imriel452 Posted November 15, 2017 Report Share Posted November 15, 2017 In page 789 of the American Version, Hoid-as-Wit and Shallan are discussing the story of 'The Girl who Looked Up', with Hoid-as-Wit stating that "It's a story from long ago...things were different in that time." However, when Shallan creates the Illusion, he says "...it's not dark enough" (page 790), with the illusion "leaving them standing in the darkness of night, lit only by a frail set of stars." Hoid then goes on to say that people still had to live, even without light, living, farming and eating in the darkness, except for the one girl who wanted to find out the answers about the wall, and eventually climbing the wall to find that on the other side was "God's Light" (page 792), and that she sneaked up to the Light, and she brought it back with her. "To the other side. To the...to the land of shadows..." according to Shallan. This sounds very similar to the story of Khriss in White Sand, the ever inquisitive girl who goes from the Darkside to Dayside in her quest to find the Sand Masters, and to those who have read White Sand Prime, we know that she takes Sand back with her to Darkside at the end of the book. What d'y'all think? Am i clutching at straws here? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiquegeek Posted November 15, 2017 Report Share Posted November 15, 2017 I think it's about humans settling in Shinovar when they first came to Roshar, which we know is protected from the storms by a mountain range that probably is signified by the wall in this story. Us finding out we are monsters would be the secret that broke the Knights Radiant. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan Posted November 15, 2017 Report Share Posted November 15, 2017 I think you are clutching at straws haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Snow Posted November 15, 2017 Report Share Posted November 15, 2017 When Shallan told the story for the first time my first thought was Dayside/Darkside, but I discarded that theory by the end of the book since I couldn't find anything to back it up. Hoid did have that jar of invested sand, but other than that, meh. It could be, but I doubt it at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowmancer Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 What if she was climbing the Horneater Peaks in Shadesmar to Cultivation's Perpendicularities, and this is a record of the First Desolation when humans entered Roshar? The no light idea makes more sense that way to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 The Light is metaphorical and represents connection to and favour from Honor and the Spren, IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 They are resonant stories though. Are the necessarily tied together, no, but I love the similarities we can see in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowmancer Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 22 hours ago, IndigoAjah said: The Light is metaphorical and represents connection to and favour from Honor and the Spren, IMO So could this be the story of where the humans first connected to Honor and began bonding spren? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Shadowmancer said: So could this be the story of where the humans first connected to Honor and began bonding spren? Yes, whilst channeling the idea of stealing Fire, metaphorically showing the self determination of humanity for better and for worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) One thing that blows me away about this is that the story was written by someone of Christian (ish) faith. This story has huge parallels to the doctrine of Original Sin (and other greek/world examples), but the discussion is about how such a sin was necessary and just. I don't know much about the beliefs of Brandon's branch of faith, but this story does not read like a Catholic's (something I am more familiar with) understanding of Original SIn. This story seemed to be the most inspired bit of writing in the series; the two-beat reveal of the story and its telling was also exceptionally well done. I would love to sit down with Brandon and parse out how much of this was the author just telling a story from a believable-world perspective, and how much of this story was his personal interpretations bleeding through I have read quotes of Brandon saying he leans on the liberal side of things, and I am now very curious about where forbidden knowledge sits in his personal understanding of religion and ethics. (I am agnostic, but with philosophy as a devoterie) Edited November 20, 2017 by teknopathetic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emailanimal Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 4 hours ago, teknopathetic said: This story has huge parallels to the doctrine of Original Sin It has even bigger parallels to the story of Promethius bringing fire to humans. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morsk Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 9 hours ago, teknopathetic said: One thing that blows me away about this is that the story was written by someone of Christian (ish) faith. This story has huge parallels to the doctrine of Original Sin (and other greek/world examples), but the discussion is about how such a sin was necessary and just. I don't know much about the beliefs of Brandon's branch of faith, but this story does not read like a Catholic's (something I am more familiar with) understanding of Original SIn. I think this is normal for LDS, Brandon's religion. I've only read about it, but it has more positive views of The Fall, either that it was supposed to happen, or that some of the consequences were good and had to happen anyway, etc. This might be a good summary... I mean, it's from lds.org so it can't be that off. I hope. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 I am pretty sure this is the story of Hoid stealing Adonalsium prior to the Shattering of Adonalsium. When this is first told as the girl who looked up, the little girl's hair changes to white during the ascent of the wall. Also, in the letter epigraph to Hoid from Chapter 42, Consequences we have the following: Quote Cephandrius, bearer of the First Gem, You must know better than to approach us by relying upon presumption of past relationship. The key part there is Bearer of the First Gem. At the book signing in Beaverton Oregon, I asked Brandon the following question: "Is Hoid really the Girl Who Looked Up?" (at this point Brandon looked up, with a somewhat shocked expression) "Is this the story of the shattering of Adonalsium? Did the ones who broke the god into shards do so to investigate the constituent components of Divinity? Like how in Oathbringer we find that Odium is not wholly bad, he is also the source of Passion, and how if the world were ruled by Honor alone it would be barren of emotion?" He said that this was on the right track, but not exactly right. I didn't record the audio of this (I wanted a picture with Brandon), so this doesn't have the weight of an official WoB, but I am pretty sure from his reaction that the Girl Who Looked Up story directly relates to Hoid stealing the First Gem, which was Adonalsium incarnate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morsk Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said: I am pretty sure this is the story of Hoid stealing Adonalsium prior to the Shattering of Adonalsium. I agree, especially because of the Original Sin parallel that I didn't notice myself, haha. That would make it a bit too important to be a Roshar story. Also it's one thing to say that humans committing Original Sin was part of God's plan, another thing entirely to say that human colonists displacing natives was all for the best in the end. I don't Hoid would mean the latter. edit: Er, I should say I agree it's Hoid stealing a little piece of Adonalsium, that went on to inspire whatever conflict happened afterwards, with people thinking big about stealing the whole thing. But I don't think Adonalsium is going to fit in a single gem a person can wear. Edited November 21, 2017 by Morsk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmereAvair Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 Did Hoid have white hair originally though? cause back when Shallan tells the story in Urithru is shocked when her illusion has white hair all of a sudden. I think it could be connected to the royal family in war breaker and could even be hinting at something about the Iriali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 (edited) I was thinking that the Girl Who Looked Up the was Herald of the Lightweavers, since she is depicted as silver-haired in the artistry. Edited November 22, 2017 by teknopathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormlightning Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 On 11/22/2017 at 11:20 AM, teknopathetic said: I was thinking that the Girl Who Looked Up the was Herald of the Lightweavers, since she is depicted as silver-haired in the artistry. I think you're right on. I think The Girl Who Looked Up was Ash, and that she traveled over the mountains of Shinovar, where they'd settled, and perhaps was the one who brought stormlight (and thus powers) to her people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avacairen Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) On 21.11.2017 at 6:44 PM, CosmereAvair said: Did Hoid have white hair originally though? cause back when Shallan tells the story in Urithru is shocked when her illusion has white hair all of a sudden. I think it could be connected to the royal family in war breaker and could even be hinting at something about the Iriali. I can recall that in SH when Hoid encountered Kelsier in the CR at the Well of Ascension he was described as having white hair. Don't know if this is due to him being in the CR though. Edited December 11, 2017 by avacairen Typo 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 @avacairen welcome to the shard! Have some cookies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 I think the girl who looked up was a Parshendi prior to the arrival of Honor and Cultivation on Roshar. Gods light that she stole was Uncle Andy investiture. Uncle Andy then created the high storms to chase her back home which in turn brought Stormlight to Roshar. Her and her people lived in darkness (no Stormlight), now they live in the [Storm]light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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