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Resonant Frequencies and the Shattered Plains


Andy92

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I've been tossing this theory around in my head this evening based on this sketch of the Shattered Plains in WoR.

Untitled drawing (2).jpg

Based on this sketch, it's pretty obvious that the Shattered Plains were formed based on radial symmetry. But why? Well, for a while I just wrote this off as, "Roshar is simply a symmetrical system." But why would a land mass of this size experience radial symmetry? Then I remembered this concept from physics.

sand-1.jpg

These are patterns of sand experiencing radial symmetry. The device that can create these patterns is known as a Chladni plate. The basic concept is that if you place a vibrating device in the center of a metal plate and tune the device to vibrate at certain resonant frequencies, the sand on the plate will automatically scramble around the plate in patterns of radial symmetry. This works because at resonance, certain parts of the plate experience no vibration at all (this is where the sand sits and doesn't move). The rest of the plate is vibrating so heavily that the sand pushes away from these sections.

This idea started forming in my head as to how an entire land mass could have potentially broken up into patterns experiencing perfect (or at least nearly perfect) radial symmetry. If some sort of resonant vibration could have occurred at the dead center of this land mass, then it seems plausible that the plains could have shattered around the center of this vibration with radial symmetry. So, what's at the center of the Shattered Plains?

The Oathgate at Narak. 

I got this info off the Coppermind.

Quote

This Oathgate is a perfectly circular plateau amongst the jagged and broken plateaus about which it is surrounded, which were created by some sort of disaster.

At the dead center of the Shattered Plains, we have an Oathgate sitting atop of a plateau. Does this have anything to do with how the Shattered Plains originated, and if so, how?

Quote

They blame our people
For the loss of that land.
The city that once covered it
Did range the eastern strand.
The power made known in the tomes of our clan
Our gods were not who shattered these plains.

According to the old Listener Songs, their gods (presumably of Odium, maybe the Unmade even), did not cause the plains to shatter. But, does the song seem to insinuate that some god did shatter them? 

If so, I have a potential idea based on my resonant frequency theory. The Stormfather.

See Schumann resonances:

Quote

Lightning discharges are considered to be the primary natural source of Schumann resonance excitation; lightning channels behave like huge antennas.

If lightning discharges have the ability to produce resonant frequencies, Roshar experiences frequent highstorms, and there is an Oathgate sitting atop a plateau at the center of the Shattered Plains...

I believe the plains shattered when lightning struck the Oathgate.

Now, it's very plausible that the phenomenon could be more related to Stormlight than lightning, because according to Navani's notebook, Stormlight appears to take on the form of symmetrical patterns inside of fabrial gemstones.

I've pretty much narrowed down my theory to a lightning strike or some sort of Stormlight surge in the Oathgate itself causing the shattering. 

In conclusion, I believe the Shattered Plains follow a Chladni pattern based on their radial symmetry. The pattern of the shattering was formed based on a large force (maybe lightning or Stormlight) producing a resonant frequency at the Oathgate in Narak. 

If you would like to see some of the power behind natural resonances, check out the history of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse in 1940. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Narrows_Bridge_(1940)

 

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Well...guess it's good I concluded the same thing that was mentioned in the book? :D

Didn't remember the Chladni plate from the book, but it's been a while since I've read tWoK. Was it in a sketch? 

I suppose the question left is what kind of assault caused the resonance? I think it could've been lightning from a highstorm, although a magic based attack would make sense too. 

 

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1 hour ago, Andy92 said:

So, what's at the center of the Shattered Plains?

The Oathgate at Narak. 

Except the Oathgate is not at the center of the Shattered Plains, but rather a bit off of it. That was how they found it in the book, because it disrupted the otherwise perfect radially symmetrical pattern of the plains. It remained while the rest of the plain shattered.

18 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

Didn't remember the Chladni plate from the book, but it's been a while since I've read tWoK. Was it in a sketch? 

 

Quote

He turned to his basket again, rummaging. He came out with—of all things—a metal plate. As she opened her mouth to ask a question, he held up his finger again and set the plate down on a small wooden stand that raised it a few inches above the tabletop.

Kabsal sprinkled white, powdery sand on the sheet of metal, coating it. Then he got out a bow, the kind drawn across strings to make music.

“You came prepared for this demonstration, I see,” Shallan noted. “You really did want to make your case to Jasnah.”

He smiled, then drew the bow across the edge of the metal plate, making it vibrate. The sand hopped and bounced, like tiny insects dropped onto something hot.

“This,” he said, “is called cymatics. The study of the patterns that sounds make when interacting with a physical medium.”

- Way of Kings, Chapter 33: Cymatics

 

Edited by Spoolofwhool
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6 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Except the Oathgate is not at the center of the Shattered Plains, but rather a bit off of it.

As long as it's close to the center, you'd still get pretty good radial symmetry if the source of the resonance occurred at the Oathgate. Won't be perfectly symmetrical, but you'll still get symmetrical looking patterns. So that might not line up exactly if the entire plains really do experience perfect symmetry. But thanks for the clarification on that one and for the passage where the plate was used by Kabsal. 

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1 hour ago, Andy92 said:

As long as it's close to the center, you'd still get pretty good radial symmetry if the source of the resonance occurred at the Oathgate. Won't be perfectly symmetrical, but you'll still get symmetrical looking patterns. So that might not line up exactly if the entire plains really do experience perfect symmetry. But thanks for the clarification on that one and for the passage where the plate was used by Kabsal. 

Problem with that is why was it offset in the first place if it's origin is the oathgate? Why wouldn't it just have formed around the oathgate? I'm guessing it actually originated in some sort of military or government building. Palace maybe?

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I don’t think anyone has yet mentioned this quote from WoR:

Quote

“Cymatics.”

. . .

“More than that,” [Shallan] said, standing. “I know too much now to die out here. The Shattered Plains are a pattern. This isn’t a natural rock formation.” Her eyes widened further. “At the center of these Plains was a city. Something broke it apart. A weapon . . . Vibrations? Like sand on a plate? An earthquake that could break rock . . . Stone became sand, and at the blowing of the highstorms, the cracks full of sand were hollowed out.”

This is from HC page 846. 

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In addition, I have another theory to offer: if you go to Kaladins talk with the Stormfather in WoR, he notices that when the Stormfather speaks 

"The voice shook everything. It was as if . . . as if the shaking of the plateau and his own body made the sounds for the voice." (pg 878 in Kindle)

Perhaps the shattering of the plains had something to do with the Stormfather, maybe even his creation?

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3 hours ago, Steelheart said:

In addition, I have another theory to offer: if you go to Kaladins talk with the Stormfather in WoR, he notices that when the Stormfather speaks 

"The voice shook everything. It was as if . . . as if the shaking of the plateau and his own body made the sounds for the voice." (pg 878 in Kindle)

Perhaps the shattering of the plains had something to do with the Stormfather, maybe even his creation?

The Stormfather is far older than the Shattered Plans in his original status and probably far younger as a composite entity.

Edited by Yata
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@Steelheart I do think the Listeners Song may suggest the shattering of the plains was the act of a "god" of some sort. Almost as if, "our gods didn't shatter these plains...but another god did." The timeline of the creation of the Stormfather doesn't match up as @Yata mentioned, but I think it's plausible he could have been involved in the event. 

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@Yata @Andy92 When I said "creation" I meant his gaining sentience - not the initial version of him (ie a highstorm). In response to Yata, we know that the Stormfather as we know him was created after Tanavasts death, which could match the timeline of the shattering of the plains, since (as far as we know) that happened after the Recreance. I always assumed the Stormfather came to be at the same time Tanavast died.  

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@Steelheart Gotcha. I would have to look at the timelines of when Tanavast died/merged with the Stormfather in reference to the shattering of the plains. Doubt those exact dates are known, but the general timelines probably are. 

I went digging through some old threads here on cymatics, and I couldn't find any concrete theories that proved why the plains were shattered. I'm mainly curious as to what kind of force could have vibrated the plains in a way that caused a Chladni earthquake so to speak. It had to have been massive. 

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@Andy92 It occurs to me that 1) the scale of the Stormfather would match the force at the end of your post (might seem redundant, but I think worth emphasizing) and 2) his emergence coming from the death of a Shard might be cause for the massive disturbance, as opposed to if it was less traumatic - such as the Nightwatcher 

Edited by Steelheart
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1 minute ago, Steelheart said:

How do you know he's been Bonded before?

There are only three Bondsmith spren. 

Quote

Ghodicu

The pocket companion states that there are three spren that can bond a person to make them into a bondsmith, the Stormfather being one of them. As far as I recall the books implied that the number was low, and implied heavily that it was around that number in an epigraph, but didn't actually have a straight confirmation. So, should I take that as canon?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you can take that as canon. They came to me for that information.

yahasgaruna

Sweet. I guess it hasn't been canonized which three spren these are? I seem to recall that the prevailing theory on 17th Shard was that Nightwatcher was one of them, and the third was that weird spren with too many faces that Axies the Collector looked at in the tWoK interlude.

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. :)

According to the in world book, Words of Radiance, there have been three simultaneous Bondsmiths before. 

Three Spren. Three members. It's happened before. 

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5 hours ago, Steelheart said:

How do you know he's been Bonded before?

@Calderis made already a good point but also Pattern lists the Stormfather as a survivor of the Recreance. If he was never bonded he would not be a Survivor or anything.

There is also the Listener's attitude, he (as Rider of the Storm) is one of the Spren who betrayed them giving his Surges to the Humans

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I suppose a major question which it seems was glanced over on this thread, is why (If the plains were shattered by a weapon or something, in perfect radial symmetry) was the Oathgate not affected? I mean, why is it the only part that breaks the symmetry? If it is just a building composed of rock and other such material, even if the building itself used magic to withstand the shattering, should not the ground underneath have fallen away regardless?

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If I remember correctly, Renarin explains this in book. (I am at work and do not have on hand for a quote) He explains it using a plate as a metaphor. If you etch a circle into a plate and then break the plate, you will likely get a circle among the broken pieces. The breaks would follow the path of least resistance and break around the already weakened part with the circle.

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13 hours ago, john203 said:

So since the oathgates teleport the plateau they are on, could they create microscopic chasms in perfect circles around them like an apple corer?

They don't teleportnthe the plateau. The circular plateau is the Oathgate. 

They are a large round platform, and the room in the middle is just the activation device. 

Edited by Calderis
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4 hours ago, Calderis said:

They don't teleportnthe plateau. The circular plateau is the Oathgate. 

They are a large round platform, and the room in the middle is just the activation device. 

So, with that, are the two plateaus traded? Or just anything on top? Also, what happens if you are half on, half off. Do you get spliced?

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3 hours ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said:

So, with that, are the two plateaus traded? Or just anything on top? Also, what happens if you are half on, half off. Do you get spliced?

I suppose the platforms could be, but I highly doubt it. I think their a device that just sends what is on them. 

As to the splicing, I think it's similar to Cadmium and Bendalloy. Either you're in, or you not. No mess. 

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