[OB] Corrupted Radiants and the Secret Lurking in Uritheru's Depths

[Blightsong]

Intro

This theory is very much so a part 2 to my The Greater Power of the Knights Radiant, so check that out if you already haven't. It is kinda necessary to understand this theory

Corrupted Radiants

Something that caught me completely off guard in chapter was when the creature Shallan runs into cast illusions at her. Read the below passage.

Quote

“Pattern,” she shouted, thrusting her right hand forward. Luminescent fog formed there, becoming her Shardblade. Light escaped her lips, transforming her more fully into Radiant. Luminescent wisps trailed behind her, and she felt it chasing her. She charged into a small round chamber and skidded to a stop.

A dozen versions of herself, from drawings she’d done recently, split around her and dashed through the room. Shallan in her dress, Veil in her coat. Shallan as a child, Shallan as a youth. Shallan as a soldier, a happy wife, a mother. Leaner here, plumper there. Scarred. Bright with excitement. Bloodied and in pain. They vanished after passing her, collapsing one after another into Stormlight that curled and twisted about itself before vanishing away.

I know that many people believe this being to be one of the ten deaths, but we havent seen the ten deaths directly use to surges as of yet, and we dont really have any suggestion that they can. I also dont think it is an unamade: as people have pointed out, this seems a tad too week to be one of them. The fact that this being was able to manipulate illumination is very suspicious to me, how ever.

I propose this: that being was a corrupted Lightweaver shade. The copy-cat mechanic is awfully similar to how Shallan has to draw a picture before she can cast an illusion, and this thing was literally described as a Shadow. This being also seemingly interacted with Shallan's notebook as of chapter 27, i know that people believe that she did those drawings but I find it suspicious that they only appeared after she came into contact with this thing. It also fits with why Radiants dying would make the desolations worse, as @Calderis mentioned on the Discord. 

More supporting evidence is the blurb for Oathbringer that is quite old now. Read it below:

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Nestled in the mountains high above the storms, in the tower city of Urithiru, Shallan Davar investigates the wonders of the ancient stronghold of the Knights Radiant and unearths dark secrets lurking in its depths.

I don't see how one of the ten deaths is a "dark secret", if the creature is being talked about here (which i suspect it is, were almost at the end of part one).

Implications

If this creature is a corrupted Lightweaver shade and my Greater Power theory is correct, I suspect that this ability is what the Epigraphs have described, read the below epigraph with this theory in mind:

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"I did not die.

I experienced something worse."

I would say that going to Braize (I suspect the author somehow escapes before being corrupted) would be a pretty bad experience, one that would probably convince others that you are dead and would probably result in things worse than death.

Conclusion

If you guys see any holes in the theory or want to comment, post away! If you read this and you're confused about some of the assumptions I'm making, check out the above theory I linked.

[Calderis]

My main issue is still that I don't think the creature used illumination. 

All of those versions of Shallan were things she drew herself, and she didn't react to them surprised at some outside source of Lightweaving. 

[Blightsong]

7 minutes ago, Calderis said:

My main issue is still that I don't think the creature used illumination. 

All of those versions of Shallan were things she drew herself, and she didn't react to them surprised at some outside source of Lightweaving. 

She doesn't reclaim the Light as she did with her illusions earlier in the scene and she stops chasing the creature for a second. I've seen a theory that the pictures in her notebook used to be the pictures of the ones that were cast. If youre right that she casted them then that scene could have been written a lot less confusingly while still implying that she did it to stop her self for some reason. Why would that even be, though. I dont really see a very good reason for her having cast those, even taking her mental illness into account.

edit: Also, her going into a battle stance seems like an action of surprise to me

Quote

Radiant raised her Shardblade in the stance Adolin had been teaching her, sweat dripping down the sides of her face. The room would have been dark but for the Light curling off her skin and passing through her clothing to rise around her.

It also seems suspicious to me that Pattern told her that he didn't see it, even though it seemed to be present for awhile and she chased it for a sec. Feels to me like hes avoiding he issue.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Blightsong

[Calderis]

Maybe... I just would have thought there'd be some reaction spoken in the narrative, or to pattern about how the monster she's chasing (or person at that point) used Lightweaving. 

[Andy92]

I like your earlier theory of the secret that broke the KR. The idea that they go to Braize after death like the Heralds is an idea I've had for a while, just never did put all the book quotes together for it. 

Now with this theory, assuming the spren mimicked the Oathpact with the Nahel bond to the point that it causes a KR to go to Braize after death, why wouldn't the KR return to Roshar with a physical body? That's what the Heralds do. 

[Erunion]

The earlier theory about radiants becoming CS’s is good. This, however, I don’t buy. 

You see, I’m 95% certain that Shallan lightwove all of those - as distractions. It’s a classic illusionist combat move: send a dozen fakes into a room to draw fire. 

Zero in Borderlands 2 is a great example of this tactic as well - and I’ve used it in Halo with great effect. So when I read that I was like ‘oh cool! Shallan is learning to use combat illusions!’

[Yata]

@Blightsong I think your theory is really cool but I don't see it as likely

First of all, if the Radiant-Shadows are bound to Braize, I see no easy way for them to arrive on Roshar. If they are not bound to Braize we will have a bunch or Radiant-Shadow in the Roshar's Shadesmar and Radiant Spren would know this.

Secondly the Murders (and therefore this creature's work) started before the return of the Stormlight. This mean this creature did what she did without have a decent source of Investiture. I see hard for a cognitive shadow (but also for a Spren) to interact to that degree without be extremely Invested.

Third, I can't see as plausible for a Radiant-Shadow to keep the use of Surges after his bond is released.

For now, I am really doubtful about the copy-cat murder's identity. I see a strong connection with the Midnight Essences but it seems still different from them

[Fifth of Daybreak]

I have to agree that it seems unlikely that the surgebinding is coming from anyone other than Shallan. There's a lot of great back and forth about my theory on why it happened that way in that scene in my thread "Stones, Stone Shamanism, and Death Rites" but basically I think that by trying to change herself fully into Radiant, Shallan is breaking her mind somehow and causing problems with her Lightweaving.

 

Quote

“Shallan,” Pattern said, sounding concerned. “No. They live. Your brothers live. Mraize said he rescued them. They are on their way here. This isn’t the lie.” His voice grew smaller. “Can’t you tell?”

She adopted Veil again, her pain fading. “Yes. Of course I can tell.” She started forward again.

“Shallan,” Pattern said. “This is… mmm… there is something wrong with these lies you place upon yourself. I don’t understand it.”

“I just need to go deeper,” she whispered. “I can’t be Veil only on the surface.”

Oathbringer Chapter 18 Double Vision

@Erunion If she used those illusions tactically it was a poor use of tactics. None of them looked like her, only the soldier was armed and would be a credible threat, and Radiant was the only one with a shardblade so still would be the largest threat and would draw the most fire. Beyond that, the illusions vanish before she even readies her sword, let alone realizes the room is empty.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Fifth of Daybreak

[Blightsong]

2 hours ago, Yata said:

@Blightsong I think your theory is really cool but I don't see it as likely

First of all, if the Radiant-Shadows are bound to Braize, I see no easy way for them to arrive on Roshar. If they are not bound to Braize we will have a bunch or Radiant-Shadow in the Roshar's Shadesmar and Radiant Spren would know this.

Secondly the Murders (and therefore this creature's work) started before the return of the Stormlight. This mean this creature did what she did without have a decent source of Investiture. I see hard for a cognitive shadow (but also for a Spren) to interact to that degree without be extremely Invested.

Third, I can't see as plausible for a Radiant-Shadow to keep the use of Surges after his bond is released.

For now, I am really doubtful about the copy-cat murder's identity. I see a strong connection with the Midnight Essences but it seems still different from them

They are bound to Braize just like the Heralds/Voidbringers are. They can come to Roshar during a desolation. The murders started right after the Everstorm first hit, and if this thing seems to have been corrupted by Odium. I believe that it is using his investiture.

Edit: We have also know that some Cognitive Entities are able to use powers without Investiture.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Blightsong

[Tarion]

7 hours ago, Erunion said:

The earlier theory about radiants becoming CS’s is good. This, however, I don’t buy. 

You see, I’m 95% certain that Shallan lightwove all of those - as distractions. It’s a classic illusionist combat move: send a dozen fakes into a room to draw fire. 

Zero in Borderlands 2 is a great example of this tactic as well - and I’ve used it in Halo with great effect. So when I read that I was like ‘oh cool! Shallan is learning to use combat illusions!’

Another close parallel in other settings might be Jim Butcher's Ghost Story, where an illusionist does exactly that when ambushed - a half dozen copies of herself dash in different directions. It's the sensible reaction to being surprised if you've got those powers.

[Blightsong]

4 minutes ago, Tarion said:

Another close parallel in other settings might be Jim Butcher's Ghost Story, where an illusionist does exactly that when ambushed - a half dozen copies of herself dash in different directions. It's the sensible reaction to being surprised if you've got those powers.

She wasn't surprised, she was on the chase. If what you guys think happened was what Brandon was trying to convey, then she saw the thing, chased it into a room (which she found empty) and decided to stop, cast a bunch of illusions, go into a battle stance, then not take back in her Stormlight like she had been doing despite the prescence of a threat. That just doesn't make much sense to me. 

[Erunion]

22 minutes ago, Blightsong said:

She wasn't surprised, she was on the chase. If what you guys think happened was what Brandon was trying to convey, then she saw the thing, chased it into a room (which she found empty) and decided to stop, cast a bunch of illusions, go into a battle stance, then not take back in her Stormlight like she had been doing despite the prescence of a threat. That just doesn't make much sense to me. 

Think ‘rush into an unknown room, illusion swarm while she checks the surroundings and ready herself - notice it’s empty and relax the illusions’. 

The lack of Stormlight recovery is probably because they were intentionally short illusions; just for a second or two while she got her bearings. 

[Fifth of Daybreak]

6 hours ago, Erunion said:

Think ‘rush into an unknown room, illusion swarm while she checks the surroundings and ready herself - notice it’s empty and relax the illusions’. 

The lack of Stormlight recovery is probably because they were intentionally short illusions; just for a second or two while she got her bearings. 

This isn't the order. It's give chase, adopt Radiant, feel stormlight chasing her, she charges into the room and stops, the illusions split off, illusions which are not copies of herself dissipate as they pass her, she readies her sword, she notices the room is empty. 

Quote

Light escaped her lips, transforming her more fully into Radiant. Luminescent wisps trailed behind her, and she felt it chasing her. She charged into a small round chamber and skidded to a stop.

A dozen versions of herself, from drawings she’d done recently, split around her and dashed through the room. Shallan in her dress, Veil in her coat. Shallan as a child, Shallan as a youth. Shallan as a soldier, a happy wife, a mother. Leaner here, plumper there. Scarred. Bright with excitement. Bloodied and in pain. They vanished after passing her, collapsing one after another into Stormlight that curled and twisted about itself before vanishing away.

Radiant raised her Shardblade in the stance Adolin had been teaching her, sweat dripping down the sides of her face. The room would have been dark but for the Light curling off her skin and passing through her clothing to rise around her.

Empty. She’d either lost her quarry in the corridors, or it had been a spren and not a person at all.

2

 

[Erunion]

@Fifth of Daybreak - the strongest support for ‘intentional tactic’ is how completely unconcerned she seems about all these weird images. She mentions losing her quarry, not all the crazy illusions. 

The wording is strange though, and could indicate something else. 

[Fifth of Daybreak]

8 minutes ago, Erunion said:

@Fifth of Daybreak - the strongest support for ‘intentional tactic’ is how completely unconcerned she seems about all these weird images. 

In the context of "I can't tell what's reality and what isn't" I strongly disagree.

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“I talked to Balat over spanreed,” Shallan said, hand to her forehead. “But… I had Lightweaving then… even if I didn’t fully know it. I could have fabricated that. Every message from him. My own memories…”