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[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread


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I just figured that one year ago I made a map for a totally unrelated videogame and I posted a moral conundrum similar to that of the recreance. The posted map with related description (which was only meant to add a bit of fluff and flavor to a challenging desert map) is here
 

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The stories say that once our tribe lived in the fertile land to the west, where plants and crops grow and one does not need to dig deeply to find water. But the easy life made us weak and lazy. One day the invaders came from the sea, and they conquered and pillaged, and they cast us out of our land. The few survivors were forced to escape in the desert, where they have struggled to survive ever since. But the stories speak of hope. They tell of a wise leader that will come, one that will be able to tame the desert and build a mighty civilization over it. A leader that will somehow find in this barren place the resources to train a powerful army, and will lead it across the high passes into the fertile land that we were forced to flee generations ago, slaughter the invaders, who have grown soft in their comfort like we did before them, and claim that land once again as ours! Has that leader finally arrived?

[snip]

After you win, wonder about the morality of kiling a man and taking the land where he's lived since he was born, just because his remote ancestors did the same to your ancestors one or two centuries before. Yes, you figured it. You bastard.

 

great minds think alike, or there is no such thing as originality. You decide.

Edited by king of nowhere
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Probably my favorite and influential part was the last KALadin fight with Araman (excuse my spelling). The thing with me was that Brandon Sanderson is know for killing off main characters and for the last 19 months I convinced myself that he would kill off Kaladin. I could hardly read the fight, skipping over the other main characters parts just to know that my boy didn't die.

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16 hours ago, Naurock said:

Brandon considers Warbreaker to be the prequel to all of the Stormlight Archives. I wish I was better at navigating the WoB database and it's been a long times since I've tried but I have read quite a few things regarding this.

The Arcanum is SUPER easy to use. I searched "Warbreaker + Prequel" and it immediately came up:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

One thing you have to remember is that in my cosmere outline, Warbreaker was a prequel to The Way of Kings, explaining Vasher's backstory. So I consider them more closely connected than some other things. But you could consider this the first major crossover.

Nightblood will be re-introduced, so those who haven't read Warbreaker will be brought up to speed.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

It goes pretty far back, in fact when I wrote Way of Kings, the 2002 version; he was a main character and was Kaladin's swordmaster. I wrote Warbreaker to jump back and write out his backstory, Vasher's. So to me Warbreaker actually came after Way of Kings. But the connection goes back pretty far, further than you would first guess.

 

So, Vasher and Nightblood are very much meant to be a part of Stormlight, and are in no way shimmied in for a nice cameo. They are a big part of the story and have always been.

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There is too much of warbreaker stuff in it too.....

And the part where humans are voidbringers and from another planet created by odium...

That's another book waiting to happen...which I can't wait to read...

This book felt like a filler though 

No doubt it was amazing and brought so many aspects and connected us to each character deeply...

More 7 to come....

I wonder how the story will turn....currently as the story is progressing it feels like it shouldn't be 10 books long and unnecessarily be made that long 

 

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On 11/14/2017 at 9:55 AM, Ailvara said:

I also wonder, what he's getting at with this triangle resembling another (possibly Dalinar/Navani/Gavilar). It seems we are either left with a red herring or Adolin getting killed off and Shalladin happening later, possibly in the sequel series. Both options absolutely terrible.

IMO, the parallel triangle is Honor (Adolin), Cultivation (Shallan), Odium (Kaladin). Might be controversial, but Kaladin is nothing without passion, which reminds me of Vin's unique ties to ruin. Shallan is a force of creation, and Adolin's arc feels more and more like a battle to define honor for himself. In the end, cultivation is a better fit for honor, and I wouldn't be too surprised if there was actually a relationship triangle among the three shards, with honor and odium both having resided on the same planet that as cultivation at one point. 

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MVP was Timbre (Nightblood close second) 

Paraphrased from OB:

*Pulsing to resolve*

"You did what?"

*More Resolve*

"How do you take a voidspren captive?"

*Pulsing to Victory*

I honestly threw down my tablet and shouted out loud when I read that.

Timbre switching to Rhythm of the Lost while getting sucked into the void during the Dalinar/Venli vision hit me with the feels pretty hard.

Also, Timbre creating the first Listener/Singer Radiant? HELL YEAH. 

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I just finished the book a few days ago, and there were so many great moments! Here's a few of my quick thoughts.

  • Dalinar's history was much darker than I expected, though it really made me appreciate how much he's changed to present day. And the way it all culminated into his refusal of Odium was fantastic. Finally getting answers about his wife and his boon was nice too.
    • Spoiler

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  • There was a little less Kaladin viewpoints than I would have preferred, but it what I was okay with what we got. It was also interesting that he didn't end up swearing the next Ideal. It made sense according to Kaladin's character at that point, and just felt right, even though I was a little disappointed that I wouldn't learn the 4th Ideal. Admittedly it would have gotten repetitive if Oathbringer had also ended with Kaladin saving the day by swearing an oath.
  • Shallan was... interesting. I certainly didn't see that level of mental instability coming, and it added a certain level of unpredictability to her chapters. I never felt sure that I could always predict what she would do next. I would say that I'm a little disappointed that the "Kaladin killed your brother" revelation didn't lead to any real developments.
  • Szeth with Nightblood was great. There interactions constantly made me laugh. I expected them to be a horrible force of destruction, and I wasn't disappointed. Sure, they were a horrible force of destruction that sided with our protagonists, but I like to think of that as a bonus.
  • Lift finally got in touch with the main cast, and it was everything I was hoping for. Can't wait to see more of how she interacts with them in book 4.
  • Azure. I had my suspicions when she said the phrase "white on black", and it looks like they were rewarded. When I looked back I began to feel a bit silly for not thinking of the possibility sooner, especially with the whole "My name is a color thing". It was cool to see Vivenna, and made me really interested to see what's going to happen in Nightblood.
  • Adolin. It looked like he was starting to awaken his shardblade, which was pretty amazing. Maybe he'll become a future Radiant? I will admit I was surprised that his murder of Sadeas had such little impact on the story. I expected him to face some consequences, or at the very least feel some form of investigative pressure, especially when he was told to look into the murder, but it was forgiven pretty easily.
  • Didn't expect Mr. T to tell Dalinar about the Diagram. That was a real surprise at the end.
  • Lopen wins the award for "Most Casual Swearing of an Ideal". That scene had me laughing for a good while.

So much happened in this book! Overall I would say my favorite character was Dalinar because of everything he tried to achieve, and for how much he developed as a character over the course of the book. Can't wait for book 4.

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13 hours ago, Faceless Mist-Wraith said:
  • Didn't expect Mr. T to tell Dalinar about the Diagram. That was a real surprise at the end.

Mr. T don't tell dalinar of the diagram, but only he seek and unleash szeth on roshar, blaming dova (he claim she sould be the herald battar) for the scheming.

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I just had a thought. Kaladin is immune to the Thrill and oathbringer shows that all knights radiants are not immune to it. Why do you think so, and to expand on it, do you think that Kaladin could be immune to other mental power like Nightblood's influence or Soothing or Rioting?

Edited by Housedunn
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45 minutes ago, Ookla the Eagle said:

I'd have to go reread that passage, but I think we don't really know how much Mr. T told Dalinar.

“You … didn’t become king of Jah Keved by accident, did you?” Dalinar asked. [...] “How?” Dalinar asked.
“There’s a woman at Kharbranth,” he said. “She goes by the name Dova, but we think she is Battah’Elin. A Herald. She told us the Desolation was approaching.” He looked to Dalinar. “I had nothing to do with the death of your brother. But once I heard of what incredible things the assassin did, I sought him out. Years later, I located him, and gave him specific instructions.…”

oathbringer Chapter 121. Ideals

“We’re in a dangerous position,” Dukar said. “His Majesty revealed too much to Dalinar. We will be watched now.”  … the … window …
“Dalinar doesn’t know of the Diagram,” Adrotagia countered. “Or that we brought the singers to Urithiru. He only knows that Kharbranth controlled the assassin—and thinks that the Herald’s insanity prompted us. We’re still well positioned.”

oathbringer Chapter 122. A Debt Repaid

i don't think this leave enough room for another interpretation.

Edited by Fulminato
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It probably hasn't been talked about in this thread, but I hate Moash. I'm working on his Coppermind page and it painful to study his content and his full-circle betrayal of Kaladin. And when I say I hate him, I mean him as a character, not how he's written. Brandon does a really good job of making characters like Moash. 

I don't know why, but Dalinar learning to read and write made me irrationally happy. 

Wit bonding a Cryptic, can't wait to read those conversations. 

The Taln/Ash interaction done caught me right in the feels. Taln's path back to some form of sanity is going to be amazing. 

Mr T, sigh. 

 

 

 

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In Part Five: New Unity, Ash says " Oh God. Oh, Adonalsium". How does she know about Adonalsium?. I know that she's a herald, but even Sazed from Mistborn doesn't know about it. In The Hero of Ages, Sazed says " I have delved and searched, and have only been able to come up with a single name: Adonalsium. Who, or what, it was, I do not yet know".

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1 hour ago, Kelsier96 said:

In Part Five: New Unity, Ash says " Oh God. Oh, Adonalsium". How does she know about Adonalsium?. I know that she's a herald, but even Sazed from Mistborn doesn't know about it. In The Hero of Ages, Sazed says " I have delved and searched, and have only been able to come up with a single name: Adonalsium. Who, or what, it was, I do not yet know".

Welcome to the forum! We don't know yet, however Ash is much older than Sazed, who now as Harmony knows more than he did as human (one of the letters is from him). Tanavast (the now dead holder of the Shard Honor) is one of those who shattered Adonalsium, so he could have shared with his Heralds or they could be from time and place where there was more knowledge on Adonalsium.

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When the holder of a Shard dies, the power of the shard will be taken by some other person as seen in Mistborn. (right?). So, when Honor died, did the power go to Stormfather as he is now able to to things he previously couldn't? Like Dalinar combining all the three realms into one. If so, is Stormfather(Dalinar included) as powerful as Honor himself?

 

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No. If that was true then, the stormfather could go up against Odium. Odium stomped him so hard, the stormfather started crying. Also if the stormfather was that was that powerful, Odium probably would try to kill him sooned

Edited by Housedunn
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5 hours ago, Kelsier96 said:

In Part Five: New Unity, Ash says " Oh God. Oh, Adonalsium". How does she know about Adonalsium?. I know that she's a herald, but even Sazed from Mistborn doesn't know about it. In The Hero of Ages, Sazed says " I have delved and searched, and have only been able to come up with a single name: Adonalsium. Who, or what, it was, I do not yet know".

sazed before the end of HoA don't know nothing of shards and shardholders. he learn a bit from the power he wield, but nothing substantial.

the heralds are ancient people, they interact directly with honor, and made a (oath)pact to bind odium. to make this they need to have some deep cosmere knowledge. i don't find so troubling they know adonalsium and the shattering.

2 hours ago, Kelsier96 said:

When the holder of a Shard dies, the power of the shard will be taken by some other person as seen in Mistborn. (right?). So, when Honor died, did the power go to Stormfather as he is now able to to things he previously couldn't? Like Dalinar combining all the three realms into one. If so, is Stormfather(Dalinar included) as powerful as Honor himself?

in mistborn sazed take the full power of the two shard, but odium don't only kill honor, but had shattered the shard (and the power) he hold. the largest chunk merged with the SF, but the raw power of the stormfather is nearly nothing compared a full shard like odium.

Edited by Fulminato
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When Dalinar temporarily created Honor's Perpendicularity in part V, it seemed that he gathered all of the Honor-power that had become the gloryspren. I can't believe that the gloryspren represent the total of all the investiture released when Honor was splintered. After all, Cultivation's Perpendularity is stable, and it apparently requires only a portion of Cultivation's power to exist.  

Would a full revival of Honor require the reintegration of more kinds of spren? Perhaps even some sapiant varieties? 

It now seems inevitable that Honor will be re-constituted as part of the final fight against Odium. Will this event require the brave sacrifice of many spren? Logically, honorspren like Syl would be at the top of this list.

Given Kaladin's propensity for self-sacrifice, I can easily see Kaladin and Syl becoming martyrs in order to recreate Honor and finally defeat Odium.

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On December 3, 2017 at 0:05 PM, Fulminato said:

“You … didn’t become king of Jah Keved by accident, did you?” Dalinar asked. [...] “How?” Dalinar asked.
“There’s a woman at Kharbranth,” he said. “She goes by the name Dova, but we think she is Battah’Elin. A Herald. She told us the Desolation was approaching.” He looked to Dalinar. “I had nothing to do with the death of your brother. But once I heard of what incredible things the assassin did, I sought him out. Years later, I located him, and gave him specific instructions.…”

oathbringer Chapter 121. Ideals

“We’re in a dangerous position,” Dukar said. “His Majesty revealed too much to Dalinar. We will be watched now.”  … the … window …
“Dalinar doesn’t know of the Diagram,” Adrotagia countered. “Or that we brought the singers to Urithiru. He only knows that Kharbranth controlled the assassin—and thinks that the Herald’s insanity prompted us. We’re still well positioned.”

oathbringer Chapter 122. A Debt Repaid

i don't think this leave enough room for another interpretation.

Sorry, it has been a few days since I read it, so I had forgotten about the explanation later.

On December 3, 2017 at 6:09 PM, Kered said:

It probably hasn't been talked about in this thread, but I hate Moash. I'm working on his Coppermind page and it painful to study his content and his full-circle betrayal of Kaladin. And when I say I hate him, I mean him as a character, not how he's written. Brandon does a really good job of making characters like Moash. 

I really agree with you. In Words of Radiance I could still understand his motivation, and to some extent relate, even though I didn't like his betraying Kaladin. In Oathbringer that went away completely. I can understand that he feels wronged for his grandparent's deaths, but the extent to which he is willing to go infuriates the logical part of my brain. "Oh you're mad about the injustices within your society? Well fantastic! That doesn't give you the excuse to go along with the attempted genocide of your entire race, some of whom are innocents that were in the same position as you were" was a common rant I had to myself whenever I read his chapters.

It especially ticked me off that he killed Elhokar when:

  • Elhokar was on his way to becoming a better person, and a Radiant.
  • Elhokar was holding his son

That last bullet especially. How on earth can you declare any form of moral high ground when you are doing the exact thing that you were blaming Elhokar for?

And that fact that he continuously escalates the level of his betrayal. "What's that? You want me to go kill some crazy people who may or may not be gods? Sure, why not. I've already betrayed one of the people closest to me and am currently helping to destroy countless innocent people, what's a little deicide?"

\rant

 

Edited by Faceless Mist-Wraith
grammar
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4 minutes ago, Faceless Mist-Wraith said:

Sorry, it has been a few days since I read it, so I had forgotten about the explanation later.

I really agree with you. In Words of Radiance I could still understand his motivation, and to some extent relate, even though I didn't like his betraying Kaladin. In Oathbringer that went away completely. I can understand that he feels wronged for his grandparent's deaths, but the the extent to which he is willing to go infuriates the logical part of my brain. "Oh you're mad about the injustices within your society? Well fantastic! That doesn't give you the excuse to go along with the attempted genocide of your entire race, some of whom are innocents that were in the same position as you were" was a common rant I had to myself whenever I read his chapters.

It especially ticked me off that he killed Elhokar when:

  • Elhokar was on his way to becoming a better person, and a Radiant.
  • Elhokar was holding his son

That last bullet especially. How on earth can you declare any form of moral high ground when you are doing the exact thing that you were blaming Elhokar for?

And that fact that he continuously escalates the level of his betrayal. "What's that? You want me to go kill some crazy people who may or may not be gods? Sure, why not. I've already betrayed one of the people closest to me and am currently helping to destroy countless innocent people, what's a little deicide?"

\rant

 

I agree with everything you said. But the nail in the coffin moment for me was after he killed Elhokar, turned, and gave Kaladin the Bridge Four salute. That gesture is rich with implications, none of them good ones. 

Edited by Kered
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2 minutes ago, Faceless Mist-Wraith said:

Sorry, it has been a few days since I read it, so I had forgotten about the explanation later.

I really agree with you. In Words of Radiance I could still understand his motivation, and to some extent relate, even though I didn't like his betraying Kaladin. In Oathbringer that went away completely. I can understand that he feels wronged for his grandparent's deaths, but the the extent to which he is willing to go infuriates the logical part of my brain. "Oh you're mad about the injustices within your society? Well fantastic! That doesn't give you the excuse to go along with the attempted genocide of your entire race, some of whom are innocents that were in the same position as you were" was a common rant I had to myself whenever I read his chapters.

It especially ticked me off that he killed Elhokar when:

  • Elhokar was on his way to becoming a better person, and a Radiant.
  • Elhokar was holding his son

That last bullet especially. How on earth can you declare any form of moral high ground when you are doing the exact thing that you were blaming Elhokar for?

And that fact that he continuously escalates the level of his betrayal. "What's that? You want me to go kill some deities? Sure, why not. I've already betrayed one of the people closest to me and am currently helping to destroy countless innocent people, what's a little deicide?"

\rant

i find this highly foreshadowing

You see, it has been my experience that no matter where you go, you will find some who abuse their power.” He shrugged. “Eye color is not so odd a method, compared to many others I have seen. If you were to overthrow the lighteyes and place yourselves in power, Moash, I doubt that the world would be a very different place. The abuses would still happen. Simply to other people.” Kaladin nodded slowly, but Moash shook his head. “No. I’d change the world, Sigzil. And I mean to.”

WotK Chapter 46: "child of tanavast"

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On 11/15/2017 at 4:07 PM, Ryshadium said:

On an overall note, I felt that this was Brandon's best book, on a purely writing level.  I find that his skills as a writer have improved greatly over time, and that pattern has not changed with Oathbringer.  He has always had tremendous skill with characters and worldbuilding, but this was the first of his books where I felt the writing itself was at the same level.  The prose felt tighter and flowed better than even WoR and WoK. It made reading the book an incredibly fulfilling experience. 

This is also my favorite book that he has written.  I feel like this was the book Sanderson has waited his whole career to write (well, Dalinar' story more specifically).

I'll give a more detailed reaction later, but the Battle of Thaylen Field might be my favorite fictional battle ever.  This is about to be very stream of consciousness.  Sanderson managed to weave just about every major character in the story into the plot of the battle in a believable way.  There were several moments when I had tears in my eyes (Namely, Dalinar's final rejection of Odium).  The battle never seemed one-sided, even after Dalinar spoke his Third Ideal (although it was clear the Radiants still had an upper hand since Odium had retreated).  Speaking of which, Odium's "physical" presence is brilliant and chilling.  I loved that Kaladin got to fight Amaram.  I literally started yelling (in joy) at my book during most of Szeth's POVs during the battle.  Jasnah showed us (the audience) how devastating Soucasting can be in battle (well, when the user knows what they are doing).  I definitely teared up when Teft spoke his Third Ideal (especially when he reference himself as the person he hates the most).  More yelling in joy when Dalinar spoke his Third ideal/created Honor's Perpendicularity.  I'm still trying to grasp how crazy powerful Dalinar is (and he isn't even a fully realized Bondsmith yet).

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52 minutes ago, Fulminato said:

i find this highly foreshadowing

You see, it has been my experience that no matter where you go, you will find some who abuse their power.” He shrugged. “Eye color is not so odd a method, compared to many others I have seen. If you were to overthrow the lighteyes and place yourselves in power, Moash, I doubt that the world would be a very different place. The abuses would still happen. Simply to other people.” Kaladin nodded slowly, but Moash shook his head. “No. I’d change the world, Sigzil. And I mean to.”

WotK Chapter 46: "child of tanavast"

funny thing, he actually did change the world. now the abuse don't happen anymore to some people or some other. no, they happen to everybody. human? kept as a slave and scheduled for exterminatiion. singer? will be sacrificed to reborn a fused. spren? voidspren are conquering shadesmar as we speak. everybody is suffering. yay for equality!

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