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[OB] Part 3 Reactions


Chaos

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I didn't recognize Vivenna immediately from the name, but it's how I figured it out before she used the color metaphors. I was suspicious when I saw that it was a woman, and started looking for her to use a color metaphor. Then, right before she said "white on black", it occurred to me that her name meant "blue"! I could have kicked myself for not realizing it right away. 

It fits Vivenna, too, that she only used the color metaphors when she was under stress (e.g. the Fused attack), like with her hair in Warbreaker.

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11 hours ago, dendrophobe said:

Well, that was quite the emotional roller coaster!

Vivenna... I was suspicious that she was something different immediately, but didn't realize it was Vivenna until she said "White on black". Female, better (less dangerous) version of Nightblood? Sounds good! I can't wait to read Nightblood to see how that came to be.

"White on black" got an actual fist pump and me saying "Gotcha" out loud. Real payoff from all of Zahel's colour imagery. 

Also, I felt that part 3 could have finished as an actual climax for the book (Or, a smaller less epic book, anyway). I had a proper moment of realisation when I realised that we had 2 whole parts remaining. 

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So, just finished Part 3 and haven't read anything else on here yet. I really have only 3 reactions to share about this part, mainly because everything else seems so trivial by comparison. I'm going to try this a bit differently this time, you see, I've got a friend who I've been introducing to the Cosmere, and he's recently finished WoR, but hasn't started Edgedancer or Oathbringer yet. Through this part, I've been sharing a few of my reactions (sans spoilers) with him via instant messaging, perhaps a little unfair since he had no idea what I was talking about, but I figured that he wouldn't mind. I thought that I may try copy-pasting these reactions (with explanations in square brackets if necessary) here:

  1. Oh, of course, she's [REDACTED]! How did it take me this long to figure that out?!?! I knew that she was going to be in the book after all. Still, at it hasn't yet revealed her identity, so I still get to say: "Called it" [This, of course, refers to Vivenna which I figured out when she used Zahel's "white on black" idiom. Annoyingly I noted in an earlier chapter that her Shardblade sounded a little like Nightblood, so I'm really annoyed that I didn't figure it out then.]
  2. Oh, Wit, you beautiful, wonderful, brilliant person! That was perfect! Sorry, just finished chapter 82, and it was incredible. I'm not one to pick up on foreshadowing much, except after the fact, but I think I might have worked out what's going to be happening with Szeth in Shinovar later in the book, at least in part. Not to mention, the immediate effects of that story, just sublime.
  3. WAIT! IT ENDS THERE!?! 
    Part 3 ends there!
    How dare you, Brandon! That is one cliff-hanger too far!
    Now I need to finish the Interludes (5 of them!) before I can get some resolution to this :angry:
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I finished up. Going through, I made sure to highlight my favourite parts. I started highlighting all of the Wit parts so I just stopped there haha. Spoilered for obscene length.

Spoiler

The Stormfather rumbled with displeasure. They go about this backward. Foolish men. They can’t draw in Light and become Radiant; they first must be approaching Radiance, and look for Light to fulfill the promise.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 642). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

It spent a lot of words saying what was obvious, and was exactly the sort of thing Dalinar had no patience for.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 647). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(Sounds a lot like Impromptu speaking, Dalinar and I would have an interesting relationship.) 

“They swarmed the city gates, threw them open in the rain, then moved out onto the plain surrounding the city. The next day, they demanded formal economic redress for improper appropriation of their labors. They claimed the subsection of the rules exempting parshmen from wages was extralegal, and put a motion through the courts. We were negotiating—a bizarre experience, I must say—before some of their leaders got them marching off instead.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 651). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(Tragedy. Sounds like they had a solid legal argument. Respect their passion for the legal system Odium!)

Dalinar finally settled onto one of the couches. Might as well eat something … except his cloth-wrapped lunch lay open, crumbs on the table, the wooden curry box empty save for a few drips. What on Roshar?

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 653). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(Ha! Got 'im)

He hopped up and began gathering his things. Shallan slipped forward and glanced inside his pack, catching sight of a small jar, sealed at the top. It was mostly black, but the side pointed toward her was instead white.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 676). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(:huh: Also, skipping the quote, Wit has money problems. HA!)

I believe there’s at least one god still worshipping me by accident.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 679). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(:huh:)

“Most days, Elhokar has trouble saving face, let alone cities.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 682). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(Zing! Though...is this too soon? It sort of feels too soon now.)

“I once knew a real axalacious bloke,” Kaladin said. “He was great at psychological fights.”

“Psychological fights?”

“He could really get inside someone’s head.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (pp. 690-691). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(Ha! Yes Kaladin!)

The highmarshal was of average height for an Alethi woman, maybe just under, and wore her hair straight and short, reaching halfway down her cheeks. Her eyes were orange, and she wore a side sword with a glistening silver basket hilt.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 697). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(<_< Obvious Vivenna is Obvious. We scrutinzed so hard!)

What about a charge of horses bearing men with spears, like the legends spoke of during the Shin invasion?

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 736). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(Shin invasion?!?)

Adolin sighed softly. “Of course. He’s probably their leader now or something. Storming bridgeboy.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 795). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(Green isn't a good color on Adolin, he should stick to Kholin Blue ;))

“That was … that was terrible,” she whispered, floating over to land on his shoulder. “Did we … just kill a spren?”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 813). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(War just became real to Syl. She can't avoid thinking about actual loss forever.)

 

4

Elokhoar's scene was just so intense. I still can't find myself hating Moash. I'm so incredibly invested in his story, and this idea that Odium isn't just about hatred, but passionate emotion. I'm still looking forward to seeing more of this. Poor Kaladin. He tries so hard, but all of his work with Sah seems to have been for nothing. Another wound in his soul.

It was nice to get back to Adolin's POV, and awesome to get some confirmation that he kept the knife, but it really seems like too little too late at this point. Is anything going to happen with Sadeas's death?

King T is a Stoneward. Huh. So what order is Amaram going to end up being?

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48 minutes ago, Fifth of Daybreak said:

I finished up. Going through, I made sure to highlight my favourite parts. I started highlighting all of the Wit parts so I just stopped there haha. Spoilered for obscene length.

  Hide contents

The Stormfather rumbled with displeasure. They go about this backward. Foolish men. They can’t draw in Light and become Radiant; they first must be approaching Radiance, and look for Light to fulfill the promise.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 642). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

It spent a lot of words saying what was obvious, and was exactly the sort of thing Dalinar had no patience for.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 647). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(Sounds a lot like Impromptu speaking, Dalinar and I would have an interesting relationship.) 

“They swarmed the city gates, threw them open in the rain, then moved out onto the plain surrounding the city. The next day, they demanded formal economic redress for improper appropriation of their labors. They claimed the subsection of the rules exempting parshmen from wages was extralegal, and put a motion through the courts. We were negotiating—a bizarre experience, I must say—before some of their leaders got them marching off instead.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 651). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(Tragedy. Sounds like they had a solid legal argument. Respect their passion for the legal system Odium!)

Dalinar finally settled onto one of the couches. Might as well eat something … except his cloth-wrapped lunch lay open, crumbs on the table, the wooden curry box empty save for a few drips. What on Roshar?

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 653). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(Ha! Got 'im)

He hopped up and began gathering his things. Shallan slipped forward and glanced inside his pack, catching sight of a small jar, sealed at the top. It was mostly black, but the side pointed toward her was instead white.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 676). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(:huh: Also, skipping the quote, Wit has money problems. HA!)

I believe there’s at least one god still worshipping me by accident.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 679). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(:huh:)

“Most days, Elhokar has trouble saving face, let alone cities.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 682). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(Zing! Though...is this too soon? It sort of feels too soon now.)

“I once knew a real axalacious bloke,” Kaladin said. “He was great at psychological fights.”

“Psychological fights?”

“He could really get inside someone’s head.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (pp. 690-691). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(Ha! Yes Kaladin!)

The highmarshal was of average height for an Alethi woman, maybe just under, and wore her hair straight and short, reaching halfway down her cheeks. Her eyes were orange, and she wore a side sword with a glistening silver basket hilt.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 697). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(<_< Obvious Vivenna is Obvious. We scrutinzed so hard!)

What about a charge of horses bearing men with spears, like the legends spoke of during the Shin invasion?

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 736). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(Shin invasion?!?)

Adolin sighed softly. “Of course. He’s probably their leader now or something. Storming bridgeboy.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 795). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(Green isn't a good color on Adolin, he should stick to Kholin Blue ;))

“That was … that was terrible,” she whispered, floating over to land on his shoulder. “Did we … just kill a spren?”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 813). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

(War just became real to Syl. She can't avoid thinking about actual loss forever.)

 

4

Elokhoar's scene was just so intense. I still can't find myself hating Moash. I'm so incredibly invested in his story, and this idea that Odium isn't just about hatred, but passionate emotion. I'm still looking forward to seeing more of this. Poor Kaladin. He tries so hard, but all of his work with Sah seems to have been for nothing. Another wound in his soul.

It was nice to get back to Adolin's POV, and awesome to get some confirmation that he kept the knife, but it really seems like too little too late at this point. Is anything going to happen with Sadeas's death?

King T is a Stoneward. Huh. So what order is Amaram going to end up being?

King... T... Stoneward? I am confused 

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I need to take a pause after finishing Part Three. To sleep on it, even though it's only 9:30pm and I certainly could otherwise read for another 2-3 hours even on a weeknight. I made it past the Venli Interlude #7 following it, then just had to stop and collect myself.

Because Almighty, what a finish to Part Three.

Hi Vivenna. What's that Shardblade you carry that you can't dismiss, but also don't need to sheathe, and doesn't sever on All Three Realms, like a certain evil-destroying artifact from your past? Nightblood As He Should Have Been?

Oh, Moash. Just when I thought you could... Bah. And giving the Bridge Four salute to Kaladin there... I think you broke him. You broke Kaladin! The man you owe everything to. You're of the Ten Traitors now, you bastard.

Oh, Elhokar. I had so been hoping Shallan would do a Bluth style inspirational sketch for you.

Is that white spren Eshonai, who like the Fused spren, is the soul of a listener who refused to pass on?

Edited by robardin
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On 11/14/2017 at 0:02 PM, Daishi5 said:

Wow, I finally got something kind of right:

 

Or at least Dalinar is just as wrong as I am, in which case he is doomed.

I assumed the Parshmen behaved like the people of their land was because of Connection. When they got forms back they bonded with the cities they were in. 

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Oh my storms.... I just finished part three. 

I... ugh.

I need a minute.

...

Thats where this was all going, Sanderson? All that work with amazing characters to have them kill each other? And Elhokar?? He was about to swear the Ideals!! Storm you, Moash. I don’t want to see a redemption arc anymore. I hope you go Odious so well, and then Odium himself tosses you aside like a rag doll, then you limp back to Kaladin, and get a spear in the eye. That’s what I want.

*Sigh* /rantover

I don’t think I’ve been that involved in this book—any book—like the last half of Part Three. Dalinar’s flashbacks with the Rift were fittingly, and unexpectedly, more painful than I thought, and his remembering at the worst time is just storming unfortunate. 

Shallan’s arc finally making some positive headway—thanks Hoid! He brought back a lot of respect for me after his fight in Secret History. I hope all that Shallan-growing-up-ness wasn’t wasted by whatever comes next. Totally love that Adolin likes Shallan as Veil, now that they’re all mixed together.

Kaladin...oh you poor thing. That will have ruined you. I just don’t see how anything will move forward now, but I’m sure it will be amazing.

 

Other things:

-Well, hello, Vivenna, you’ve sure grown up! Is it wrong that I ship her with Kaladin instead of Vasher?

Speaking of which, what are the odds of her actually getting a Nahel bond? Could be interesting...

-Wonder what happened to Hoid in the fray...

-Storms. I’m gonna sleep and cry for a while. RIP Elhokar, and Storm you Brandon for making him worth caring about right before you wrenched him away!

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Just now, Leyrann said:

Sums up the first half of this book...

I knew something awful was going to happen but lil old optimistic me was thinking, okay, this will be the moment it all turns around. Elhokar finally gets to be the hero he wanted to be. Aaaand then Moash. He’s worse than Amaram, and Sadeas. Worse than young Dalinar to me right now. 

And we know Brandon only put his chapters in part two just to show how he got here fighting with the Voibringers just to wreck Kaladin’s day. Ughhhhh.

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6 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

King... T... Stoneward? I am confused 

It really, really seems like we're going that direction.

Quote

As a Stoneward, I spent my entire life looking to sacrifice myself. I secretly worry that is the cowardly way. The easy way out. —From drawer 29-5, topaz

58 Burdens

Quote

“Does it matter? One wrongly imprisoned man? One murder in an alley that a proper policing force could have stopped? The burden for the blood of those wronged must rest somewhere. I am the sacrifice. We, Dalinar Kholin, are the sacrifices. Society offers us up to trudge through dirty water so others may be clean.” He closed his eyes. “Someone has to fall, that others may stand.”

86 That Other May Stand

It's not confirmed, but in my eyes everything but. The sentiments expressed there are so similar. It seem like at this point it would be stranger for him not to manifest as a Stoneward.

Edited by Fifth of Daybreak
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Well, this part was one that I felt like I had waited an age for.

I remember reading Sabariel by Garth Nix in late 2000s, and some of the words were like jewels.  I've been searching for similar ones, and barring words from The End by Lemony Snicket and Lois McMaster Bujold's Borders to Infinity, nothing had come close.

Part 3 has those in multitude like a sea of beads.

Kaladin's dialogue with Beard/Azure/Syl are some.  Perhaps Azure (which I now realise might be Vivienna after reading this thread) is holding Taln's honorblade also has some gorgeous dialogue with Kaladin.

Quote

Beard shrugged. "Let's just say, I know a lot about telling which stories have been made up.  Nobody's watching over us, Kal."

.....

"Every child eventually realizes that her father isn't actually God."  She looked at him.  "Do you think anybody is watching?  Do you really think there isn't anything out there?"

 

Dalinar's dialogues with on his return from the ambush have the raw power the expansive description make the scenes more visually rich.

Quote

Dalinar glanced toward a sphere lantern, which had a polished metal surface.  The man who looked back seemed more Voidbringer than man, face crusted over with blackened blood, hair matted with it, blue eyes wide, jaw clenched.  He was sliced with what seemed to be a hundred wounds, his padded uniform in tatters. 

....

Oh, and someone take my wife to her tent so she may recover from her unwarranted grief.

1

There's more, but chapter 74, 75 and 76 are some of the most powerful chapters except the ending of Part 3.

Elhokar's death is an unexpected blow and so is the capture of his son.

This part has a Star Wars "The Empire Strikes Back" vibe.  But god, it's been the best so far of the book.

And loved Hoid in there.  He was muted somewhat, but I think the whole of Part 3 was on such a high octave that there was very little space for even Wit to loosen up. 

 

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55 minutes ago, axcellence said:

Perhaps Azure (which I now realise might be Vivienna after reading this thread) is holding Taln's honorblade also has some gorgeous dialogue with Kaladin.

Doesn't fit the description. My guess is Vivenna has invested her own Blade. Probably not enough to fully awaken the sword, but enough to give it the kick it needs to cut through stone. 

Quote

To his side, he carried a massive Shardblade, point down, sticking about a finger’s width into the stone, his hand on the hilt. The Blade reflected torchlight; it was long, narrow, and straight, shaped like an enormous spike.

 

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3 hours ago, Rider of Storms said:

-Well, hello, Vivenna, you’ve sure grown up! Is it wrong that I ship her with Kaladin instead of Vasher?

Speaking of which, what are the odds of her actually getting a Nahel bond? Could be interesting...

...

-Storms. I’m gonna sleep and cry for a while. RIP Elhokar, and Storm you Brandon for making him worth caring about right before you wrenched him away!

Yeah, the Elhokar and Moash scene made me have to stop for a night too.

But sign me up for Team Kalazure!

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3 hours ago, Fifth of Daybreak said:

My guess is Vivenna has invested her own Blade. Probably not enough to fully awaken the sword, but enough to give it the kick it needs to cut through stone. 

Or possibly, as I put it, Nightblood As He Should Have Been: an Awakened sword with a much more specific Command that we don't know yet what it is.

 

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5 minutes ago, robardin said:

Or possibly, as I put it, Nightblood As He Should Have Been: an Awakened sword with a much more specific Command that we don't know yet what it is.

 

A less ambitious command would make sense, but my guess is that it's just significantly less Invested - Enough that it can withstand Nightblood, but not enough to gain sapience. 

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13 minutes ago, Tarion said:

A less ambitious command would make sense, but my guess is that it's just significantly less Invested - Enough that it can withstand Nightblood, but not enough to gain sapience. 

I think that's really the same thing. NB was the first experiment in Awakening steel, requiring the Ninth Heightening just to perform, plus whatever amount of Breath was needed to give the Command - which from more mundane examples of Awakening, depends on the complexity of the Command.

I think Shashara underestimated the complexity of DESTROY EVIL, or mentally waffled on the exact meaning when she gave the Command's Intent, resulting in a huge amount of Breath being put into Nightblood, turning it black and actually requiring exponentially more Investiture from its wielder over time of use.

Whatever Command was given to Vivenna's/Azure's sword was simple and clear enough to fully "seal" like most Awakened things.

But this is segueing into a discussion for the Warbreaker forum.

 

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6 hours ago, Rider of Storms said:

 

-Well, hello, Vivenna, you’ve sure grown up! Is it wrong that I ship her with Kaladin instead of Vasher?

No. I didnt read WB and thought Azure is the new intriguing character. That didnt prevent me from feeling the connection between her and Kaladin. Kalazure would be nice.

Edited by Harbour
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41 minutes ago, Tarion said:

A less ambitious command would make sense, but my guess is that it's just significantly less Invested - Enough that it can withstand Nightblood, but not enough to gain sapience. 

 The command could be along the lines of "Cut things" or "Cut everything"  It's simple and its what any sword would like to do.

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What does it say of me that I took the deaths in this part in stride (they were sad, but no tears were shed), and yet I bawled like a baby when in part 2 Hobber healed his legs and when Skar first helped Lyn become a Squire and later became one himself?

I'd like to think it points to how I view death as something that happens to everyone, but healing and helping are things people need to actively do.

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The Girl Who Looked up was a masterpiece of a chapter, Dalinar's flashbacks were unbearably tragic...and Elhokars death scene, along with the deaths of Sah and Beard and Noro, was amazing. Moash, in particular, has surpassed all expectations I had for him as a great charcter. 

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