Toaster Retribution Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Thoughts: *Stormfathers dream-invasion felt a little random, and an easy fix for Dalinars problems. I would have liked to see him having to unite through war. *King T and Amaram are incredibly interesting, and I loved their conversations with Dalinar. Wonder if Dalinar will admit to himself that he has been like them, and that they do have a point? *Oathbringer. Wonder who gets to wield it. The only fighting men we know of in house Sadeas are Amaram and Mraize, and Mraize is just pretending. Still, he seems to be a guard close to Ialai, so what if he got Oathbringer? It would be a twist for certain. The Amaram dual-wielding would be cool too. *Shallan gathering the Unmade Extermination Squad was cool. It also turned out that Barry the Evil Spren was Re-Shepir, the Midnight Mother. Brandon never ceases to amaze me. *The battle was cool, although I hope that the other Unmade are tougher than Re-Shepir. One Radiant was enough to make her retreat, and the Extermination Squad suffered no casualties. Although that was probably because Shallan was very fit to fight her. *The tree-lady on the mural is Cultivation. We also got our third Fool. Only seven to go... *Shallan and Renarin also asked a good question: why can´t Dalinar sense the wrongness? And also, why can Mraize? Do the Ghostbloods have a Radiant beside Shallan? Looking forward to our last three chapters! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, Stark said: True. But it this unmade came into being when Shallash broke, and we don't know if she broke first, or ninth, and we don't know which desolation Dalinar witnessed with the midnight essence, and we don't know if it was an actual memory, or another pre-rendered cinematic from Honor... There is enough uncertainty to be potentially valid. I think we have a WOB saying that there were nine desolations, including Aharetiem. Midnight essence was 8th epoch, so eighth desolation. I'm curious why everybody automatically thinks midnight essence came from the midnight mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, dantlee said: You said "one for each herald that broke under torture." Before the start of every new desolation, all ten heralds broke. Including Taln. So no, according to your stated theory, there would be 10 unmade Do you have a WOB that states that all 10 Heralds needed to break? I'm pretty sure it was only one, each time. If all 10 needed to break, then Taln would have broken nine times before he was the only one left. Nine times before he was the only one tortured, the only one focused on. There is no way he would last another 4500 years, longer than any other interval between Desolations, if he had already broken nine time. That makes no sense. I don't think it is confirmed that a different herald had to break every single time, but that makes far more sense than all ten needing to break every time... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 The UnMade are chunks of Odium's power that were broken off in past Desolations and have gained a measure of consciousness over time. He's the broken one. That's the nature of Honor's plan and the Oathpact, slowly dispersing Odium's power over time. I think each time humanity "wins" a desolation, Odium takes another wound and another UnMade appears. The Unmade are very dangerous, but much less focused in their evil and planning than if Odium directly held their power. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantlee Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Steeldancer said: Um... no. They didn't all break. It was when the first one broke, or perhaps when a new one broke. So each desolation got worse with a new Unmade I think we all need to chill on the authoritative "this is what definitely causes a desolation" statements when all we have is a vague nod of approval from Brandon that amounts to a RAFO. Quote INTERVIEW: Mar 8th, 2014 WOR-University Bookstore (Paraphrased) AHOYMATEY Is a Desolation caused when a Herald breaks under torture? BRANDON SANDERSON This person is asking the right kinds of questions. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17th Splinter Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 The Brandon Avalanche for part one has begun 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrophobe Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Steeldancer said: Um... no. They didn't all break. It was when the first one broke, or perhaps when a new one broke. So each desolation got worse with a new Unmade This is a pretty awesome theory. So each new desolation had a new Unmade, and there will only ever be 10 desolations to decide things. Or maybe 10 before the Oathpact ends. Which means that we need a new Unmade since Taln broke. What if the Everstorm is the new Unmade? We know some of them are more forces, not thinking... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Stark said: Do you have a WOB that states that all 10 Heralds needed to break? I'm pretty sure it was only one, each time. If all 10 needed to break, then Taln would have broken nine times before he was the only one left. Nine times before he was the only one tortured, the only one focused on. There is no way he would last another 4500 years, longer than any other interval between Desolations, if he had already broken nine time. That makes no sense. I don't think it is confirmed that a different herald had to break every single time, but that makes far more sense than all ten needing to break every time... Could be that Odium just picks one and concentrate on him/her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necessary Eagle Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, dantlee said: He said "one for each herald that broke under torture." Before the start of every new desolation, all ten heralds broke. Including Taln. So no, according to his stated theory, there would be 10 unmade. I think the Desolation starts when one of the Heralds breaks, not all of them. So I suppose it's possible that it was a different Herald each time. edit: wow, I got ninja'd hard. Edited October 31, 2017 by Necessary Eagle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaconis Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) I think Shallan found the Tower’s furnace. Or, maybe that’s just one of its functions. Now all that duct work has a purpose, and everyone won’t be so storming cold. Edited October 31, 2017 by Jaconis 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari-no-sugata Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Based on Dalinar's visions, the Unmade existed well before the last Desolation. It would be interesting to know if they came before the first Radiants (or rather, spren-based Surgebinders since they weren't known as Radiants at first). I wouldn't necessarily assume that there is one Unmade per original Radiant spren. There might not be a direct correlation. I can certainly imagine scenarios where Odium saw what the "Radiantspren" were up to and created his own analogue to try to corrupt the Radiants, but it could also be unrelated and that the example here is a rare case of an overlap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted October 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 I just came up with the idea that a new Herald broke each time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmithki Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, dantlee said: He said "one for each herald that broke under torture." Before the start of every new desolation, all ten heralds broke. Including Taln. So no, according to his stated theory, there would be 10 unmade. Well, if you consider breaking as giving the torturer what they wanted (the heralds to abandon the oathpact) then only nine broke, and that is a very commen usage of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrophobe Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, Steeldancer said: I just came up with the idea that a new Herald broke each time. It fits so well though. Otherwise you could end up with the same Herald breaking every time. Given how tired they all were in the Prelude, I'd think that some of them would give in pretty quickly. I can envision it... "Dammit, Carl! We were only being tortured for five minutes this time! We've had seventeen Desolations in the last two weeks!" 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jaconis said: I think Shallan found the Tower’s furnace. Or, maybe that’s just one of its functions. My first thought was that it was Re-Shephir's prison. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, Jaconis said: I think Shallan found the Tower’s furnace. Or, did she just find the Tower's gemheart? And now they need to protect it while it it slumbers so no one steals it? Also, if it is locked in this chamber, with no exterior access. it never gets refueled by a passing Highstorm? So you need a radiant to store light in it to recharge it? What will happen when one of our non-Lift radiants decides to pour stormlight into the big, shiny, gem-encrusted button? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gigalemesh Posted October 31, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 People seem to be using the "fact" that there were 9 desolations pretty freely, as far as I know we have only been told there were less than 99 which includes a pretty large range. Am I missing something? Because otherwise a lot of these theories aren't based on much 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What's a Seawolf? Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said: The UnMade are chunks of Odium's power that were broken off in past Desolations and have gained a measure of consciousness over time. He's the broken one. That's the nature of Honor's plan and the Oathpact, slowly dispersing Odium's power over time. I think each time humanity "wins" a desolation, Odium takes another wound and another UnMade appears. The Unmade are very dangerous, but much less focused in their evil and planning than if Odium directly held their power. Ooooo I like this. Or maybe instead of taking a wound, he purposely leaves a chunk of himself behind? To make his attempt at the next desolation more likely to succeed? I can see it either way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, dendrophobe said: It fits so well though. Otherwise you could end up with the same Herald breaking every time. Given how tired they all were in the Prelude, I'd think that some of them would give in pretty quickly. I can envision it... "Dammit, Carl! We were only being tortured for five minutes this time! We've had seventeen Desolations in the last two weeks!" Exactly this. If all ten had to break each time, than the interval between Desolations would decrease. Once broken, if not given time to unbreak and heal, they remain broken. Which is why, for me, a different Herald breaking each time seems to fit. 7 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said: I think each time humanity "wins" a desolation, Odium takes another wound and another UnMade appears. Add this to it, and it makes a ton of sense to me. And the 'wound' generated unmade complements the broken Herald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Steeldancer said: Whoa that battle was COOL. Ok so she battled the unmade. Does this mean most of the radiants have an analogue to an unmade? Also sort of confirmed that pattern is cousin to creationspren. There's nine unmade, are there not? Analogue is pretty simple - every Order, except for Bondsmiths, has an unmade counterpart. Not for Bondsmiths, because Bondsmiths are not a normal Order, but rather the three leaders of the Knights Radiant (below the Heralds of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyperson Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 I have a theory: Each Unmade corresponds to an order of Radiants. We sort of have confirmation of this, since Re-Shephir is sort of a corrupted Lightweaver-based evil, and has a lot to do with Lightweavers. "But Cam," you say, "there are only nine Unmade." I think Odium's Champion, the being with the nine shadows, could be the corresponding evil to the Bondsmiths. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scriptorian Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Quote A solitary figure hovering above the ground before a large blue disc, arms stretched to the side as if to embrace it. So...anyone else strongly reminded of a suspiciously similar mural in Elantris? I don't have the book on me so I can't quote it... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 I feel like there should be some connection between Desolations, Heralds and Unmade number-wise. Having nine Desolations before this current one would fit pretty good, and I buy that. I also like @Steeldancers idea about a new Herald each time, and thus the tenth Desolation, when the last Herald breaks, being the final one. There is already an in-world term for the Final Desolation after all, so there has to be some kind of end to them. The big question this asks though is wether Taln was the last Herald to break. Lucky for Odium that he was the one to die then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted October 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, Leyrann said: There's nine unmade, are there not? Analogue is pretty simple - every Order, except for Bondsmiths, has an unmade counterpart. Not for Bondsmiths, because Bondsmiths are not a normal Order, but rather the three leaders of the Knights Radiant (below the Heralds of course). We aren't addressing the order. We're addressing the HERALD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, What's a Seawolf? said: Ooooo I like this. Or maybe instead of taking a wound, he purposely leaves a chunk of himself behind? To make his attempt at the next desolation more likely to succeed? I can see it either way. It keeps Odium more and more invested in Roshar, preventing him from leaving, which I believe is Honor's plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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