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[OB] Interlude 3!


Chaos

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Oh, boy. It's double fake Tuesday! This was supposed to come out on Monday (fake Tuesday), but it's Sunday today, so double fake Tuesday!

Let's see.

  • New Rhythm: Rhythm of Command, a stronger version of the Rhythm of Appreciation. The pairing is a little weird, but okay.
  • Ulim seems to have the same "physiology" as Yixli - strange eyes, human shape, though he is obviously a different type of voidspren.
  • Venli has been following Ulim's guidance to discover stormform in the first place. Fits nicely with Eshonai's suspicions from Words of Radiance that Venli had been hiding things from her.
  • And speaking of Eshonai, I do think she is dead. Blade hadn't disappeared, and I'd imagine two listeners can correctly identify a dead one.
  • Eshonai's Shardplate is "said to regrow on its own, even now that it's separated from its master from so long ago". I found this to be one of the most interesting bits in this interlude. Unfortunately I can't make much of it. Ulim describes that relationship between him and the Venli's ancestors - either the Unmade or maybe ancient listener cognitive shadows - is one where he is a servant, and they are presumably masters. So it could be a similar kind of relationship, but the Plate  has been separated from its master. This may lend credence to the theory that Shardplate is crafted from lesser spren - windspren, in the case of the Windrunners, for example. In which case the greater spren, the honorspren, would be the masters, while the lesser, much more mindless ones, would serve as building blocks in the physical realm.
  • Ulim says he is a spren of redemption. Whatever that means.
  • That comet-like spren Eshonai had been seeing shows up again. I know some people like it for a Radiant spren, but I still think it's a piece of her own soul, the piece that got displaced when the stormspren possessed her.
  • And on the topic of Eshonai being dead... I don't think she is truly dead. We know something is wrong with the afterlife on Roshar, so I expect we'll see her again in Shadesmar sometime in the future. 
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4 minutes ago, Beatsmorn said:

Jasnah was legitimately stabbed through heart, but it is not lethal for Surgebinder as long as he has stormlight. And no offence, but what you say sounds so ridiculous xD I just can't stand it, you guys make one dumb theory after another completely missing the most basic explanation. Occam's razor anybody?
 

Once again - no offence, i know what waiting for 3 year for a next book can do to a person <3

 

The traveling organ thing was a total joke, thought that it being framed by the Princess Bride reference would give it the jokey context that it was supposed to have. The real point was bringing up the fact that Eshonai, as the most likely canidate for being an Willshaper, would have had access to the surge of transportation. I don't think we have enough information about how this surge works for proper speculation on how this might help her to not be mostly dead, but I think it's a valid point.

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Quote
  1. WHAT DO YOU MEAN SHE’S DEAD IN A DITCH?

........I was wondering who this could be but never thought it was Eshonai. I'm not sure how I feel about this.

 

Eshonai it would seem will never be radiant and she is one of the characters who will have a flashback sequence while dead. And this after providing an awesome prologue.

 

Redemption spren? Taking the form or red lightning? Wow. 

 

................

 

Good chapter....I've listened 3 times already.

Edited by Nymeros
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6 minutes ago, Argent said:
  • That comet-like spren Eshonai had been seeing shows up again. I know some people like it for a Radiant spren, but I still think it's a piece of her own soul, the piece that got displaced when the stormspren possessed her.
  • And on the topic of Eshonai being dead... I don't think she is truly dead. We know something is wrong with the afterlife on Roshar, so I expect we'll see her again in Shadesmar sometime in the future. 

This is the only way I could see Eshonai being alive somehow. But how do we know something is wrong with the afterlife on roshar?

Also, Ulim escaped something. Or someone. It's really unclear. And is taking orders from the Parshendi's ancestors, either as the Unmade or Cognitive Shadows.

Edited by DiamondMind
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3 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

I'm mad now. 

JUST BECAUSE YOU DIDNT KILL OFF ANYONE BIG IN THE LAST BOOK WASNT GIVING YOU PERMISSION TO KILL OFF ESHONAI GOSH DARN IT

........at least she'll get a flashback sequence bro....she was more interesting as a young explorer than as a war leader any way.

At least this explains why Brandon didn't invest a lot of effort into fleshing out her struggles with leadership.....she was just a red (and black) herring.

Edited by Nymeros
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10 minutes ago, DiamondMind said:

This is the only way I could see Eshonai being alive somehow. But how do we know something is wrong with the afterlife on roshar?

I've seen a WoB to that effect, but I am having a hard time finding it right now... 

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Roses are red
Violets are blue
I can't rhyme 
Eshonai becomes the Wllshaper

I don't think she's dead. In that case, the ending of the scene wouldn't make any sense in terms of storytelling. I bet she will be healed in highstorm and then there will be cliffhanger of her trying to not drown. And in next chapter we will see that she Elsecalled by accident. I can bet my money on that.

[CRAZY THEORY]
Even if she's dead, she may be not gone - maybe we will get afterlife chapters from Eshonai. We know from WoB and text that something is wrong with Roshar' afterlife - for example, Cognitive Shadows on Braize or Soulcaster' Oathbringer interlude.

[EVEN CRAZIER THEORY WITH NOT EVEN HALF-VALID PROOF]
Unmade are made of collective consiousness of dead Listeners' and next 3 books will contain several chapters of Eshonai screaming of torment inside Re-Shephnir.

Edited by Beatsmorn
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38 minutes ago, hoser said:

So the spren follows the sword?  I haven't seen any hints that livespren feel particular attachments to particular deadspren, but it seems possible.  Venli doesn't seem like a candidate for Radiance, at least not the same order as Eshonai.

Spren following the sword?  That’s a leap that I was not implying.

Venli sees the spren... and spren can remain hidden. Hence the suggestion that there is a reason why Venli can see it.

 

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22 minutes ago, Argent said:

I've seen a WoB to that effect, but I am having a hard time finding it right now... 

Quote

FeatherWriter

Is something wrong with Roshar's afterlife?

Brandon Sanderson

Uh, why do you ask?

FeatherWriter

Because of the Tranquiline Halls stuff? Needing to reclaim them?

Brandon Sanderson

Um. So, I'm... not going to answer anything about Roshar's afterlife.

Courtesy of http://wob.coppermind.net - Arcanum

Edited by axcellence
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6 minutes ago, axcellence said:

Spren following the sword?  That’s a leap that I was not implying.

Venli sees the spren... and spren can remain hidden. Hence the suggestion that there is a reason why Venli can see it.

I know it wasn't what you were saying.  But if the spren had been trying to bond Eshonai as a Radiant, then Venli seems unlikely, particularly for the same order. as there interests and personalities seem different to me.  So if the spren is trying to do the same thing with Venli that it had been with Eshonai, then what was it trying to do?  What do they have in common besides mothers, Listener leadership and the sword?

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54 minutes ago, axcellence said:

Venli sees the spren... and spren can remain hidden. Hence the suggestion that there is a reason why Venli can see it.

Spren can remain hidden from humans, but not from listeners: they apparently see all of the spren. There are lots of examples that show this, the most obvious is probably the listeners being able to see Yixli while Kaladin couldn't. Also, it's probably a result of Horneaters being human-listener hybrids that Rock can see the spren as well.

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Quote

Klade’s slave was an assassin. Klade claimed that a voice—speaking to the rhythms—had led him to the man, who had confessed his skills when pressed. Venli had apparently been with Klade, though Eshonai hadn’t seen her sister since earlier in the day. 

Prologue

 
1

 

How does this match up with Ulim calling them traitors? Is this confirmation that Venli was the Listener Proto-Radiant?

Edited by Fifth of Daybreak
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Just now, Fifth of Daybreak said:

 

 

How does this match up with Ulim calling them traitors? Is this confirmation that Venli was the Listener Proto-Radiant?

Calling them traitors is a two-fold thing, I think, because each action prevented the return of voidspren at the minimum:

1) The Listeners that ended up at Narak had ancestors who deliberately broke themselves away from their gods by choosing dullform.

2) Eshonai and the other leaders arranged for Gavilar's death so that he wouldn't cause a Desolation to begin, which slowed down the return of Odium-sourced affiliates.

 

I do think the ancestors are the Unmade, though.

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5 minutes ago, dvoraen said:

Calling them traitors is a two-fold thing, I think, because each action prevented the return of voidspren at the minimum:

1) The Listeners that ended up at Narak had ancestors who deliberately broke themselves away from their gods by choosing dullform.

2) Eshonai and the other leaders arranged for Gavilar's death so that he wouldn't cause a Desolation to begin, which slowed down the return of Odium-sourced affiliates.

 

I do think the ancestors are the Unmade, though.

I'm talking specifically about the voice from the prologue leading Venli and Klade to Szeth, the quote I provided.

Edited by Fifth of Daybreak
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Come on, from a first book she's portrayed like person who embodies like all the virtues of Willshapers, she was pretty important to the plot and she still has so much potential for interesting story. I don't believe Brandon would kill her like this, he's not George R. R. F*ing Martin.

We'll see soon, won't we? :D

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