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[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread


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2 minutes ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Nale, of course, has gone over to the other side. And I'm worried Szeth will be the next target.

The skybreakers are odd. They make sense usually, but an odd sense. I honestly believe that they will continue visiting and training Szeth even if they are on different sides, and they won't do it with any ulterior motive. Just see each other as fellow skybreakers following their Oaths and respect each other for it. Szeth is probably the character closest to Honor in all SA. I don't think he has ever broken an Oath. Not even the silly or hard ones. 

Szeth's fate is right now fully on Dalinar's hands. Szeth can't bear to be on the driver seat of his life so has passed the wheel to Dalinar. Whether he drives him to Honor, Odium, Cultivation, redemption or something else will depend on Dalinar more than anyone/anything else. No pressure there :ph34r:. Sigh, their chat is probably the most missed thing for me in OB. 

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5 minutes ago, Necessary Eagle said:

I think Moash is gone, the one it made me think about was Szeth. At the end of WoR, Nin tells Szeth that it wasn't really his fault that he became a murderer, it was the Stone Shamans' fault. And part of Szeth knows that Kaladin was right, he could have stopped any time, but Szeth decided to accept Nin's rationalization.

Nale, of course, has gone over to the other side. And I'm worried Szeth will be the next target.

I'm not worried about Szeth, I have a suspicion that Nale followed the same path when he bonded a highspren, vowing to follow Ishar as his third oath, since he assumed he was the least affected by their time in damnation. Whereas Ishar could have abused that position to steer Nale toward Odium, i think Dalinar will be able to keep Szeth grounded and help him take the step he himself took in this book, in accepting the burden of his past crimes.

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34 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I was amazed at how easy it was for squires to become KR. Clearly the journey our protagonists had to go through fighting every inch was not normal by a hair. Knowing the Oaths, knowing what you had to do, and having spren around and a knight to support you made it all so smooth.

Yeah, this is why Szeth's fellow squires and the two acolytes back in Edgedancer felt like second class Knights Radiant, at least with Bridge 4 they shared part of the journey so they got to appreciate and internalize the Ideals, they're not being spoon fed and still struggling to keep up.

Edited by Darvys
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By the way. Where was Rlain after his pov? He has a potential huge role, yet he was barely shown. I get he was probably semi-hidden as someone might try to kill him if away from Bridge 4, but his complete dissappeareance? Wasn't he going to talk to Kaladin about how he felt alone in the world? What happened then? I so wanted him to try to suck in stormlight as a squire :(.

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Well, i finished this book almost exactly 24 hours after sitting at my front door waiting for the mail, so 10 hours of reading time, and, WOW.

It appears Venli is our first parshendi radiant

Moash is now a traitor

I like the contrast between the symbol at the top of the chapter for both Dalinar and Dalinar flashbacks, one being white, one being black.

I honestly thought there that Dalinar was going to end up being Odium's champion there

Were those epigraph letters possibly Wit trying to get help from other shards?

Lopen. Need i say more? Every. Single. Thing. (him saying the second ideal by accident made me laugh)

Rock is willing to kill for Kaladin

Anyone else think Szeth swore to obey Lift at first?

What happened to the thunderclast under the ocean that Odium mentioned? The one larger then the others?

Anyone else think that the diagram might have been made in such a brilliant way that it's goal is to intentionally fail and help our radiants? it's actually done that a fair few times so far with Kaladin progressing due to it, and seemingly brilliant T left a hidden message that Odium can't see.

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6 minutes ago, Blacksmithki said:

Were those epigraph letters possibly Wit trying to get help from other shards?

Yes. It appears that he's writing to pretty much everyone, asking for help.

Quote

Anyone else think Szeth swore to obey Lift at first?

We can only wish.

Edited by Kalinovsky
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57 minutes ago, Blacksmithki said:

 

Anyone else think that the diagram might have been made in such a brilliant way that it's goal is to intentionally fail and help our radiants? it's actually done that a fair few times so far with Kaladin progressing due to it, and seemingly brilliant T left a hidden message that Odium can't see.

Quite possibly 

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I finished the book in two long days staying up until 3 am on busy work days.  I’m glad I already had a head start with having read part 1 on Tor.com.  I’m not going to reread it right away though.  I’m going to wait a while and then get the audiobook, so I can reread it properly (without skimming the interludes or less exciting parts, just because I wanted to get to the next Kaladin, or Shallan, or Dalinar, or whoevers last chapter stopped at a bit of a cliffhanger.)  That said, here are my thoughts on the book….

First off, I loved Lift and Dalinars first meeting, both in the vision, and physically face to face.  Both scenes were hilarious, and Lift predictably eats Dalinars lunch.  I’d have been disappointed if she hadn’t, though it seems Sanderson went too obviously out of his way for her to get the opportunity to eat it.  Dalinar was visiting the Emperor’s Palace for goodness sake.  Obviously, such a place would offer refreshment and something to eat for a high ranking person without even being asked.  Why bring lunch? So Lift can steal it, of course.  Still a fun scene.  I wanted to see Dalinars reaction to her eating his lunch with her Shardfork though. 

I definitely didn’t think Elhokar would really fail in taking Kholinar, much less get killed while trying.  I was cheering for him to learn how to be a better king.  He was improving but I was a bit disappointed that he died, though not really sad.  I wonder why it was so important for Wit (Hoid) to rescue what I presume is the Pattern spren that may have been in the process of bonding with Elhokar.  And did Wit bond that spren? He started speaking the first Ideal, though he didn’t finish it.

I’m glad the love triangle resolved itself peacefully.  I hate love triangles.  Now we need Kaladin to find someone special so that the “what if’s” don’t haunt him.

I was right about the Dawnsingers and the Listeners being one and the same.  I always assumed that Odium came to Roshar on his own, after the humans, Dawnsingers, Cultivation, and Honor had already settled in, and that the Desolations started after Odium arrived and gave the Dawnsingers new forms turning them into Voidbringers.  I was wrong there.  But I think the arriving humans must have been surgebinding using Voidlight instead of stormlight if Odium was their god.

There are so many scenes that I would have loved to see at the end.  Szeths first meeting with Dalinar and/or Kaladin.  Kaladin killed him after all and has to have been wondering what's going on.  Jasnah’s reaction to becoming queen. Nalan’s reaction to Jezrien’s death.  If he suspects the parshmen had something to do with it….. I would have wanted to see his reaction and what that reaction would be.

Moash…… I hate him, I hate him, I hate him!!!!!!!

Same with Taravangian.  It seems he is set in his belief that if he can’t be in charge of saving the world, then the world can’t be saved.

We got to view a letter from Sazed (Harmony) to Hoid.  I will be interested to see where that leads.

What is it with so many from Nalthis being in Roshar?  We have Vashar, Nightblood, and Azure, and the man at the lighthouse in Shadesmar asked Kaladin what Heightening he has achieved when he realized Kaladin is invested, so I assume he’s from there too.  I also wonder if Azure’s blade is awakened or was it created another way.  Hoid was also showing off awakening in the epilogue, though we knew he had at least achieved the second Heightening from what he said to Kaladin in prison in WoR.  And I am pretty sure Azure was using Awakening to fight the Fused after Kaladin, Shallan and Adolin left the honorspren boat.  I wish we could have read that scene.

 

Those are some of my thoughts and ramblings.  I really loved the book and easily give it 5 stars.  Book 4 now please!?!?!? ;)  

Edited by TySun
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46 minutes ago, TySun said:

What is it with so many from Nalthis being in Roshar?  We have Vashar, Nightblood, and Azure, and the man at the lighthouse in Shadesmar asked Kaladin what Heightening he has achieved when he realized Kaladin is invested, so I assume he’s from there too. 

Nope, Lighthouse Guy is from Sel. He has an Aon-type name and says "Merciful Domi!" Probably asks about Heightenings because Kal obviously isn't an Elantrian, and no one thinks the KR are back.

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After digesting the book for the past 24 hours, I can safely say it was awesome. But disturbing.

Was nobody else deeply disturbed by Odium Passion? I expected some conniving, backstabbing SOB, who would twist your words and destroy worlds. Instead, he actually seemed to care. Every time Dalinar said "Choose your fighter! One duel for all of Roshar!" Odium would back away, and ask "Are you sure? Do you understand what you are asking?" I don't think that's just how Shards are. Ruin or Autonomy would probably have capitalized on those words, and immediately overpowered Dalinar. 

Moreover, the parsh have it rough. We were promised Voidbringers, and instead got people. Angry people. Angry and right people. Humanity invaded their world, spat on the kindness the Singers offered, and stole their Gods. Then, humans engaged in bloody wars, eventually removed a fundamental part of their existence, made them idiots, and enslaved them. I'm probably in the minority, but Moash was right. Humans don't deserve Roshar anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I love them good guys. The Knights Radiant were amazing here, and the Battle of Thaylen Field was phenomenal, but I have to side with Passion. Rayse's quest to kill the Shards makes sense now; all they do is meddle and interfere. Without the Shard's, the Cosmere would probably be a lot more peaceful, and more prosperous too. Elantris is proof of this. Even with both Shards dead, their world is the most advanced, and while divided, it seems like they've united since we last were on Sel.

Maybe I need to reread Oathbringer, but I think we're seeing the perspective of the bad guys. Guess I understand the Recreance now.

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3 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

By the way. Where was Rlain after his pov? He has a potential huge role, yet he was barely shown. I get he was probably semi-hidden as someone might try to kill him if away from Bridge 4, but his complete dissappeareance? Wasn't he going to talk to Kaladin about how he felt alone in the world? What happened then? I so wanted him to try to suck in stormlight as a squire :(.

He was there at the big glowing practice. Rock sent Renarin over to keep him company.

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2 minutes ago, KnightGradient said:

After digesting the book for the past 24 hours, I can safely say it was awesome. But disturbing.

Was nobody else deeply disturbed by Odium Passion? I expected some conniving, backstabbing SOB, who would twist your words and destroy worlds. Instead, he actually seemed to care. Every time Dalinar said "Choose your fighter! One duel for all of Roshar!" Odium would back away, and ask "Are you sure? Do you understand what you are asking?" I don't think that's just how Shards are. Ruin or Autonomy would probably have capitalized on those words, and immediately overpowered Dalinar. 

Moreover, the parsh have it rough. We were promised Voidbringers, and instead got people. Angry people. Angry and right people. Humanity invaded their world, spat on the kindness the Singers offered, and stole their Gods. Then, humans engaged in bloody wars, eventually removed a fundamental part of their existence, made them idiots, and enslaved them. I'm probably in the minority, but Moash was right. Humans don't deserve Roshar anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I love them good guys. The Knights Radiant were amazing here, and the Battle of Thaylen Field was phenomenal, but I have to side with Passion. Rayse's quest to kill the Shards makes sense now; all they do is meddle and interfere. Without the Shard's, the Cosmere would probably be a lot more peaceful, and more prosperous too. Elantris is proof of this. Even with both Shards dead, their world is the most advanced, and while divided, it seems like they've united since we last were on Sel.

Maybe I need to reread Oathbringer, but I think we're seeing the perspective of the bad guys. Guess I understand the Recreance now.

Except I'm pretty sure Odium intends to do some nasty stuff to the remaining humans and the worst world of all so far has had its Shard brutally murdered (Threnody). Scadrial has improved with its Shards united. Shards can be good or bad. They are in the end people.

 

Humans are bad. We know this, we are humans. But they can also be good and wonderful. Odium is so clearly bad news for anyone ever. He doesn't care. He pretends. He needs people to give in to him to have true power over them. 

 

And i think there is a lot to go that we do not know with the backstory.

 

But yes, I can see where the Parshendi anger comes from. That doesn't excuse Odium's plan, or the Fused.

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Overall I loved the book (Hey I even wrote a review on it with my advance copy I received on the 2nd of November).

Important Bits:

Kaladin really didn't get a lot of love this book, but that's okay. We got to learn a ton more about Syl instead. 

Jasnah didn't get a whole lot of love in this book, but those scenes where she was the PoV. damnation....

Navani seemed more of a backpiece in this entry than in the last couple. 

Elokhar, I was really growing to like the character.... Dammit.

Taravangian is quickly becoming one of my more hated characters. I don't like him, he's a manipulative bastard who is arrogant enough to believe he alone can save the world. 

All the Bridge 4 scenes were amazing, especially Tefts and Rocks. Rocks family showing up was awesome.

Shallan overall was interesting this book if only because of her multiple personas taking on a very increased role. 

Not enough Vasher, but it was really cool to see Vivenna show up as Azure. It's pretty obvious she has a true awakened blade that isn't a complete failure like Nightblood as well.

Nightblood and Szeth's interactions were great.

Moash really disappointed me. He's another character I'm quickly growing to hate as well.

Dalinar, wasn't expecting his past to be quite like that. It's interesting to see him grow over the course of his flashbacks into who we meet in Way of Kings.

My absolute favorite bit though was that I loved Hoid and Shallans interactions. I feel like he's quickly becoming a father figure to her in ways that her own father never was. Frankly I'd love to see this aspect of their relationship improved on in the future. 

Venli, I didn't like her in Words of Radiance, but damnation if she didn't step up in Oathbringer. Pity about Eshonai though.

Points I'm unsure about:

Was that Galladon in the lighthouse in Shadesmar? Definitely a person from Sel though. That Blessed Domi comment gives it away. Speaking of Shadesmar they apparently trade with Nalthis quite frequently if they had goods from the Court of the Gods.

The third letter confused the hell out of me. It seemed like it was multitude of responses to a letter Hoid sent out to all the shardholders. I could be wrong though.

Edited by Windborne Sword
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4 minutes ago, Windborne Sword said:

The third letter confused the hell out of me. It seemed like it was multitude of responses to a letter Hoid sent out to all the shardholders. I could be wrong though.

I think Hoid sent out letters to all the other Shards asking for help with Odium, and we got to see three of them. The third one was from Harmony; your guess is as good as mine for the first two.

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On November 14, 2017 at 1:10 AM, SLNC said:

Least favorite (minor) plotline: The "love triangle". This might sound bitter from me, but please don't mistake it as that. I have nothing against Adolin and Shallan getting together, but I am afraid, that their relationship will remain as bland and shallow as it is right now. In my eyes, it is unrealistically perfect and boring to read. Shallan's constant swooning about Adolin and Veil's swooning about Kaladin (though not as frequent) was really one of the worst things in this book, often leaving me with rolling eyes. The Kaladin/Shallan side of this "triangle" was only marginally explored and ended with plenty of assumptions on Shallan's side. I'll delve deeper into my thoughts in a specific thread, but I think that whole thing could have been just left out.

 

This was probably my main irritation with the book. I was mildly disappointed about Shallan and Adolin ending up together (not going to get into that). But forgetting that, the whole thing just seemed kind of unnecessary. If you're not even going to explore the other side of it, why even bother with it? It wasn't really important to the plot in any way and didn't really have any pay off. I wonder if a few scenes got cut out that would've made that arc make more sense because the extent of the conflict being 'she gave Kaladin 'do me' eyes' is pretty lame both from Shallan's perspective as an inner conflict and definitely from Adolin's perspective considering he's known for having a wandering eye.  

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I'll be honest, on the whole, I was underwhelmed. But I think that can happen when you spend this long building something up in your head. However, there were a few chapters that literally had me in tears:

Teft. Brandon's description of addiction and Teft's situation was perfect. Teft's self-loathing (especially and even after his spren wanted to bond) was as close to the real thing as I've ever experienced externally. 

Shallan and Wit. The back and forth between the two that led to her taking the first step in owning her pain was so good. Such a good conversation. And of course Witn had clever comments.  

Honorable mentions are Dalinar finally not hiding from his pain and past, Elhokar psyching up to be a Radiant, and Kaladin's breakdown after Kholinar.

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1 minute ago, rush said:

Teft. Brandon's description of addiction and Teft's situation was perfect. Teft's self-loathing (especially and even after his spren wanted to bond) was as close to the real thing as I've ever experienced externally. 

Shallan and Wit. The back and forth between the two that led to her taking the first step in owning her pain was so good. Such a good conversation. And of course Wit had clever comments.  

Regarding Teft: I deal with severe depression, borderline crippling (I barely function and can't work a regular job due to it). This was a really accurate description of how it feels for me on a day to day basis. At least the part of me that hates myself and wants to give up. 

For Shallan and Hoid, it was probably one of my favorite parts of the book. I love how Shallan is almost always happy to see Hoid. Hoid treats her almost like a daughter or granddaughter, or so it seems to me.

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23 minutes ago, rush said:

Teft. Brandon's description of addiction and Teft's situation was perfect. Teft's self-loathing (especially and even after his spren wanted to bond) was as close to the real thing as I've ever experienced externally.

I loved Teft. That character ... wow. I bawled when I saw him finally accept himself, broken as he was, and decide to start standing up for himself against himself. Sanderson did it so well. My own addictions, my own self-loathing, when I beat them back even if only for a moment -- it does not feel as heroic and majestic as this. Seeing it happen with someone else, I finally got a glimpse of how heroic and majestic it actually is. I sobbed like a child.

Dalinar's acceptance of his pain and his past, fighting against Odium's offer to take it away, take away responsibility and pain, was also one of the most heroic things I've ever seen. Did anyone else get major Star Treck vibes a la "The Final Frontier," with Sybok as Odium and Dalinar as Kirk? "I need my pain" vs "You cannot have my pain." Wow. This was the other scene I cried at.

I at first felt disappointed that Kaladin didn't swear the fourth ideal, but now I see it was brilliance on Sanderson's part. It would feel cheap to have him come by it without effort. Showing him in this crucial moment, then taking away his deus ex machina because no matter how badly he needs to save people he simply can't -- that is going to make it mean so much more when he finally does swear it. Whatever it is, I'm sure it has something to do with letting go of the people he cannot save.

Lastly, I think we finally saw Hemalurgy used outside of Scadrial. No wonder even Vessels have been scared Witless over it.

So now we know why the Recreance happened, but not why Honor and Cultivation agreed to accept a new god among them. I still believe they did it as a way to trap him and keep him from destroying the rest of the Cosmere. But how did he get there in the first place? Did he create humans somewhere else while he wasn't going around Splintering up every shard in sight? It likely happened sometime after, and I'm 90% positive that he did create these humans since Dalinar is referred to as a Child of Odium by the Nightwatcher, but what planet did he Invest in to create them? And why did he choose to save some? Or did they flee him, but by virtue of being his creations bring him with them? And how and when exactly did the switch occur when men adopted Honor and Cultivation as their gods, and Odium became the god of the parshmen? The Listeners claimed their gods abandoned them for men; were those gods the Unmade, or Honor and Cultivation?

So many questions. So much excitement. I need the next book, Brandon! But this one was sooooo worth the wait.

Edited by Shadowmancer
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1 hour ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Nope, Lighthouse Guy is from Sel. He has an Aon-type name and says "Merciful Domi!" Probably asks about Heightenings because Kal obviously isn't an Elantrian, and no one thinks the KR are back.

I haven't read either Elantris or Warbreaker for long time. Time for a reread soon.  I remember reading that curse but I didn't remember it as an Elantrian curse.

 

1 hour ago, KnightGradient said:

After digesting the book for the past 24 hours, I can safely say it was awesome. But disturbing.

Was nobody else deeply disturbed by Odium Passion? I expected some conniving, backstabbing SOB, who would twist your words and destroy worlds. Instead, he actually seemed to care. Every time Dalinar said "Choose your fighter! One duel for all of Roshar!" Odium would back away, and ask "Are you sure? Do you understand what you are asking?" I don't think that's just how Shards are. Ruin or Autonomy would probably have capitalized on those words, and immediately overpowered Dalinar. 

Moreover, the parsh have it rough. We were promised Voidbringers, and instead got people. Angry people. Angry and right people. Humanity invaded their world, spat on the kindness the Singers offered, and stole their Gods. Then, humans engaged in bloody wars, eventually removed a fundamental part of their existence, made them idiots, and enslaved them. I'm probably in the minority, but Moash was right. Humans don't deserve Roshar anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I love them good guys. The Knights Radiant were amazing here, and the Battle of Thaylen Field was phenomenal, but I have to side with Passion. Rayse's quest to kill the Shards makes sense now; all they do is meddle and interfere. Without the Shard's, the Cosmere would probably be a lot more peaceful, and more prosperous too. Elantris is proof of this. Even with both Shards dead, their world is the most advanced, and while divided, it seems like they've united since we last were on Sel.

Maybe I need to reread Oathbringer, but I think we're seeing the perspective of the bad guys. Guess I understand the Recreance now.

Umm, remember that Odium was the humans deity when they came to Roshar and were named voidbringers.  The Voidbringers are basiclly the ones fighting for Odium. Although, it might be true that Passion name fits better academically, I think when Odium showed Dalinar his power, Dalinar saw more hate then any other emotion.  And Ruin was just as capable of acting nice as Odium, though you are right that Ruin probably would have taken immediate advantage where Odium allowed Dalinar to reconsider.  It isn't the parshmen who are the bad guys here, it is their leaders.  This is what this book makes clear to me.  The parshmen just can't or won't switch sides because the other side had enslaved and abused their kind.  The enemy here is Odium and those who follow him, be they human, listener, or spen.

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Finally people will stop saying "Love triangle". Unless Adolin and Kaladin are having private spear lessons, it's a love angle not triangle. 

 

Also, I don't like all the Cosmere stuff here. I trust Brandon enough to suspend my dislike, so to speak, but I felt there was a little too much "Heh, get it?" in this one. 

 

First question when Dalinar used Adhesion to stick the realms together: Can he make new Honorblades? That'd be useful. 

 

Jasnah was an absolute beast during the final confrontation. I always knew Elsecallers would be buckwild in a fight. Especially when they're Super Saiyan. And queen? Hell ya. 

 

Overall, I liked it. A lot of revelations I didn't expect to see till the back 5, given traditional fantasy book pacing. 

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20 minutes ago, Islington said:

Also, I don't like all the Cosmere stuff here. I trust Brandon enough to suspend my dislike, so to speak, but I felt there was a little too much "Heh, get it?" in this one. 

Which Cosmere stuff in particular bothered you?

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3 hours ago, KnightGradient said:

Was nobody else deeply disturbed by Odium Passion?

1 hour ago, TySun said:

Although, it might be true that Passion name fits better academically, I think when Odium showed Dalinar his power, Dalinar saw more hate then any other emotion.

While I'm all for Odium being a more complex antagonist than just pointless hatred, his claim to represent Passion does not sit right with me. I would expect a true Passion shard to revel in life, in the drives and emotions of people. But Odium is angling to kill most of the humans on Roshar. All that passion (and he himself says that passion "defines men"!), extinguished.

In fact, we see on-screen Odium encouraging people to dull their passion... by feeding it to him. A Passion shard would not only be passionate themself, but fan the fires of everyone else's passion too, positive and negative. But Odium? Give me your pain, don't blame yourself, you don't have to hurt, never feel guilty again. Moash outright states he has no passion, only numbness. Leshwi responds, "You have given him your pain."

This tactical, seductive draining away of negative emotions is not the act of a shard that truly values passion. Passion is a tool to Odium. He feeds off it and uses its power. But it is not his Intent. He is "[t]he empty pit that sucks in emotion" (Ch. 111), dangerously disguised as emotion itself.

Edited by Jess
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