[OB] Dalinar is going to forget Navani

[TheLaw]

This is less of a theory and more of a looming concern in my mind: what if Dalinar is starting to remember Evi because his curse/boon was specifically worded in relation to his WIFE and he has a new wife now?

As memories of Evi start to appear, will memories of Navani start to fade? Was this how it was when he forgot Evi as well? Color slowly bleeding out of a picture until it became gray then fuzzy then black? We now are pretty sure it's not the bond with the Stormfather causing the memories to return and I read an interesting theory on here about the watch fabrial which could still be valid but the following passage has me worried:

Navani, he thought. On my arm. It still gave him a heady, surreal feeling. Dreamlike, as if this were one of his visions. He could vividly remember desiring her. Thinking about her, captivated by the way she talked, the things she knew, the look of her hands as she sketched—or, storms, as she did something as simple as raising a spoon to her lips. He remembered staring at her.

He remembered a specific day on a battlefield, when he had almost let his jealousy of his brother lead him too far—and was surprised to feel Evi slipping into that memory. Her presence colored the old, crusty memory of those war days with his brother.

 

I have no evidence but the passage puts memories of the two women right next to each other in a way that seems foreboding. The juxtaposition of vivid, fond memories of Navani and re-emerging memories of Evi feels like a literary tool to set us up for something. He also gives a fixed point by which the reader will be able to judge the deterioration of Dalinar's memory: a "specific day" on the battlefield when his jealousy nearly got the better of him; a day sure to be the subject of a soon-to-come flashback.

Also, it feels like it would be just about appropriately soul crushing for us to see Dalinar get what he always wanted only to have it slowly drip away until he can eventually only hear Shshsh when someone says Navani's name.

Anyways, just saying it smells like a Sanderson set-up. I'd love to get all your thoughts.

 

[Morsk]

I would not want to be the Nightwatcher, if this happens. Navani will track her down, and turn her into a fabrial.

[Leyrann]

That... is actually a very troubling idea.

I doubt that it will happen, however, even if only for the very simple fact that Navani is still alive. There's no way that Dalinar isn't going to realize it if she were to slap him in the face, for example.

[What's a Seawolf?]

2 hours ago, Morsk said:

I would not want to be the Nightwatcher, if this happens. Navani will track her down, and turn her into a fabrial.

This is now up there with my 'Lift-Zahel-Cupcake' scenario (details left out for spoilers) that I most want to see in Stormlight.

[Knabepicer]

I'm iffy on this theory because it relies on specific wording in a boon/bane when that seems to contradict how the Nightwatcher was told to work in WoK: that it wasn't a matter of wording your request correctly, but she just gives you what she thinks you deserve.

[StormingTexan]

13 minutes ago, Knabepicer said:

I'm iffy on this theory because it relies on specific wording in a boon/bane when that seems to contradict how the Nightwatcher was told to work in WoK: that it wasn't a matter of wording your request correctly, but she just gives you what she thinks you deserve.

 

He says

Quote

I remember… I asked to have my pain taken away, and she took memories too.

If he is recalling this correctly he didn't specifically ask to take away the pain of loosing his wife but that was what the Nightwatcher gave him. Dalinar is assuming this was his curse but very well could be his boon. If her boon was ambiguous as erasing the memories of Dalinar's wife then this could be the reason after marrying Navani he can remeber Evi. 

I am not completely sold on this theory but it has some merits. Of course with Navani being alive and around Dalinar he shouldn't be able to forget her completely. It would be odd and tragic though. It is a perfect excuse though when he forgets to buy her something for their anniversary. 

[Rasha]

I started a thread last week with this theory, you will find it here :

You will find very strong and swaying arguments and counter arguments in the thread. Even if it is a tragic theory, I am glad I am not alone in thinking it could become true.

 

Edit: You also have an alternative theory, stating that Dalinar was healed by his painrial:

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Rasha

[IllNsickly]

After the conversation with Navani where he says he thinks he asked the Nightwatcher to take away the PAIN, that is what She did. I think Navani's Painrial is the key.

 

It is too coincidental.

 

[Wreith]

Need to at least read the other two threads provided. 

This conversation should probably be moved to one of them.

 

10 minutes ago, IllNsickly said:

After the conversation with Navani where he says he thinks he asked the Nightwatcher to take away the PAIN, that is what She did. I think Navani's Painrial is the key.

 

It is too coincidental.

 

I would ascribe to this theory more if he had used the thing at any time or was even wearing it at the time his memories recover...

[Bernem]

It doesn't seem like Evi qualifies as "his wife" less now than she did before he married Navani. When he went to the Nightwatcher, he wasn't actively married to Evi because she was deceased. The way I see it, either she stopped being "his wife" the moment she died, or she always counts as his wife.

But either way, the Nightwatcher doesn't give exactly what people ask for, so I don't think the phrasing is that important.

My money is on the forgetfulness being conditional on something that has now changed.

[king of nowhere]

17 hours ago, Wreith said:

 

I would ascribe to this theory more if he had used the thing at any time or was even wearing it at the time his memories recover...

on the other hand, dalinar wasn't trying to think about Evi at the time. Memories don't come up until you dredge them generally, and so this may well be the first time someone mentioned his wife after he got healed by the painrial.

another ooption is stormlight healing. the chapter was oddly phrased in a way that would left it ambiguous: the stomrfather said that it was not something caused by the bond, but he never mentioned stormlight or healing, just the bond. And we have precedents of the nightwatcher causing people to have numb hands, like they were blade-severed, which we know stormlight can heal.

Anyway, seeing navani put the nightwatcher into a fabrial would be a really great scene.

[Wreith]

13 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

on the other hand, dalinar wasn't trying to think about Evi at the time. Memories don't come up until you dredge them generally, and so this may well be the first time someone mentioned his wife after he got healed by the painrial.

another ooption is stormlight healing. the chapter was oddly phrased in a way that would left it ambiguous: the stomrfather said that it was not something caused by the bond, but he never mentioned stormlight or healing, just the bond. And we have precedents of the nightwatcher causing people to have numb hands, like they were blade-severed, which we know stormlight can heal.

Anyway, seeing navani put the nightwatcher into a fabrial would be a really great scene.

I find it extremely unlikely that the fabrial did anything between him putting it on and then taking it off after a walk to the training room and a short conversation. Particularly, again, without ever having been activated.

I'm more in favor of stormlight healing. Yes, he's held stormlight frequently, but he's always had physical wounds at the time. There's still explaining to do for this solution.

Not sure how the numb hands are relevant, but they're not like a shardblade. shard-severed limbs can't be felt at all. Reference the first fight with Szeth and its aftermath. And Dalinar's injury isn't necessarily Spiritual in nature. Per other Nightwatcher curses, it should be Cognitive.

 

I think there's something else going on. I don't at present find either of these theories terribly convincing.

[Malim]

35 minutes ago, Wreith said:

I think there's something else going on. I don't at present find either of these theories terribly convincing

This.  I think there is something big that we have been missing.  Take the following theory as mainly speculation fueled by too much coffee, but here goes:

Dalinar remembering Evi has nothing to do with Stormlight healing or a change in the specifics of what he asked for, it is a direct result of something Odium is doing.

First, the point about Stormlight healing being the cause:

From Oathbringer Chapter 24:

Quote

Could you at least confirm with the Stormfather again that his bond with you is absolutely, for sure not what’s causing the memories to come back?”

“I’ll see.”

The Stormfather rumbled. Why would she want me to say more? I have spoken, and spren do not change like men. This is not my doing. It is not the bond.

This to me rules out Stormlight healing.  That is an aspect of the bond that Dalinar has with the Stormfather.  Now it is possible that the Stormfather has it wrong, but in the lack of anything else, I'm willing to take his word for it that the bond is not causing Dalinar's memories to return, at least until we know more. 

As to the Nightwatcher suddenly changing the Boon/Curse, or the specifics of what Dalinar asked for changing, as Navani points out this has never happened before:

Oathbringer Chapter 24:

Quote

“No,” Navani said, folding her arms, getting a stern expression on her face—as if angry with a stubborn child. “In each case I’ve looked into, the boon and curse both lasted until death.”... “In any case, Dalinar, the research is definitive. We haven’t been able to find a single case where the effects of the Old Magic wore off—and it’s not like people haven’t tried over the centuries. Lore about people dealing with their curses, and seeking any cure for them, is practically its own genre. As my researcher said, ‘Old Magic curses aren’t like a hangover, Brightness.’ ”

Once again, to say something has never happened is not to say it never will, but in the lack of any other evidence, this is at least predictive.

Lastly, there is this:

Oathbringer Back cover:

Quote

And finally The King, broken by war, he seeks the past. That which was abandoned. That which he must not learn.
   For those secrets will crush him as they did the Knights who came before.

Many have speculated that the King is Dalinar.  Putting this together, I would argue that his memories of Evi are something that is better left forgotten.  Indeed, they might contain the catalyst for breaking the Radiants again.  Now who would want this?  Odium, and he knows about Dalinar.  What is more, he is a Shard.  He probably has the power to undo what the Nightwatcher did.

From Oathbringer Chapter 4:

Quote

Yes, the Stormfather said. The enemy rides this storm. He’s aware of you, Dalinar.

What is more, there seems to be something wrong in Urithiru right now... Unmade, or Odium?  In either case, there seems to be some power that is actively trying to derail the city.  Bringing back Dalinar's memories and using them to break him would do a lot for that.

 

TL;DR:  Dalinar's memories returning are a result of Odium's influence.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Malim
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