Jump to content

[OB] Interlude 3!


Chaos

Recommended Posts

I believe that the back cover for the book refers to Venli....

Quote

The Traitor, broken by ambition, seeks freedom.

Thia fits Venli far more than it does Eshonai. She would be the person broken by ambition and seeking freedom.....just one more nail in Eshonai's coffin I suppose. The Sleepless aren't even concerned with her.

 

Edited by Nymeros
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will miss Eshonai, what we got of her before she turned Stormform I liked. That said, I hope she stays dead because there have been enough fake outs in SA. 

I think the Unmade are in part Listeners whose physical forms were "Unmade" and merged with a piece of Odium. From Words of Radiance http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Words_of_Radiance:_Chapter_79 :

What does it mean, soldier?" Dalinar asked.

"It means our gods have returned," Rlain whispered.

"Who are your gods?"

"They are the souls of those ancient. Those who gave of themselves to destroy." 

"Gave of themselves to destroy" sounds like beings that sacrificed something. In this case perhaps their physical forms to become powerful spren merged with pieces of Odium. Some of they aren't Sapient, so it is hard to see them commanding an army. However, the Diagram believes that some of them can think. From Chapter 81 Epigraph:

"The Unmade are a deviation, a flair, a conundrum that may not be worth your time. You cannot help but think of them. They are fascinating. Many are mindless. Like the spren of human emotions, only much more nasty. I do believe a few can think, however."

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Words_of_Radiance/Epigraphs

 

Edited by Child of Hodor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Nymeros said:

I believe that the back cover for the book refers to Venli....

She would be the person broken by ambition and seeking freedom.....just one more mail in Eshonai's coffin I suppose. The Sleepless aren't even concerned with her.

 

Yup, ambition to be the queen... said it herself!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do not think Eshonai is dead. Well, she is "dead", but she died by drowning and drowning victims can often be revived a long time after... well having drowned. As thus, I wouldn't be surprised if she "healed". The comet spren is obviously the same one as the spren which flew away from her back in WoR. We have a WoB which confirms this spren is "relevant to one of the orders".

I say it looks pretty well for Eshonai to be "revived" and to join an order. 

Venli however is beyond scary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, maxal said:

I do not think Eshonai is dead. Well, she is "dead", but she died by drowning and drowning victims can often be revived a long time after... well having drowned. As thus, I wouldn't be surprised if she "healed". The comet spren is obviously the same one as the spren which flew away from her back in WoR. We have a WoB which confirms this spren is "relevant to one of the orders".

I say it looks pretty well for Eshonai to be "revived" and to join an order. 

Venli however is beyond scary.

Yes they can be revived but you have about 5 minutes to do so before they are brain dead. This entire scene would have taken more than that and that’s already after they found her DOA. 

She’s dead. If she can be revived it’s some magical way and I just don’t see Brandon doing that again under these circumstances. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In case anyone missed it, this Interlude is titled 'The Rhythm of the Lost.' Why is that significant? Every one-off Interlude shares the same name as the perspective. Since this isn't called Venli, that means she will be the repeating PoV throughout the Interludes. Her being the Traitor on the back of cover gains a lot of merit from that fact, IMO. Sad as I am to say it, I don't think Eshonai is coming back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Varenus said:

Looks like there is merit to the "Eshoni is the author of Oathbringer" theory after all! Honestly though, I still lean toward Dalinar as the author. 

Also, Is Ulim saying he is a Redemption Spren or that it escaped Redemption Spren? If he is Redemption Spren, I don't see the redemption part of its character. It seems more like Retribution Spren or something by the way it talks.

Well Syl hardly screams honor and nobility.....

According to google,

Redemption is the action of regaining or gaining possession of something in exchange for payment, or clearing a debt.

 

So Ulim as a spren of redemption (if that is what he literally is) takes the form of a shifty middleman.....seems legit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, dantlee said:

So if Eshonai is really and truly dead, was Brandon just straight up lying about her getting a book in the SA? Or is there still going to be an Eshonai-centric book, just via flashback sequences?

It wouldn't be a lie. He straight up said he would do a flashback sequence for a character even if the character is dead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eshonai flashbacks would be perfect for a book dealing with the humans struggling to forge a partnership with the Listeners or a book with a heavy focus on exploration or discovery.

It would allow Venli (who is way more compelling) a flashback sequence by association.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Still though, it would be exceedingly weird for him to do an Eshonai book past here.  She's dead in the first 30% of Oathbringer, so when would her flashback book be?

By the time we get to her flashback book, it would have been 1000 pages and 3-4 years since she died, and that's assuming that Book 4 is her flashback book.

Is it possible that she's just barely alive, and the shardplate's been eating away at her stormlight supply to heal, like it did to Kaladin in the duel?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the one hand Noooooo Eshonai.

On the other hand whew the main character death is done, that should get us one or two more books before I have to start getting worried again.

That said I'm going to maintain a healthy amount of skepticism here that she's actually dead.

One possibility is that she's dead but not out of the story I think that her book could still have her as the POV character but she'll be narrating it from the cognitive realm. Ala secret history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Unhinged said:

One possibility is that she's dead but not out of the story I think that her book could still have her as the POV character but she'll be narrating it from the cognitive realm. Ala secret history.

Considering how mega-CR and cognitive related the Back 5 are looking to be, having Eshonai's flashback book and (possibly the Willshaper order) act as a transition makes sense.

ETA: Assuming this stuff comes toward the end of Book 4 or if Book 5 is "her" book...

Edited by Frostlander
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Fifth of Daybreak said:

I'm talking specifically about the voice from the prologue leading Venli and Klade to Szeth, the quote I provided.

The Unmade or even a Shard isn't disqualified from being the source of the voice.  Heck, I wouldn't drop dead to find out it was a Voidspren or Herald at this juncture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Unhinged said:

On the one hand Noooooo Eshonai.

On the other hand whew the main character death is done, that should get us one or two more books before I have to start getting worried again.

That said I'm going to maintain a healthy amount of skepticism here that she's actually dead.

One possibility is that she's dead but not out of the story I think that her book could still have her as the POV character but she'll be narrating it from the cognitive realm. Ala secret history.

I wouldn't call her a main character. She was the interlude focus last book. I think someone from all 3 books will probably go. One of the Kholins seems likely. Navani or Adolin would be devastating.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, this has gotta be what Brandon meant when he said that a character having a flashback book in the future was no guarantee of their survival to said book.  Interesting revelations here.  Makes me wonder at what being "Fused" means for the Listener, as clearly I think neither Venli or her once-mate are.  I gotta imagine that it is very unlike what we see between a proto-radiant and their spren.  Can't wait to find out more.

On a side note, I was pondering making Oathbringer the first book that I would listen to on audio, just so I could enjoy it on my commute.  But after having listened to this sample, I just can't get on board with the medium.  I'm sure the voice talent was doing wonderfully as far as these things go, but I could not get over the switching between voices of the same person.  Took me right out of it.  It's just not for me.  I'm glad that they released this sample, though, so that I could figure that out before dropping money on it.  to each their own.

Edited by DeployParachute
edit
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote
  • New Rhythm: Rhythm of Command, a stronger version of the Rhythm of Appreciation. The pairing is a little weird, but okay.

@Argent

Hmm, I think none of the Parshendi counsel wanted to "command" and always asked nicely "I really appreciate it if you can ... ". 

Quote
  • Venli has been following Ulim's guidance to discover stormform in the first place. Fits nicely with Eshonai's suspicions from Words of Radiance that Venli had been hiding things from her.

I previously thought that the gem Gavilar gave to Eshonai had the great spren in it. Did Venli release Ulim from the gem or it came from somewhere else? In the first case, that powerful spren is the Everstorm itself?

Quote
10 hours ago, Argent said:
  • And on the topic of Eshonai being dead... I don't think she is truly dead. We know something is wrong with the afterlife on Roshar, so I expect we'll see her again in Shadesmar sometime in the future. 

Syl told Kaladin that he is the weird one. A spren dead is still a spren, break a rock and it's still there. But human beings miss something and become meat. Now that we know that the Listener have gemhearts, does this mean that their dead are still Listeners and probably can be talked to, or revived?

At least in the first case, ancestors taking the leadership makes more sense.

On Eshonai dying. Finally! I really didn't like her character. Venli being the traitor and seeking redemption is a better story than Eshonai. Being a traitor (knowingly do something) is different than being dumb/charmed (Eshonai unwillingly taking control and summoning everstorm).

1 hour ago, StormingTexan said:

He also said the flashback character could be dead. 

I always thought he meant Dalinar. Still we don't know everything, but I'll trade Eshonai for Dalinar every day.

4 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

"The Unmade are a deviation, a flair, a conundrum that may not be worth your time. You cannot help but think of them. They are fascinating. Many are mindless. Like the spren of human emotions, only much more nasty. I do believe a few can think, however."

I don't think that the unmade are in command. Seeking death and destruction isn't the same as planning. Human beings can think but not everyone is a commander and they should be exceptional at it. The way Ulim talked about the commanders made me think of some ageless Listeners

 

7 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Ok, totally looney theory here, but what the heck.

What if the Shin are Odium's people? More specifically, what if they are the lighteyes of Odium and the Listeners are the darkeyes?

Some supporting facts:

Yixli, the Spren seen by Kaladin in the meetup city for the awakened parshmen is described as having Shin eyes, also the strange manner in which the stone  always rises up to meet her feet.

In the Interlude venli describes Ulim the spren as looking like a human, but with strange eyes. Could they be perhaps Shin eyes?

Now the big shocker, the honor blades were gather by the shins after Aharietiam because they were meant to be kept out of the hands of the opponents of Odium.

This is more along the lines of this speculation, but what if Szeth was named truthless because he took up the sword, not to fight against the desolation, but to fight for it. Perhaps the Stone  Shamans back in Shinovar are the ageless masters that Ulim speaks of as well.

I'm sure this theory will be shot down in short order, but interesting to think about.

 

Let's shut it down.

First of all, spren are physically manifested ideas, or something to that effect. So people can imagine them however they want.

Secondly, Nale went there and took his blade from them. Wouldn't he kill odium's people? Why did they give it back? The honorblade in hands of people, particularly the Church would destroy humankind. The instrument of the almighty would be used to create a Vorin world and the Sunmaker couldn't defeat them.They were lucky that shin have safeguarded the blades. 

Nothing is known yet on why Szeth thought the knights are returning and a new desolation is coming. Was he a scholar like Jasnah? Did he figure it out beforehand but was cast away? Either way Nale wouldn't accept some associate of odium in his ranks. Plus their meeting at the end of WoR, Nale is considered one of shin's Gods.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, lastofus said:

Let's shut it down.

Agreed, it was really just the appeal of the highly improbable long con, the seemingly peace loving society secretly harboring the master plan of Odium, waiting for this the final desolation before they stuck the knife in the back of the world. Interesting to speculate, but not really a great narrative route to go down. I can agree that this is not a highly productive route for speculation, consider it dead and buried (though no stone was harmed in the burial of this theory).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm surprised to see that so many people disliked Eshonai. She was always one of my favorite characters. 

Maybe it's for the best that she died, whatever Brandon's plans are, I don't think he would write a whole book about a character whose story ended after a couple of interludes at the bottom of a chasm. Dying opens up a lot of interesting things that could happen. Even if it is only flashbacks, I'm certain Brandon still has plenty in store for her character. 

I love Venli as a villain and source of information, and I'm glad we finally got her pov. But compared to Eshonai's potential Willshaper story, her ambition to become a queen is much less engaging to me.  It's early enough that her motivations could change, we'll see. I do expect to see a lot more of some of Odium's forces that are closer to the ones in control, which will be very exciting. There's a lot of potential for Venli's story.

I will dearly miss Eshonai though. 

Edited by Ciridae
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Ciridae said:

I'm surprised to see that so many people disliked Eshonai. She was always one of my favorite characters. 

Maybe it's for the best that she died, whatever Brandon's plans are, I don't think he would write a whole book about a character whose story ended after a couple of interludes at the bottom of a chasm. Dying opens up a lot of interesting things that could happen. Even if it is only flashbacks, I'm certain Brandon still has plenty in store for her character. 

I love Venli as a villain and source of information, and I'm glad we finally got her pov. But compared to Eshonai's potential Willshaper story, her ambition to become a queen is much less engaging to me.  It's early enough that her motivations could change, we'll see. I do expect to see a lot more of some of Odium's forces that are closer to the ones in control, which will be very exciting. There's a lot of potential for Venli's story.

I will dearly miss Eshonai though. 

Ok got another strange idea... From my previous post:

49 minutes ago, lastofus said:

Syl told Kaladin that he is the weird one. A spren dead is still a spren, break a rock and it's still there. But human beings miss something and become meat. Now that we know that the Listener have gemhearts, does this mean that their dead are still Listeners and probably can be talked to, or revived?

At least in the first case, ancestors taking the leadership makes more sense.

On Eshonai dying. Finally! I really didn't like her character. Venli being the traitor and seeking redemption is a better story than Eshonai. Being a traitor (knowingly do something) is different than being dumb/charmed (Eshonai unwillingly taking control and summoning everstorm).

Now that Eshonai died, and now that there's a chance that their "dead" ancestors are commanding the army, does that mean Eshonai is now an Elder and can influence other Listeners? Maybe have a revolt or something. Or what @Argent said..

11 hours ago, Argent said:
  • That comet-like spren Eshonai had been seeing shows up again. I know some people like it for a Radiant spren, but I still think it's a piece of her own soul, the piece that got displaced when the stormspren possessed her.

The spren could be Eshonai in some sense. Maybe the spren was "transformed by collective human her imagination into a personification of one of their her ideals." And that could influence Venli in some way. Along the lines that Venli tries to see her sister in the spren. If it dances her sister is happy with what Venli is doing at the moment etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, lastofus said:

Nothing is known yet on why Szeth thought the knights are returning and a new desolation is coming. Was he a scholar like Jasnah? Did he figure it out beforehand but was cast away? Either way Nale wouldn't accept some associate of odium in his ranks. Plus their meeting at the end of WoR, Nale is considered one of shin's Gods.

I've had a theory for a while that Szeth was once a Stone Shaman. I wanted to publish it, but I couldn't enter theoryland to get the supporting WoBs and restarted reading OB part one around the time the new WoB archive came up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DeployParachute said:

Well, this has gotta be what Brandon meant when he said that a character having a flashback book in the future was no guarantee of their survival to said book.  Interesting revelations here.  Makes me wonder at what being "Fused" means for the Listener, as clearly I think neither Venli or her once-mate are.  I gotta imagine that it is very unlike what we see between a proto-radiant and their spren.  Can't wait to find out more.

On a side note, I was pondering making Oathbringer the first book that I would listen to on audio, just so I could enjoy it on my commute.  But after having listened to this sample, I just can't get on board with the medium.  I'm sure the voice talent was doing wonderfully as far as these things go, but I could not get over the switching between voices of the same person.  Took me right out of it.  It's just not for me.  I'm glad that they released this sample, though, so that I could figure that out before dropping money on it.  to each their own.

Audio definitely isn't for everyone, but you might still enjoy Graphic Audio if you've never tried that. Who knows when Oathbringer will be done by GA, but the first two are pretty great in my opinion. It doesn't suffer from the problem you mention, though it does suffer from others of course.

Strangely enough, I used to hate audiobooks, but now it's my preferred medium. I'm not really sure what changed. Although I actually read along with it anyway, most of the time. Especially for SA because of the art and epigraphs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...