[OB] Adolin-Shallan-Kaladin Discussion

[insert_anagram_here]

Well if Evi is Shallan and Dalinar is Adolin and Navani is Kaladin, we end up with Kadolin and everyone wins! xD

[Guest]

@GoddessIMHO

Shallan definitely gets manipulated psychologically.

When she made that perfect sketch of Kaladin during the meeting and Jasnah notices, Jasnah heavily guilt-trips her. 

Quote

Jasnah sighed softly, opening up the sketchpad again. “Shallan,” she said in a strangely . . . comforting tone. “I’m impressed. I am impressed, truly. But what I’ve heard of you recently is troubling. You’ve ingratiated yourself with my family, and made good on the causal betrothal to Adolin. Yet here you are with wandering eyes, as this sketch testifies.”

It is basically telling her, that she should remember her place, remember what she could lose and that marrying Adolin will be required to remain in Jasnahs (and the Kholin's) favor. And it has an effect. She pushes off any feelings she had for Kaladin to Veil.

Same goes for how Navani is trying to push Shallan into marrying Adolin quickly under the pre-tense of "stability". Which also has an effect on Shallan, because that is exactly why she chooses Adolin in the end.

Bottom line is, the Kholins (well, Navani and Jasnah) are obviously trying to bring Shallan into the family and fast, because she is now a person with power and are using manipulation to reach that goal. Especially Jasnah's guilt-trip is just disgusting.

[Ailvara]

6 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Bottom line is, the Kholins (well, Navani and Jasnah) are obviously trying to bring Shallan into the family and fast, because she is now a person with power and are using manipulation to reach that goal. Especially Jasnah's guilt-trip is just disgusting.

I mostly agree with what you've said, but I don't believe either Navani or Jasnah did anything in bad faith. Navani has no idea of Shallan's internal struggles, she only knows she agreed to the causal and seemed quite happy ever since. Jasnah has some insight, but on the other hand, she is a creature of reason and I think she genuinely believes Adolin is alright for Shallan while at the same time, her knowledge of Shallan's dilemmas is insufficient and she is ignoring her deeper feelings and dilemmas as something she considers a passing and unreasonable fancy. It's the same as with Adolin, really. He wants the best even if accidentally stabilizing Shallan's fracturing.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Ailvara said:

I mostly agree with what you've said, but I don't believe either Navani or Jasnah did anything in bad faith. Navani has no idea of Shallan's internal struggles, she only knows she agreed to the causal and seemed quite happy ever since. Jasnah has some insight, but on the other hand, she is a creature of reason and I think she genuinely believes Adolin is alright for Shallan while at the same time, her knowledge of Shallan's dilemmas is insufficient and she is ignoring her deeper feelings and dilemmas as something she considers a passing and unreasonable fancy. It's the same as with Adolin, really. He wants the best even if accidentally stabilizing Shallan's fracturing.

Navani maybe. Still, this heavy attempt at persuasion is kind of manipulative.

Jasnah playing at Shallan's guilt, for having "wandering eyes", is a definite manipulative move, regardless of Shallan's mental state. I refuse to believe, that there are no ulterior motives and she only had Shallan's best interests in mind. The whole conversation is basically this: Yes, Shallan you are now a Radiant, but are still just a child and my ward, so do as I say. Conversation over.

[Ailvara]

5 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Navani maybe. Still, this heavy attempt at persuasion is kind of manipulative.

Jasnah playing at Shallan's guilt, for having "wandering eyes", is a definite manipulative move, regardless of Shallan's mental state. I refuse to believe, that there are no ulterior motives and she only had Shallan's best interests in mind. The whole conversation is basically this: Yes, Shallan you are now a Radiant, but are still just a child and my ward, so do as I say. Conversation over.

The thing is, I don't think she talks all about her betrothal there. She is more unhappy about Shallan neglecting her ward's duties and she seems to think, that stability with Adolin would help her with that. And being the kind of person she is, I think she actually believes creating a proper environment for pursuing serious activities is in the best interest of Shallan and romance plays a serving role in this respect. I'd use such a litmus paper here: if Jasnah was in the place of Shallan (as she knows it), what would she rather do? Follow her desire for passionate eyes and let herself be distracted, or choose a good, non-disturbing guy who gives her position and resources and go on doing her duty?

The same goes for Navani, really; she doesn't know any reason for Shallan not to marry and she is not one to wait needlessly herself. As for Jasnah's hidden motives, she can't marry off all the new radiants to her family, and Shallan is already quite bound to her as it is. Basically, I see both her and Navani's attitude as one of the concerned mothers rather than manipulating politicians. They're horribly wrong, but that's what mothers sometimes are.

[Info_Drone-0451]

25 minutes ago, Ailvara said:

I mostly agree with what you've said, but I don't believe either Navani or Jasnah did anything in bad faith. Navani has no idea of Shallan's internal struggles, she only knows she agreed to the causal and seemed quite happy ever since. Jasnah has some insight, but on the other hand, she is a creature of reason and I think she genuinely believes Adolin is alright for Shallan while at the same time, her knowledge of Shallan's dilemmas is insufficient and she is ignoring her deeper feelings and dilemmas as something she considers a passing and unreasonable fancy. It's the same as with Adolin, really. He wants the best even if accidentally stabilizing Shallan's fracturing.

16 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Navani maybe. Still, this heavy attempt at persuasion is kind of manipulative.

Jasnah playing at Shallan's guilt, for having "wandering eyes", is a definite manipulative move, regardless of Shallan's mental state. I refuse to believe, that there are no ulterior motives and she only had Shallan's best interests in mind. The whole conversation is basically this: Yes, Shallan you are now a Radiant, but are still just a child and my ward, so do as I say. Conversation over.

It could be both, couldn't it? Jasnah has some ulterior motive, seeing the marriage she arranged come to fruition and rip the benefits perhaps, but she could still care for Shallan and thinks her cousin is perfect for her. Her attempt to set her straight as it it did could be an attempt at tough love from Jasnah's part, and it fits with her character. She can some times be heavy-handed, like with the muggers in Kharbranth, and it was a bit of chiding to set her ward straight and prevent her in making a bad decision, in her opinion. 

As for Navani... I think a large part of her just wants to see Adolin married and thinks Shallan is good for him but has barely any insight about her. So she sees two people that fit together, superficially at least, and it's perfectly natural for her to push for the marriage.

It's pressure put on Shallan though, even if it's well meaning.

 

[Dreamstorm]

4 hours ago, GoddessIMHO said:

I feel the need to bring up the 'arranged' marriage again. Neither Navani nor Shallan was really forced into their marriages. Shallan was eager when Jasnah suggested it.  I don't know how Navani was selected but she was clearly able to decide which brother to marry.  I suspect her marriage likely had some political advantage for bringing her family in on the side of the Kholins just as Evi brought the plate.  Evi was there looking for a possible marriage to find protection for her and her brother. 

Just because an Alethi woman didn't marry for love it doesn't mean she might not have wanted the match . I just remembered that Jasnah was asked to marry Amaram and she was able to refuse even though Gavilar,  her father and her king, wanted it. The women in Alethkar had at least some power of choice.

It’s in how you define an arranged marriage. I would define it as a marriage which was conceived by a third party based on factors other than the emotional connection of the two marriage participants. I think the “pattern” we see in Brandon’s books is that two characters are put together for non-emotional reasons (family connections, money, protection, political alliances) and then through the course of the story, the two characters always fall in love and live happily ever after. Within that construct, there is a wide variety of how much agency either party (and most crucially the woman) has in actually having to go through with the marriage. For Suri and Sesebron, Suri had zero agency as she was for all extents and purposes forced to enter into the marriage. (I think that was the metric you were considering, one of zero agency.) For Wax and Steris, they were set up for political/monetary reasons and Steris could have bailed on the marriage. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t arranged; it just means it was less coercive. When looking at coercion you have to look at the society in which the woman is operating in; is rejecting the marriage really a choice or is that a false choice? Steris probably had a decent bit of power as her family had the money in the circumstance, but considering her “undesirability” and her father’s ambitions, she was highly motivated to make the marriage work regardless of her emotional feelings. Now obviously she fell in love. Because that’s what Brandon always has happen. (Which is why it bugs people.)

Relating this to Jasnah and Navani... We don’t know enough about the circumstances of Navani’s marriage to Gavilar to know if it was arranged. Navani seems to have had some agency in making her choice, though without knowing more of her circumstances, it’s hard to know how much agency she actually had (or even if anyone besides Navani herself set up the marriage.) For Jasnah, she was in a position of power being the king’s daughter - she didn’t need to marry for monetary or political reasons - but she is and was targeted by various members of society for not conforming to society’s rules, and one of those rules she didn’t conform to was her choice to remain unmarried. So she suffered consequences for her choice to not marry, and even if she was willing to embrace, and even exploit, those consequences, the very fact she faced consequences for her decision in how she was perceived by Alethi society emphasizes the coercion women face in that society to conform and marry. 

Regarding Shallan, she was raised to expect she would be a pawn in her father’s political games; she never expected to have agency in her choice. (See quotes below where this is made explicit in a flashback and where she notes the same to Jasnah after being setup with Adolin.) So of course she’s happy the choice selected for her is a young handsome prince. The Brandon trope which is being fulfilled here is not that she was dragged to the alter kicking and screaming, but that someone else set her up in a marriage for reasons other than her emotional connection to other party, in a society where women were generally used as pawns by men (and their marriages being part of that appropriation), and even with that coercive setup, she ended up in love with her prescribed “match”. (We can obviously debate how “in love” she really is, but this is taking what Shallan says at face value.) So the issue people have with this is not that we have forced marriages, but that Brandon seems to present (for our MCs at least) this rosey portrait of marriages which do not involve an emotional conception and involve varying levels of coercion. (The bright spot in all this is Mistborn 1 where we see all sorts of marriages which resulted from the characters forming emotional connections before a marriage is even considered.)

Quote

“You are coming to an age where you must act more like a lady,” Father said. The darkeyes gave them plenty of room, bowing as her father passed. Two of Father’s ardents trailed after them, hands behind their backs, contemplative. “You will need to stop gawking so often. It will not be long before we will want to find a husband for you.”

“Yes, Father,” she said.

[...]

“I don’t know where he went,” Balat said. “He met some people right after we arrived.” He looked toward the distant stream that ran down from the heights and through a channel around the fairgrounds. “What do I say to her?”

“How should I know?”

“You’re a woman too.”

“I’m fourteen!” She wouldn’t spend time courting, anyway. Father would choose her a husband. His only daughter was too precious to be wasted on something fickle, like her own powers of decision.

WoR, Ch. 45, Middlefest

Quote

Jasnah relaxed visibly. “Yes, well, it did seem a workable solution. I had wondered, however, if you’d be offended.”

“Why on the winds would I be offended?”

“Because of the restriction of freedom implicit in a marriage,” Jasnah said. “And if not that, because the offer was made without consulting you. I had to see if the possibility was even open first. It has proceeded further than I’d expected, as my mother has seized on the idea. Navani has . . . a tendency toward the overwhelming.”

Shallan had trouble imagining anyone overwhelming Jasnah. “Stormfather! You’re worried I’d be offended? Brightness, I spent my entire life locked in my father’s manor—I grew up assuming he’d pick my husband.”

WoR, Ch. 1, Santhid

Btw, the article you linked to on divorce above touches on some of these issues of female agency, and I have thoughts on that but haven’t had much time to post. Will try and do so tomorrow! 

[Guest]

@DimChatz @Ailvara

Alright, I've now finished my last pre-christmas chores (I really should know better than go grocery shopping on the 23rd  ), I can fully involve myself in internet discussions again

Preface: I don't think Jasnah doesn't care about Shallan or is (completely) heartless, but I also think, that she very much cares about her family and always wants to strengthen their position. So she natually wants Shallan to marry Adolin, even if it wouldn't be necessary for the wardship, to bring power into her family.

Navani... I can see your arguments being right. She probably just wants Adolin to finally get married off.

Jasnah... I'm just disgusted by how she uses guilt tripping to put Shallan in her place again. She is trying to be more sympathetic in the conversation, but in the end just shows how she wanted to assert who's in charge again and that was that. This includes how Shallan isn't allowed to have "wandering eyes" for Kaladin, because Jasnah said so by arranging the causal, which doesn't seem that causal to me anymore, when looking at Jasnah repremanding Shallan, betrothal. In a way, she takes on the role of Shallan's father in that. I have no text evidence, that Shallan sees it the same, except by what @Dreamstorm quoted, though.

The point is, that even if Jasnah's main goal wasn't to reassert Shallan's willingness to fully commit to Adolin, she still used a psychologically manipulative technique, which is something, that I have to file away as forcing or coercive. And this is regardless of Shallan's mental state. Guilt tripping is a general problem.

[Reborn radiant]

I am going to be so pissed if this isn't resolved already. I mean come on, the shadolin vs shalladin thing was easily something i hated THE MOST after WoR while waiting for oathbringer. The love triangle just doesn't fit in stormlight for me. I know it's my personal taste, but I mean come on! 

Please, I seriously hope this whole thing doesn't pick up again in the next book. We have LOT more interesting things to focus on.

[Info_Drone-0451]

13 minutes ago, Reborn radiant said:

I am going to be so pissed if this isn't resolved already. I mean come on, the shadolin vs shalladin thing was easily something i hated THE MOST after WoR while waiting for oathbringer. The love triangle just doesn't fit in stormlight for me. I know it's my personal taste, but I mean come on!

Would you rather have an unsatisfying conclusion just to have it done? Would that make the books better? Ignore all obvious set up, which will make it pointless and a waste, does that make for good wrtting? Even if it is sloppy and lazy writting, which I obviously think it isn't and it's intentional misdirection, shouldn't it be criticised in the hopes that it's imrpoved?

13 minutes ago, Reborn radiant said:

Please, I seriously hope this whole thing doesn't pick up again in the next book. We have LOT more interesting things to focus on.

I disagree. Romantic plotlines are an interesting part of the plot and the characters progression. It the part that people identify the most with and can understand the most. It's quite obvious that people want to talk about it, so there must be a reason behind it it.

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by DimChatz

[Darvys]

11 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Jasnah... I'm just disgusted by how she uses guilt tripping to put Shallan in her place again.

We have more than 60 pages of people criticizing Shallan's behavior, and you find it disgusting that Jasnah would do the same ? We know from Jasnah's pov that her objective is not to have Shallan fall in line but to make her strong enough to master her circumstances, which we know for a fact she's not quite capable of.

The way i see it, with that specific line, she's not forcing her into the marriage, she's pointing out that she can't have it both ways, using the betrothal to have access to the Kholins and their ressources and then go about fantasizing about any passing soldier, which would end up hurting Adolin's reputation.

 

There's another thing i wanted to comment on, back when you guys were discussing Adolin's perspective, someone brought up the scene in Celebrant where he decides to go with Kaladin instead of Shallan, this is either an oddity as it was described, or it's aligned with Adolin's toughtfulness as he had his betrothed go with the only person in their company who was armed. Don't know how serious that discussion was, but felt like posting my interpretation anyway.

[Reborn radiant]

1 minute ago, DimChatz said:

I disagree. Romantic plotlines are an interesting part of the plot and the characters progression. It the part that people identify the most with and can understand the most. It's quite obvious that people want to talk about it, so there must be a reason behind it it.

It was my personal taste. I said so directly just in the line above it. 
 

 

2 minutes ago, DimChatz said:

Would you rather have an unsatisfying conclusion just to have it done? Would that make the books better? Ignore all obvious set up, which will make it pointless and a waste, does that make for good wrtting? Even if it is sloppy and lazy writting, which I obviously think it isn't and it's intentional misdirection, shouldn't it be criticised in the hopes that it's imrpoved?

It wasn't an unsatisfying conclusion to me, thank you very much. When did I ever say it shouldn't be criticized? Did I tell there that the resolution was perfect and that no one should even talk about it? I just said I hope it's done. With the emphasis being on "I hope".

Will it make the next book better to focus on a love traingle when there are tons of things happening all around? I honestly don't think so.  I really don't care about whether or not there are a lot of people who care about it, I just don't and that is why I said it's my personal taste. Thanks.

 

[TheWarriorPoet]

23 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Jasnah... I'm just disgusted by how she uses guilt tripping to put Shallan in her place again. She is trying to be more sympathetic in the conversation, but in the end just shows how she wanted to assert who's in charge again and that was that. This includes how Shallan isn't allowed to have "wandering eyes" for Kaladin, because Jasnah said so by arranging the causal, which doesn't seem that causal to me anymore, when looking at Jasnah repremanding Shallan, betrothal. In a way, she takes on the role of Shallan's father in that. I have no text evidence, that Shallan sees it the same, except by what @Dreamstorm quoted, though.

Hi,

Just why is it disgusting? Just for once forget that Shallan is a Radiant and Jashnah is a princess. Let's see this as "Your brother's betrothal is eyeing someone else, would you not tell her the same thing?" I guess it can be expected from any sister. 

 

2 hours ago, SLNC said:

Bottom line is, the Kholins (well, Navani and Jasnah) are obviously trying to bring Shallan into the family and fast, because she is now a person with power and are using manipulation to reach that goal. Especially Jasnah's guilt-trip is just disgusting.

As for Kholin's wanting to keep the radiants in the family, well they already have 3 including the Bondsmith, they really don't need shallan to make their family powerful, in current roshar they are power. 

At this point Roshar have 2 factions one is lead by ODIUM and other is led by DALINAR, he at present is bigger power then any radiant or even Herald for that matter.

 

Maybe, just maybe we are reading too much between the lines while it is just a simple thing. Kaladin's character is made for bigger things, maybe he is too important to be in such petty feuds 

[Info_Drone-0451]

6 minutes ago, Reborn radiant said:

Will it make the next book better to focus on a love traingle when there are tons of things happening all around?

I didn't say it should focus on the triangle, which is resolved for the time being. But there're obvious flaws in the resolution, and for these to be ignored would not do at all. They could be adressed along with the things you, and I as well, find important. Just because  a plotline involves romance doesn't make it less important. But that's your personal opinion and I'm glad you chose to express it. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by DimChatz

[TheWarriorPoet]

This whole topic reminded me of a dialogue from G.I. Joe

"The world is about to end, and we are still fighting over the girl"

Seriously, this story have much more to offer then the love story, lets focus on those things. We will know who will get the girl at the end anyways 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Darvys said:

We have more than 60 pages of people criticizing Shallan's behavior, and you find it disgusting that Jasnah would do the same ?

While I don't think, that Shallan is a saint, I don't see how Shallan ever guilt tripped anyone.

29 minutes ago, Darvys said:

We know from Jasnah's pov that her objective is not to have Shallan fall in line but to make her strong enough to master her circumstances, which we know for a fact she's not quite capable of.

But for that she needs Shallan to fall in line first and so she does exactly that.

Quote

The way i see it, with that specific line, she's not forcing her into the marriage, she's pointing out that she can't have it both ways, using the betrothal to have access to the Kholins and their ressources and then go about fantasizing about any passing soldier, which would end up hurting Adolin's reputation.

And I see it differently. By making Shallan fall back into line and making Shallan feel guilty, she is coercive, but I'm tired of repeating myself, so let's just agree to disagree.

And I honestly don't believe, that Dalinar would have pushed away Shallan, if she had chosen to not marry Adolin. She's too important for that now. Hell, even Kaladin has access to all the resources he needs and he isn't in a causal betrothal with Jasnah, for instance.

22 minutes ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

As for Kholin's wanting to keep the radiants in the family, well they already have 3 including the Bondsmith, they really don't need shallan to make their family powerful, in current roshar they are power. 

At this point Roshar have 2 factions one is lead by ODIUM and other is led by DALINAR, he at present is bigger power then any radiant or even Herald for that matter.

The internal power struggles won't be gone, just because there is a larger threat. It is stupid, yes, but humans are stupid. It is always good to form powerful alliances (even through marriage) and to keep your family having the advantage.

10 minutes ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

Seriously, this story have much more to offer then the love story, lets focus on those things. We will know who will get the girl at the end anyways 

Please don't tell me what I should focus on. I don't try to tell you that either. I just find interpersonal relationships between characters much more interesting, than another rehashed argument about realmatics, but I know that some others enjoy it, so I let them enjoy it.

Edited December 23, 2017 by SLNC

[Info_Drone-0451]

2 minutes ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

Seriously, this story have much more to offer then the love story, lets focus on those things. We will know who will get the girl at the end anyways 

There are ohter threads who focus on these stuff. Most threads, actually. This one was created with the purpose to discuss the triangle as suggested by the title. And yes, there're other important and big stuff happenung. Does that make this romantic plotline less important? It's linked heavily with the characters, and their progression, that take part in those events. 

[TheWarriorPoet]

1 minute ago, SLNC said:

The internal power struggles won't be gone, just because there is a larger threat. It is stupid, yes, but humans are stupid. It is always good to form powerful alliances (even through marriage) and to keep your family having the advantage.

By that logic, why Jasnah is not going honey eyed over Kaladin, he is bigger power then Shallan, probably second after dalinar, so if Jasnah is trying to form alliance through marriage, her obvious target would be to marry Kaladin 

[Guest]

Just now, TheWarriorPoet said:

By that logic, why Jasnah is not going honey eyed over Kaladin, he is bigger power then Shallan, probably second after dalinar, so if Jasnah is trying to form alliance through marriage, her obvious target would be to marry Kaladin 

Why should she? Jasnah treasures her agency, but I wouldn't have been surprised, if she would have tried to pair a daughter of the Kholins with Kaladin. If a daughter like this existed.

Besides, Kaladin already is stupidly loyal to Dalinar and Jasnah knows that.

[TheWarriorPoet]

4 hours ago, DimChatz said:

There are ohter threads who focus on these stuff. Most threads, actually. This one was created with the purpose to discuss the triangle as suggested by the title. And yes, there're other important and big stuff happenung. Does that make this romantic plotline less important? It's linked heavily with the characters, and their progression, that take part in those events.

It is important since it involves three main characters, but maybe we are reading too much into this. Perhaps we should ask HOID to visit this forum and guide us in the right direction

 

4 hours ago, SLNC said:

Why should she? Jasnah treasures her agency, but I wouldn't have been surprised, if she would have tried to pair a daughter of the Kholins with Kaladin. If a daughter like this existed.

Besides, Kaladin already is stupidly loyal to Dalinar and Jasnah knows that.

I don't think that OB have anything to do with this. Jasnah knew Shallan is a surgebinder, that's why she arranged the betrothal at first place. I still think that Jasnah's manipulations  are more about her nature of seeing herself as superior and not about marrying shallan for the purpose of gaining power 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

Jasnah knew Shallan is a surgebinder, that's why she arranged the betrothal at first place.

Okay, so Jasnah has a motive for getting Shallan to pull through with the marriage, because she is now a person of power (= surgebinder).

Quote

I still think that Jasnah's manipulations  are more about her nature of seeing herself as superior and not about marrying shallan for the purpose of gaining power 

... but her guilt trip doesn't have anything to do with it? Of course, it is also about reasserting herself as Shallan's superior, but this also involves reasserting, that Shallan isn't allowed to have wandering eyes, even if she technically is, since the betrothal is by no means final.

You're contradicting yourself.

[insert_anagram_here]

I admire Jasnah for what she is, raw rationality in political power, but I'm under the impression that Jasnah knew that Shallan was possibly a Knights Radiant, and that's exactly why she created the betrothal to Adolin in the first place, in order to draw that power into the Kholin family and promote their political interests. After all she is sister to the King at that point, I'm sure she would clearly care more about her immediate family than a cousin. Here is the extract from location 729, Words of Radiance.

Quote

“Stormfather,” Shallan said, feeling her legs go weak. “He’s heir to a princedom! He’s in line to the throne of Alethkar itself!”

“Third in line,” Jasnah said, “behind my brother’s infant son and Dalinar, my uncle.”

“Brightness, I have to ask. Why Adolin? Why not the younger son? I—I have nothing to offer Adolin, or the house.”

“On the contrary,” Jasnah said, “if you are what I think you are, then you will be able to offer him something nobody else can. Something more important than riches.”

“What is it you think that I am?” Shallan whispered, meeting the older woman’s eyes, finally asking the question that she hadn’t dared.

“Right now, you are but a promise,” Jasnah said. “A chrysalis with the potential for grandeur inside. When once humans and spren bonded, the results were women who danced in the skies and men who could destroy the stones with a touch.”

“The Lost Radiants. Traitors to mankind.” She couldn’t absorb it all. 

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by insert_anagram_here
typos

[TheWarriorPoet]

5 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Okay, so Jasnah has a motive for getting Shallan to pull through with the marriage, because she is now a person of power (= surgebinder).

This is in reference to first book, Jasnah already knew shallan to be a surgebinder. So events in Book 2 and 3 had not effected that decision in way.

 

9 minutes ago, SLNC said:

... but her guilt trip doesn't have anything to do with it? Of course, it is also about reasserting herself as Shallan's superior, but this also involves reasserting, that Shallan isn't allowed to have wandering eyes, even if she technically is, since the betrothal is by no means final.

Why is it about her marriage, let's see it as per the situation. We are in a meeting, she gave her ward a task to take notes (which shallan hadn't denied) so is it not acceptable for her to reprimand her when she is drawing sketches instead of doing her work?

 

Well we are talking about a love triangle, everyone is contradicting everyone else. I might be doing it to myself unknowingly  

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

so is it not acceptable for her to reprimand her when she is drawing sketches instead of doing her work?

It is, but there was more than just that.

I'm going to take a break from this. See you all later.

[insert_anagram_here]

12 minutes ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

is it not acceptable for her to reprimand her when she is drawing sketches instead of doing her work?

Well, it wasn't exactly just a reprimand for drawing instead of taking notes, she clearly guilt tripped her into stopping her wandering eyes. But I do not see that as out of character for Jasnah, of course she would care about her family's political influence more than her ward's infatuation with someone. And I believe that's exactly what happened here, but maybe she just masked it as 'a word of advice' to Shallan. Anything else, I think, is thinking too much into it.