• Announcements

    • Chaos

      Oathbringer Spoiler Policy   11/13/2017

      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
      Part 2 Reactions
      Part 3 Reactions
      Part 4 Reactions
      Full Book Reactions For parts 1-4, they will not include the interludes immediately following it. On Discord All Oathbringer spoilers on Discord will be exclusively in the #oathbringer_spoilers channel for the nine month spoiler period and nowhere else.
Pezhistory

What if Dalinar becomes...

26 posts in this topic

To Honor what Sazed is to Harmony?

what if having bonded with what is left of the Almighty and then uniting them alll reconstitutes Honor.  Was honor hiding this  whole time and not really dead? (Hearts of men). 

What if IHonor knew it would be defeated by Odiom and chose a strategic retreat? What if this was the plan? What if odium is trapped because of something Honor did that was part of the retreat?

 

Taravangian is trying to unite them without honor(his methods and tactics). Dalinar is doing it right. That will matter in the end.  

 

Hope that makes sense  I am sure this has been brought up before, but needed to write it down  

Need to go read Oathbringer....

Edited by Pezhistory
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not that easy, because Honor is shattered.

But yeah, probably a good idea to read Oathbringer first. It's about Dalinar, after all.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ummm... Honor is dead. He has been shattered. With Preservation, Preservation was not actually killed. His power was taken back up and was not destroyed. The Stormfather isn't exactly Honor, just a cognitive shadow. I mean... Sanderson said that there is a way to undo shattering (right? I heard that somewhere) So perhaps. But as it is, with his power being dispelled, Dalinar can't quite become his vessel.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I couldn't talk about this without talking about Oathbringer. Here are my (very spoilery) thoughts on the matter.

Also, Brandon has indeed said that there is a way to undo shattering.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for responding without Oathbringer spoilers.  Excited to read it   

Good to know about the words of Brandon

So, what exactly does it take to become a vessel of a shard ala Sazed? Is there criteria.?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Pezhistory said:

So, what exactly does it take to become a vessel of a shard ala Sazed? Is there criteria.?

 

So far, there are theories about reconstructing shards, but other than that, you have to have a connection to a vessel-less shard (ergo one where the vessel is dead) that also hasn't developed sapience, then absorb it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/14/2017 at 11:02 PM, Brightlord Maelstrom said:

you have to have a connection to a vessel-less shard

I've been theorizing(mostly because of Odium) that you could overcome this "connection issue" by being sufficiently Invested. Rayse doesn't seem the type to be connected to things like Honor or Devotion, but Brandon has always said that he "doesn't want to" pick up other Shards, not that he can't. I don't have any real evidence beyond the wording of that WoB and my intuition, but it's a little theory of mine.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

I've been theorizing(mostly because of Odium) that you could overcome this "connection issue" by being sufficiently Invested. Rayse doesn't seem the type to be connected to things like Honor or Devotion, but Brandon has always said that he "doesn't want to" pick up other Shards, not that he can't. I don't have any real evidence beyond the wording of that WoB and my intuition, but it's a little theory of mine.

Well, I'm going off of MBSH stuff, with their orb/contraption that gives you connection to Preservation. That had to do with Kelsier taking up Preservation. I highly suspect that many of the Realmatic laws that govern humans don't apply to Shards, and as such, their status as a Shard would either exempt them from the prerequisite of a connection or give them the connection.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there is definitely something to this theory, though. There are two bits of evidence that make me believe that Dalinar will become a Vessel for Honor:

OATHBRINGER SPOILERS

The first is:

Spoiler

OB Chapter 122 Odium says "Dalinar was not supposed to Ascend."

The capitalization of Ascend immediately makes me think of Malazan, where it basically means achieving godhood.

Secondly,

Spoiler

Dalinar is able to manifest Honor's perpendicularity at will. In MB, only Slivers or Vessels have been able to move Preservation's perpendicularity (right?). So the fact that Dalinar can manifest Honor's makes it seem like he is on track to be Honor's vessel, or at least a Sliver.

Basically, while I don't think he is currently holding Honor, I think that Dalinar is on a path that could lead to his becoming a Vessel.

Edited by Catladyman
spoiler tags
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/14/2017 at 5:23 AM, Pezhistory said:

What if IHonor knew it would be defeated by Odiom and chose a strategic retreat? What if this was the plan? What if odium is trapped because of something Honor did that was part of the retreat?

oh god i hope this isn't a thing

While the ending of mistborn was very well done, I want the characters of Stormlight to win or lose this war on their own, without divine intervention or some preordained plan by Honor.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, asterion137 said:

oh god i hope this isn't a thing

While the ending of mistborn was very well done, I want the characters of Stormlight to win or lose this war on their own, without divine intervention or some preordained plan by Honor.

Well this is hard the case where gods could foretell the future.

Actually Will be extremely stupid if Cultivation didn't set in long term plans aganist Odium.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spoilers: I don't know how to do the tags! Sorry. Skip over if you don't want to see it, please. 

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

I think Honor put some plans together upon realizing he was about to lose to Odium. The Stormfather seems to indicate Honor was losing a bit of his mind toward the end. I imagine he tried to play a long game, but in the end didn't have the capacity to play the long game like Cultivation. He put some desparate plans/stopgaps/advice in place and that's about it, it seems. So I wouldn't worry about this being a thing.

Re: Dalinar and "I am Unity."  

Im struggling with what that means. Sliver?...statement of confidence?...new...something? He Ascended, but what does that make Dalinar? New "lesser Shard?" That doesn't seem right at all. Was it only temporary? Seems so. It's never been done before, so the Stormfather says. And Unity was capatilized and used like it was his name...Fortune is not used that way. Struggling with this one.

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/21/2017 at 9:17 PM, asterion137 said:

oh god i hope this isn't a thing

While the ending of mistborn was very well done, I want the characters of Stormlight to win or lose this war on their own, without divine intervention or some preordained plan by Honor.

Well, we need to consider where the end of all this will go(Cosmere) .. Are the shards going to be reformed  into  Adonalsium or possibly u a new entity?  Is Harmony step one? I think we are going to have to see new shard combinations and thus vessels  

Odium, Ambition, etc- how does their story end? 

 

And of course- what does Hoid want?   

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plus, we have Cultivation in play - a shard skilled at sewing and reaping.

Oathbringer spoilers:

Spoiler

 

If there was ever a goddess who could take the corpse of a Shard, plant it in someone, and regrow its essence, it would be this Cultivation. Her entire skillset is based on growing better things out of the materials she has. Her magic system is gemstones that can trap essence and magic. Death is a gift to her. The death of Honour would be a huge boon to her power, one assumes.  

Cultivation took Odium's champion, bonsaid him a bit, and then let Dalinar flourish into an Ascended Unity (whatever the crem that means).  Nevermind what she has planned with Cultivated Food Radiant Lift and The Dark Pruner Terivangian. Cultivation hid for eons, and now she is out scythe in hand. Odium is afraid to strike because he isn't sure what she can do. And now Odium is exposed, having agreed to a duel of champions with Dalinar.

Side Note: Is Dalinar still Odium's champion, or is that void now? If Dalinar is the champion, what do we do? Kill him?

 

 

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see a couple problems with this theory, though.  First, Honor's splinters have already gained sentience.  There are hundreds or thousands of spren that are sentient that have bits of honor (in varying degrees) in them.  There's also the Stormfather, who is sentient and a large part of Honor's power.  In order to gather all of that power and reassemble the shard, wouldn't he have to essentially kill all of those sentient beings?  That doesn't seem like something Dalinar would do.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, RShara said:

I see a couple problems with this theory, though.  First, Honor's splinters have already gained sentience.  There are hundreds or thousands of spren that are sentient that have bits of honor (in varying degrees) in them.  There's also the Stormfather, who is sentient and a large part of Honor's power.  In order to gather all of that power and reassemble the shard, wouldn't he have to essentially kill all of those sentient beings?  That doesn't seem like something Dalinar would do.

Well, we don't need all of his power. After all, both the Stormfather and the spren existed before Honor was splintered. And Cultivation and Odium are both still alive, and yet they both also have spren. Come to think of it (HoA Spoilers)

Spoiler

Atium is also part of Ruin, and yet it existed without Ruin needing to die.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, finally finished OB.  I wanted to savor it.  

 

Spoiler

I still think this could be a thing, after all Mr Unity ascended and opened Honor’s perpendicularly.  There is a 3 realm connection there. Something is brewing

. . 

Edited by Pezhistory
Spoilers
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/21/2017 at 8:56 PM, Catladyman said:

I think there is definitely something to this theory, though. There are two bits of evidence that make me believe that Dalinar will become a Vessel for Honor:

OATHBRINGER SPOILERS

The first is:

  Hide contents

OB Chapter 122 Odium says "Dalinar was not supposed to Ascend."

The capitalization of Ascend immediately makes me think of Malazan, where it basically means achieving godhood.

Secondly,

  Hide contents

Dalinar is able to manifest Honor's perpendicularity at will. In MB, only Slivers or Vessels have been able to move Preservation's perpendicularity (right?). So the fact that Dalinar can manifest Honor's makes it seem like he is on track to be Honor's vessel, or at least a Sliver.

Basically, while I don't think he is currently holding Honor, I think that Dalinar is on a path that could lead to his becoming a Vessel.

Yes. Thank you for the specific”text evidence”

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Pezhistory said:

Okay, finally finished OB.

Still no OB spoilers allowed outside boxes

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is absolutely no way that the end of Stormlight will end with any combination of the below:

Dalinar taking up Honor

Dalinar!Honor fighting and killing Odium

Someone taking up Odium and/or Honor.

And here's why: It's been done before,  Brandon is waaay to tricky of an author, just to repeat the exact same ending all over again.  Yes, you can put all the spin on it you want, but he will 100% figure out a way to end the series in a way that's new.  Y'all are putting not nearly enough faith in him to actually think of two different endings.  

Remember, the end of HoA was foreshadowed a mile away, and apparently Brandon did the same with SA.  Unless you can find the clues in the first few pages (as he said they are), I'm not paying attention

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/21/2017 at 6:56 PM, Catladyman said:

I think there is definitely something to this theory, though. There are two bits of evidence that make me believe that Dalinar will become a Vessel for Honor:

OATHBRINGER SPOILERS

The first is:

  Hide contents

OB Chapter 122 Odium says "Dalinar was not supposed to Ascend."

The capitalization of Ascend immediately makes me think of Malazan, where it basically means achieving godhood.

Secondly,

  Hide contents

Dalinar is able to manifest Honor's perpendicularity at will. In MB, only Slivers or Vessels have been able to move Preservation's perpendicularity (right?). So the fact that Dalinar can manifest Honor's makes it seem like he is on track to be Honor's vessel, or at least a Sliver.

Basically, while I don't think he is currently holding Honor, I think that Dalinar is on a path that could lead to his becoming a Vessel.

Yeah, I agree with all of the above and am on board with this hypothesis. I would add to it that there are a couple more indicators in OB that suggest Honor, potentially foreseeing his impending demise, may have been making some back-up plans:
 

Quote
Spoiler

"This generation has had only one Bondsmith, and some blame the divisions among us upon this fact. The true problem is far deeper. I believe that Honor himself is changing."
24-18, smokestone

 

Odium says to Dalinar when they first meet:

Quote
Spoiler

You have been placed in a difficult position, my son. You are the first to bond the Stormfather in his current state. Did you know that? You are deeply connected to the remnants of a god...

Is that an offer to release me from my bonds, coming from the man holding the remnants of Honor’s name and power? ...

A man cannot serve two gods at once, Dalinar, and so, I cannot leave her behind. In fact, I cannot leave behind the Splinters of Honor, as I once thought I could. I can already see that going wrong. Once you release me, my transformation of this realm will be substantial.

 

I think all of this suggests that Honor purposefully imbued the Stormfather with a significant portion of his power before his death. Maybe Honor and Cultivation had a plan much like Preservation had one in Mistborn.

Edited by Aleph-Naught
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Raykoda said:

There is absolutely no way that the end of Stormlight will end with any combination of the below:

...And here's why: It's been done before...

I dunno man, I've never really liked that kind of reasoning, and it's way too common in arguments about authorial intent re: their stories. An author will, typically, write what best serves the story, even if it's a trope that has been employed before - and there's nothing to say that there couldn't be a twist to the familiar, there's more than one way to skin a cat, etc.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just thought of this.

What if Hoids talk with Dalinar about pulling someone apart chunk by bloody chunck, then put him back together would you call him balderdash... or something like that.

We all think he was talking about Uncle Andy.

What if Hoid was talking about Honor!!!

Phwaor!!!

Mic drop.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.