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46 posts in this topic

17 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Aren’t they the Sho Del? They aren’t very aquatic... good at jumping though! (We are allowed to discuss the Dragonsteel chapters on Brandon’s website, right?)

The Sho Del are mentioned in the released chapters? Is it the ones released because of the Shattered Plains?

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I am going to counter some of you. I think there may be valid reasons to believe that Bavadin wrote the first letter.  The key reason for this is the reference to the original agreement by the Shards of not settling together with each Shard claiming personal space. I see this as a very Autonomy thing to say and a very Autonomy argument to make.

 

On the other hand, letter two was sent to someone who was not reached, and Hoid gets a response from an entity/entities that use plural pronouns.  It is not impossible for Bavadin to refer to herself in plural (after all she has many faces), but where is Autonomy in that? I view Autonomy as a very individualistic Intent that would not choose to write about herself in plural.

 

My additional thought is that the author of the second letter is the whatever the new canon Shard/Shards is from Aether of Night. The basic reasoning goes as follows. There is a mention of aethers in the book.  The actual Aether of Night Shard situation is not clear because Ruin got moved to Mistborn, and what we saw in the novel is more like a fight between some "sub-Shards", but fairly large ones.  So, in my head, the theory goes that the new canon for that world is a Shard, not ruin anymore,  that has two Slivers, or alternatively, two Very Large Splinters, who are responsible for the atrocities in Aether of Night-the-book.  Hoid may have been trying to reach the original Shard, but instead is getting a reply from whoever is in its place now. Or perhaps, simply two Shards held by siblings.

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Reading the first letter, I get the strong impression that the Shard writing it is a new one associated with the ideas Pride or Majesty. Certain wording screams it to me:

  • Dearest Cephandrius,
    I received your communication, of course. (Ch 33)
  • I noticed its arrival immediately, just as I noticed your many intrusions into my lands. (Ch 34)
  • You think yourself so clever, but my eyes are not those of some petty noble, to be clouded by a false nose and some dirt on the cheeks. (Ch 35)
  • You mustn't worry yourself {condescension} about Rayse. It is a pity about Aona and Skai, but they were foolish--violating our pact from the very beginning. (Ch 37)
  • Your skills are admirable, but you are merely a man. You had your chance to be more, and refused it. (Ch 38)
  • No good can come of two Shards settling in one location. It was agreed that we would not interfere with one another, and it disappoints me that so few of the Shards have kept to this original agreement. (Ch 39)
  • As for Uli Da, it was obvious {to me} from the outset that she was going to be a problem. Good riddance. (Ch 40)
  • Regardless, this is not your concern. You turned your back on divinity. If Rayse becomes an issue, he will be dealt with.
    And so will you. (Ch 41) {comfortable referring to itself as divinity, confident in ability to deal with Odium}

The tone and phrasing just really seems like a very prideful being, even among the other shards. Contrast to Harmony's or even the 2nd letter, which I agree is likely Autonomy from its own phrasing.

Secondly, (and this is a bit of Doylian logic,) we know that the 16 represent different facets of this original God Adonalsium, and being certain in one's own divinity and superiority is certainly a traditional aspect of the generic deity. I've always expected there to be a shard like this and I expect that this is Brandon's introduction of the character.

 

Also, 1st post!

Edited by Atharel
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1 hour ago, Atharel said:

Reading the first letter, I get the strong impression that the Shard writing it is a new one associated with the ideas Pride or Majesty. Certain wording screams it to me:

  • Dearest Cephandrius,
    I received your communication, of course. (Ch 33)
  • I noticed its arrival immediately, just as I noticed your many intrusions into my lands. (Ch 34)
  • You think yourself so clever, but my eyes are not those of some petty noble, to be clouded by a false nose and some dirt on the cheeks. (Ch 35)
  • You mustn't worry yourself {condescension} about Rayse. It is a pity about Aona and Skai, but they were foolish--violating our pact from the very beginning. (Ch 37)
  • Your skills are admirable, but you are merely a man. You had your chance to be more, and refused it. (Ch 38)
  • No good can come of two Shards settling in one location. It was agreed that we would not interfere with one another, and it disappoints me that so few of the Shards have kept to this original agreement. (Ch 39)
  • As for Uli Da, it was obvious {to me} from the outset that she was going to be a problem. Good riddance. (Ch 40)
  • Regardless, this is not your concern. You turned your back on divinity. If Rayse becomes an issue, he will be dealt with.
    And so will you. (Ch 41) {comfortable referring to itself as divinity, confident in ability to deal with Odium}

The tone and phrasing just really seems like a very prideful being, even among the other shards. Contrast to Harmony's or even the 2nd letter, which I agree is likely Autonomy from its own phrasing.

Secondly, (and this is a bit of Doylian logic,) we know that the 16 represent different facets of this original God Adonalsium, and being certain in one's own divinity and superiority is certainly a traditional aspect of the generic deity. I've always expected there to be a shard like this and I expect that this is Brandon's introduction of the character.

 

Also, 1st post!

Welcome to the Shard! I like your idea about a Shard of Pride, but unfortunately, we just got a WoB in one of the Signing Threads that says all three are Shards we know, so it is most likely Endowment, as she is the only Shard alone on a planet currently that we know.

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4 hours ago, Rider of Storms said:

Welcome to the Shard! I like your idea about a Shard of Pride, but unfortunately, we just got a WoB in one of the Signing Threads that says all three are Shards we know, so it is most likely Endowment, as she is the only Shard alone on a planet currently that we know.

Can you link to that WoB please? I want to see wording, as we "know" of a shard that only wants to hide/survive even if we haven't seen them on screen. 

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4 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

Can you link to that WoB please? I want to see wording, as we "know" of a shard that only wants to hide/survive even if we haven't seen them on screen. 

Is the shard who only wants to hide and survive likely to claim that they can handle Odium if he needs to be dealt with?

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9 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

Can you link to that WoB please? I want to see wording, as we "know" of a shard that only wants to hide/survive even if we haven't seen them on screen. 

I asked that question, and from my recollection it's not impossible for the Survival Shard. Another Sharder there asked about the first new Letter in his signed book from that event, but he hasn't finished the book yet, and I don't want to steal his thunder. He hasn't put it in the signing thread yet; I'll PM him and see if he can snap a pic.

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13 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

Can you link to that WoB please? I want to see wording, as we "know" of a shard that only wants to hide/survive even if we haven't seen them on screen. 

If it's a Shard we've seen, I doubt it's the one that wants to hide and survive.

Edit: Sorry, I see what you're saying. I don't know if Brandon would count that as one we know or not.

Edited by Rider of Storms
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I think the first is Endowment. 

"Your skills are admirable, but you are merely a man. You had your chance to be more, and refused it. (Ch 38)"
 

Refused sounds like he was gifted a shard, Endowment shows no sympathy because he turned down a gift.

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Well... I guess we'll find out more in like 3 years! 

Until then or until more WoB come out that bear on the OB Epigraph letters, I think I'm still sold on the "hide & survive" Shard who is based on Divine Wisdom. 

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14 hours ago, Shuffel said:

Refused sounds like he was gifted a shard, Endowment shows no sympathy because he turned down a gift.

What do you mean "gifted" a shard?

Where is the evidence that Autonomy has been meddling outside of Taldain (someone mentioned it earlier)?

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32 minutes ago, Krypton Savant said:

What do you mean "gifted" a shard?

Where is the evidence that Autonomy has been meddling outside of Taldain (someone mentioned it earlier)?

We have a WoB of entire pantheons made of Bavadin herself and we have a Khriss' comment about how ironic is the isolationistic Taldain's policy imposed by her while she did quite the opposite

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Big news on a new WoB:

Quote

Q: Can you drop a hint about which Shard authored the first of the letters to Hoid shown in the part 2 epigraphs?

Brandon: You have seen their world.

That means the first letter cannot be from the Survival Shard. It would need to be either Endowment or Autonomy, and I know which one I've got my money on.

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phoenix2563

Can you drop a hint about which Shard authored the first of the letters to Hoid shown in the part 2 epigraphs [of Oathbringer]?

Brandon Sanderson

You have seen their world.

 

 

So, I guess that means Cultivation (unlikely) or Endowment (pretty certain now)

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If letter 2 is Autonomy, could it refer to Autonomy somehow involving itself in Dromediad?  First of the Sun is a planet with a Perpendicularity and a magic system but no Resident Shard, asking the question of where did those things come from, and the planet is notably a water based one full of seas, and trials.  Khriss notes in AU that the main feature of the hospitable area of the system is water.

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On 11/17/2017 at 6:03 PM, FirstSelector said:

I asked Brandon in the SF signing, and he confirmed that Uli Da is Ambition.  The quote is almost "It's obvious, right?", but as I said in the event thread my phone (and recording) is AWOL.

I agree with Autonomy/Harmony for letters two and three, but I find it unlikely to be the survival shard for letter one.  It seems counter-intuitive for a Shard in hiding to have something that Hoid travels to and from the world repeatedly to dropout2222222222222222222222222222, be it useful2222222222222222222222222222Investiture or information.  However, I could imagine Hoid having to refuel on Breath to maintain his Height222222222222222222222ening (either through misuse or imparting it to others), justifying the first sentence.

22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222

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Just throwing my two cents in here. I hadn't thought about the fact that #1 and #2 might actually be from the SAME person. It would very much be Brandon's style to do something like that. However, given the differences in the writing style between the two I am less inclined to support the belief. Also, noting the confident and almost cocky nature of #1 that was previously mentioned, and the fact that we have a WoB that states we've seen the world of this author, I'm willing to bet that it's mostly likely Endowment.

 

The author of #2 mentions what I feel is a key phrase to their identity: "As the waves of the sea must continue to surge, so must our will continue resolute. Alone." This practically SCREAMS Autonomy to me. On top of that, there is the aforementioned admiration of Rayse and "his initiative", and we know that Bavadin is not opposed to siding with Odium. The author here seems pretty clear to me. As for the ocean reference, it's been stated already that water and land have opposite manifestations in the Cognitive realm. Half of Taldain is already water. But more importantly, if Autonomy resides on the star and not the planet, then what is primarily witnessed is Day Side where it would be almost all water in the Cognitive realm.

 

What I want to know is what's going on with the last bit of the second response, particularly this part: "you should not return to Obrodai. We have claimed that world, and a new avatar of our being is beginning to manifest there. She is young yet, and - as a precaution - she has been instilled with an intense and overpowering dislike of you." Is this a new Shard bearer? And if so, then what Shard did they pick up?? If it's not Autonomy, that's the only likely explanation I can think of. If it's NOT a Shard bearer, then that just further justifies the idea that the author is Autonomy. The "new avatar" could be yet another manifestation of Bavadin, stationed on Obrodai.

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