he's left chunks of his power anywhere that he didn't intend to.  He's just more cautious now.

If anyone, I suspect Skai (Dominion) is the one that hurt him.

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So, *inaudible* Tanavast *inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

 *inaudible* Yes, that was, in fact, that wasn't intentional.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

*inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

So, Odium *inaudible*, not as good as he got, but he make it cost.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Did he sacrifice himself?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Skai didn't sacrifice himself, I'd say he went out swinging.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Is Odium just better at this?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

I would say, yes. *inaudible.*

source

 

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1 minute ago, RShara said:

Something being scarred implies that it's healed, but has left a mark.  So yes, Odium has been hurt, but I don't think he's left chunks of his power anywhere that he didn't intend to.  He's just more cautious now.

If anyone, I suspect Skai (Dominion) is the one that hurt him.

 

Ah good point. Still, the similarities on Threnody are eerie enough to make me suspect Odium either voluntarily or involuntarily left investiture there. Maybe.

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On 11.2.2018 at 2:57 AM, RShara said:

Something being scarred implies that it's healed, but has left a mark.  So yes, Odium has been hurt, but I don't think he's left chunks of his power anywhere that he didn't intend to.

But isn't he also referred to as "The Broken One"? Through, personally, I believe that Honor and Cultivation were the ones who seriously hurt him before trapping him on Braize and that the Dawnshards were somehow involved. OB Spoilers:

Spoiler

And Ashyn was the collateral damage.

 

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There's a WoB somewhere that basically says that a Shard can leave an invested planet in 2 ways: 1) slowly divest and leave whole, or 2) rip itself away and abandon any Investiture not divested.

If I remember correctly, Odium and Ambition started fighting on Threnody, then the fight finished out in space. My theory is that Ambition tried to flee and had to use option 2 to escape, leaving a chunk of itself that it didn't have time to reclaim. That chunk/Splinter became The Evil

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OP, I kind of agree with this. My first Cosmere Theory (and first ever post I made on the site) was in relation to this: a connection between the Evil and Ambition. You know how shades are Cognitive Shadows, right? I think the Evil is the shade/CS of a Splinter of Ambition. A large amount of Investiture given sentience, thus becoming a very large, powerful, and dangerous shade that withers and consumes everything in its path.

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On 2/12/2018 at 2:46 PM, Storms! said:

There's a WoB somewhere that basically says that a Shard can leave an invested planet in 2 ways: 1) slowly divest and leave whole, or 2) rip itself away and abandon any Investiture not divested.

If I remember correctly, Odium and Ambition started fighting on Threnody, then the fight finished out in space. My theory is that Ambition tried to flee and had to use option 2 to escape, leaving a chunk of itself that it didn't have time to reclaim. That chunk/Splinter became The Evil

I think you have sold me on this theory!

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