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[OB] Oathbringer chapters 31 & 32


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3 minutes ago, Unknowingly said:

This seems important somehow. Why would the Fused that imitate Windrunner abilities cause Syl pain? Could it be possible that the Fused are bonded with an Honor Spren that has been corrupted somehow, similar to shardblades, and that is why Syl reacts like she has? What do you all think?

Good idea. I originally thought just because it was of Odium but that may be a real possibility. 

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Our yellow-spren is named Yixli and is almost certainly a Voidbringer.  Actually I realized that I missed an obvious clue in the last Kaladin chapter: Yixli couldn't sense an approaching highstorm, but did predict an approaching Everstorm.  Oops!  Definitely a voidspren.

Voidspren does not necessarily mean irredeemably evil though.  All sentient beings seem to have degrees of free will in Sanderson's universe.  Remember that Syl alone of all honorspren chose to seek out a Windrunner against the Stormfather's wishes.  We also have WOB that other honorspren may intrepret "honor" in more cruel ways.  Even among a relatively specific type of spren, there is room for individual variance and choice.

The example of the Kandra is also important.  Being made of humalurgy, on a creation level they were more of ruin than preservation, yet they chose to live in such a way that they chose to be of preservation.

There are clearly some voidspren that exhibit disturbing levels of mental control over their hosts as with Eshonai, but just as not all Listeners are evil I don't think all spren from the other side of the conflict are necessarily evil either.  Even hatred (at injustice/slavery for example) can be right in the correct circumstance.  There is a time for every purpose under heaven, etc.

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Also worth noting, emphasis mine:

Quote

“You can fight alongside us, Kal. It doesn’t have to be about humans against parshmen. It can be nobler than that. Oppressed against the oppressors.”

While with the Listeners, Kaladin has reverted to his childhood nickname of Kal.  I wonder, is this their choice, or his?  If he told/allowed them to call him Kal, is this a sign that he subconciously realizes that the idealism he is showing  for an instantaneous peaceful resolution is a bit childish, and so he uses the childish name he discarded in his youth when he decided to act more like an adult?

 

Or is it because of the relative youth of this society that he reverted to a younger version of his name?

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Not sure why people think the unmade-in-a-box theory is dead.  We've already seen one unmade trapped, were hinted that the others were pursued, and Gavilar VERY heavily implied that he'd trap an uber-spren in the OB prologue (that's what I'm calling greater spren from now on).

Also, having all of the fuss be over a bit of voidlight would be strange overall.  The Parshendi on the Shattered Plains didn't need any voidlight to adopt stormform, they needed spren.  At the moment, there's nothing to indicate that the voidlight is anything more than a mere powersource, just like how stormlight is power for radiants, but being exposed to it in no way makes someone more likely to be a radiant.  And we saw Re-Shephir try to forcibly bond Shallan in a previous chapter.  So Gavilar's plan could easily have been to release an unmade, have it forcibly bond a Parshendi, and start a new desolation.

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7 minutes ago, Unknowingly said:

This seems important somehow. Why would the Fused that imitate Windrunner abilities cause Syl pain? Could it be possible that the Fused are bonded with an Honor Spren that has been corrupted somehow, similar to shardblades, and that is why Syl reacts like she has? What do you all think?

Perhaps instead of corrupting a spren, they copy the abilities that sprens bond grants?  And Syl's pain was that Voidform's moment of copying.

I would like that better than each order having a seemingly equivalent mock voidform.  (Plus it fits with Stormform not really matching any Radiant order.)

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1 hour ago, Unknowingly said:

This seems important somehow. Why would the Fused that imitate Windrunner abilities cause Syl pain? Could it be possible that the Fused are bonded with an Honor Spren that has been corrupted somehow, similar to shardblades, and that is why Syl reacts like she has? What do you all think?

I’ve thought it would be interesting if the Surges that the KR’s use create Voids that the Fused can use. If true maybe they are stealing power from Syl. Which might also explain why the old KR’s abandoned their spren so that Voidbinders wouldn’t have a source of power. The problem is that there is almost no reason to think this other than a plus minus relationship in the terminology. 

Edited by QuantumHarmonix
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1 minute ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

Perhaps instead of corrupting a spren, they copy the abilities that sprens bond grants?  And Syl's pain was that Voidform's moment of copying.

I would like that better than each order having a seemingly equivalent mock voidform.  (Plus it fits with Stormform not really matching any Radiant order.)

Surgebinding is copied from the abilities granted by the Honorblades of the Heralds. So does this mean that the Voidbinders copied Surgebinders who copied the Heralds? I feel there has to be more than this.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Unknowingly said:

This seems important somehow. Why would the Fused that imitate Windrunner abilities cause Syl pain? Could it be possible that the Fused are bonded with an Honor Spren that has been corrupted somehow, similar to shardblades, and that is why Syl reacts like she has? What do you all think?

I think it is similar to how Wyndle said "Ow" when he blocked Nale's Honorblade in Rod form.  And she was able to swat the gloryspren.  There seems to be some contact available between spren, especially when in physical form.  So there was likely a cognitive aspect of the attack that she felt.

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“Our own city, Kal,” he whispered. “During my time as a slave, barely able to think, I still dreamed. I tried to imagine what it would be like to have my own home, my own life. Here it is.”

Huh, that's a city with a past. This was also a far less nefarious purpose behind all this marching around.

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Here, at long last, Kaladin found signs of the fight he’d expected during his initial trip to Alethkar. The gates to the inner city lay broken. The guardhouse had been burned, and arrowheads still stuck from some of the wood beams they passed. This was a conquered city.

Ah, nevermind. I thought the city had been abandoned for some reason...

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As they passed the place where Syl was, Kaladin swept his hand along the wall. Syl, as they’d practiced, zipped up the sleeve of his coat. He could feel her, like a gust of wind, move up his sleeve then out his collar, into his hair. The long curls hid her, they’d determined, well enough.

Aww, that's cute.

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“What towns, work camps, or armies do you all come from?” His voice had a strange cadence, similar to the Parshendi Kaladin had heard on the Shattered Plains. Some of those in Khen’s group had hints of it, but nothing this strong.

Sounds like Khen's group are beginning to attune to the Rhythms a little bit. It's probably natural, instinctual for them. Plus, we know that listeners default to whatever Rhythm most closely matches their mood. 

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“Well,” the scribe said, “it’s not unheard of, but you’ll have to get permission from one of the Fused to label him free.”

Oh, the Fused sound nice and cuddly. Can't wait to see one.

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There was carapace covering her cheeks, running back along the cheekbones and into her hair. The skin on her arms prickled with ridges, as if there were carapace under the skin as well. Her eyes glowed red.

Oh, yep. Great. Good stuff. Still, one is probably not going to be much of a problem, even without Stormlight. Let's see what goes wrong...

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Gloryspren burst up about Kaladin’s head.

Syl took on the form of a person just so she could glower at the little bobbing balls of light. “Mine,” she said, swatting one of them aside.

Hahahaha, oh, this is beautiful! The theorycrafter in me wants to worry if gloryspren are tied to another Radiant order, but the theorycrafter can be quiet for a moment, this is such a pure scene. 

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A blackish-violet glow—like dark Stormlight—rose from the red-eyed parshman. Kaladin cursed and Lashed himself into the air.

Oi. Here's the voidlight we've been waiting for. Probably. I mean, it's not like this thing is everywhere, and it has been some time since the Everstorm last hit. They probably have a way to store this in something, maybe gems, maybe different ones from the ones that hold Stormlight (though that would strike me as odd). Or, maybe they've just been holding it since the last Everstorm - the Voidbringers are better at holding it (or at least Stormlight) than the Radiants, though I don't know if even they should be able to hold it for days...

Or maybe it's just corrupted Stormlight - still Stormlight, but tainted by Odium's investiture.

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Another rose nearby, leaving a faint violet glow behind, flying as easily as he did.

Okay, so manipulation of Gravitation. This seems in line with the idea that Voidbinders - if that's what these are - would access the same Surges, but through a different "filter".

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A hundred windspren spun in as lines of light, twisting around his arm, wrapping it like ribbons. They surged with Light, then exploded outward in a blinding sheet, sweeping to Kaladin’s sides and parting the winds around him.

Kaladin stood with his hand toward the tempest, and deflected it. Like a stone in a swift-moving river stopped the waters, he opened a pocket in the storm, creating a calm wake behind him.

Huh. That... doesn't seem like a power either Windrunner Surge should be able to account for. The Radiants might be a little more complicated than previously assumed...

Chapter 32: Company

Aaand, we still don't know who the author of Oathbringer is. Fantastic.

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She still hadn’t been able to rid herself of the lingering chill she’d felt since her encounter with Re-Shephir a few hours back.

There have been some (vague) indications that feeling of cold might be tied to Odium in some ways, this might add a little bit of support to that idea.

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There was a deeper mystery beyond that, a wisp of something she’d glimpsed while intertwined with Re-Shephir. It made Shallan wonder if this spren wasn’t merely trying to understand humankind, but rather searching for something it itself had lost.

Had this creature—in distant, distant time beyond memory—once been human?

Reminds me of... Rlain's remark about the Parshendi gods. I don't remember the exact passage, but my impression of it was that the Unmade could've been ancient listeners who had given their souls to Odium. Makes me think of the Heralds, actually - maybe Odium wanted to create something similar, but not quite the same.

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At their head was Jasnah Kholin.

Nooooooooooooooooooo. Brandon you storm-cursed crem-covered bloody... THAT is how you end part 1!? That???

God, this book. It's going to ruin me. I'm out, I can't deal with this right now.

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18 minutes ago, Unknowingly said:

This seems important somehow. Why would the Fused that imitate Windrunner abilities cause Syl pain? Could it be possible that the Fused are bonded with an Honor Spren that has been corrupted somehow, similar to shardblades, and that is why Syl reacts like she has? What do you all think?

Do think perhaps it's because these Fused are the Windrunner's counterpart and somehow linked to anti-WIndrunner Un-made? Pattern was a mess when Shallan "entered" Re-Shiphir because Re-Shiphir was like a terrible, bastardized Creationspren.

Edited by Ramza1890
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16 minutes ago, Unknowingly said:

This seems important somehow. Why would the Fused that imitate Windrunner abilities cause Syl pain? Could it be possible that the Fused are bonded with an Honor Spren that has been corrupted somehow, similar to shardblades, and that is why Syl reacts like she has? What do you all think?

Maybe this is what happened with all of those discarded Shardblades that seem to be missing. Odium claimed them, woke the Spren and corrupted it to do his bidding. The yellow Spren might be an actual Honorspren, but one who has been broken in such a way that they now, basically, serve Odium.

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11 minutes ago, Stark said:

Also worth noting, emphasis mine:

While with the Listeners, Kaladin has reverted to his childhood nickname of Kal.  I wonder, is this their choice, or his?  If he told/allowed them to call him Kal, is this a sign that he subconciously realizes that the idealism he is showing  for an instantaneous peaceful resolution is a bit childish, and so he uses the childish name he discarded in his youth when he decided to act more like an adult?

 

Or is it because of the relative youth of this society that he reverted to a younger version of his name?

I interpreted this twofold: first is that since he's been home in Hearthstone so recently he's probably got his childhood name on his mind subconsciously. I also thought it may be because 'Kaladin' sounds like a man's name; an important lighteyes name, which was why he chose to take it on all those years ago. I think that having a more childish sounding name, or at least a less important name would allow Kal to blend in a bit more with the parshmen; give him a little bit of familiarity to them. Their names are all short and one syllable like Khen and Sah, so they might unconsciously trust him more if he had a name along their lines.

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I expected the last chapter to end with someone entering the room yelling "Stormblessed has returned", but it was "Yeah, i heard that bridge boy has returned". That was... refreshing.

Kaladin's spren fan base grows everyday anyway. Syl, Yixli, glorysprens, hundred of windsprens. Who's next? Unmade? Dude can't catch a break. 

Edited by Harbour
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11 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I doubt Voidbinding is just copying. I expect some level of similarity, but also a lot of differences. For example, can the Fused summon Voidblades (I hope they can, it sounds cool). 

Oh my gooooood voidblades sound so storming cool. I want to see that fight. 

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1 minute ago, Harbour said:

I expected the last chapter to end with someone entering the room yelling "Stormblessed has returned", but it was "Yeah, i heard that bridge boy has returned". That was... refreshing.

Kaladin's spren fan base grows everyday anyway. Syl, Yixli, glorysprens, hundred of windsprens. Who's next? Unmade? Dude can't catch a break. 

We need to get him a Pokedex ASAP

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So part 1 was setting everything up, I feel it was pretty slow overall, I think stuff will start accelerating in the next part, with  more action. Jasnah is back - we'll learn some of what she learned in Shadesmar. (We should start a betting pool for the epigraphs - I vote Jasnah.) Kaladin will tell Dalinar that not all of the Parshmen became evil. Stuff will happen.

I think the windbreak was Kaladin infusing the windspren with stormlight, I wonder what other interactions happen when you mix regular spren and stormlight. (Hmm..does anything interesting happen to nature spren during Highstorms?)

Also - Highstorm - one way super highway for Kaladin. 

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Kaladin: Some very interesting descriptions about the Voidbringers and their dark-Stormlight. I've said this before in another thread, but I love the direction this has taken with the parshmen/Voidbringers. So much more interesting than just "the Everstorm turned them all into mindless destroyers."

Shallan: I wasn't expecting to hear from her again in Part 1, but as soon as I read her name I knew Jasnah was returning. 


Overall, pretty good start to the book. As I noted above, the parshmen/Voidbringer setup is excellent and Kaladin's POV offered a nice insight into what is going on there. There is a lot to come with Dalinar starting to remember Evi, Jasnah returning, Kaladin returning, the Re-Shephir encounter, Ialai/Adolin/Sadeas, Amaran, Taravangian, the Dustbringer, the Ghostbloods... Man. I'm so excited for next week. With Jasnah coming back and from Brandon's comments, I think there is a really good chance Part 2 is going to have a pretty significant Cosmere/Shadesmar infodump, and I am so excited for every single little morsel we can get. Just one week away!

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I can't believe part one is done and we still don't know who wrote Oathbringer <_<

I read the scene with Syl and the gloryspren as her taking one for herself, because she had complained she couldn't attract spren, yet totally deserved gloryspren for her brilliance.

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