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Crazy Hoid=Adonalsium Theory


GeneralHZRD

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Hi, i'm new here but I have a crazy theory so I made an account so that I could share it.

I have talked over this theory with some friends that are big fans of The Cosmere and we believe that it is possible. I have seen the theory that Hoid will become the new Adonalsium a couple times, but I believe that he already is/was. The theory in its simplest form is that Hoid is/was Adonalsium.

First off, we know that Hoid was present at the shattering of Adonalsium, but nothing I have seen states in what form or fashion. We also know that all the shards have vessels, those that hold them. It stands to reason that Adonalsium also had a vessel that held all his power. It would also explain why Hoid is world-hopping around collecting magic systems, he's trying to put himself back together. I know that supposedly Adonalsium was killed when he shattered, but what if Adonalsium is the name of the power and not the name of the vessel. The death of Adonalsium could be referring to the death of the power when it shattered, but not the death of the vessel that held it. In conclusion, Hoid is what was leftover at the shattering of Adonalsium; he is now searching out the shards and learning all he can about them in the hopes of stitching himself back together.

What do you think of my theory? I don't know the most about The Cosmere so there could be things that i'm not aware of that disprove my theory. If any of you have any evidence for or against this i would love to see it.

 

Thanks for reading my theory, ~TheVillageIdiot

 

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Welcome to the shard. While the theory is a interesting one there are several WoB's which make that problematic for me: 

THE ONLY JOE

Was Hoid offered one of the Shards we know about.

BRANDON SANDERSON

You know, I can't remember which Shard I've shown you, Wait, no I haven't shown you that one.

QUESTION

Is Hoid any of the Shards of Adonalsium?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Good question. He does not hold a Shard.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These lead me to the conclusion that while Hoid was there he is not nor has he ever been a holder of a significant version of Adonalsium's power.
@Roadwalker and @TheVillageIdiot  you are both correct that the present tense on the second WoB disproves his present holding of the power.The first addresses the fact that he was offered a shard if he had in fact been Adonalsium itself then does it make sense that an offer would have been made to restore part of its power? This leads me to believe that at no point in the past did he ever hold some or all of Adolnasium's power.
Edited by Nathrangking
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Adonalsium died. I do indeed think that he did, and isn't Hoid. Also, Investiture becomes sentient over time by itself (the more the Investiture, the faster it becomes sentient), and so Adonalsium did not necessarily have a vessel. However, it has been discussed elsewhere that it is unlikely that Adonalsium did not have a vessel. But we can't completely rule out that idea. Knowing Hoid, though...

Also, on the idea that Adonalsium was the name of the power, all of the Shard's powers have meanings. They are all aspects of Adonalsium, and so you'd think that the word for the power of Adonalsium would have some meaning, possibly related to creation or omnipotence. But "Adonalsium" doesn't mean anything. Then again, who would name their kid Adonalsium? (Well, Sanderson does have a habit of making interesting names)

I still think that while it might be possible for Hoid to be or have been Adonalsium, it is extremely unlikely and I seriously doubt it. Interesting idea though... Hoid certainly does have some major role that was played and is still yet to be played...

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Spoilers from the sample release chapters (link will download a Microsoft Word file) of the Liar of Partinel (an unpublished novel by Brandon).

 

The chapters show Hoid's origin story (Hoid is here as Midius - they took their name from their former teacher at some point. The very fact that Hoid has an origin story that this shows a tiny part of kind of disproves this theory. Sorry. While this is non-canon, it shows Hoid in a very different way to how you imagine.

Edited by The Young Bard
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Sorry to be this blunt but this theory has come up 4 different times in the last month and it is starting to annoy me. There are literally 2/3 theories like this on the first page. Before you post you something about a new theory, please go check if it already exists. 

 

Edit: I feel like owe an apology. I overstepped my bounds and I am sorry I did. 

Edited by blueshard
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7 hours ago, blueshard said:

Sorry to be this blunt but this theory has come up 4 different times in the last month and it is starting to annoy me. There are literally 2/3 theories like this on the first page. Before you post you something about a new theory, please go check if it already exists. 

Please be kind to new members who might not know the ins/outs of the forums. It is very easy to skip a thread you do not enjoy without being "blunt". This PSA is brought to you by me.

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On 10/17/2017 at 10:06 PM, Krypton Savant said:

Also, on the idea that Adonalsium was the name of the power, all of the Shard's powers have meanings. They are all aspects of Adonalsium, and so you'd think that the word for the power of Adonalsium would have some meaning, possibly related to creation or omnipotence. But "Adonalsium" doesn't mean anything. Then again, who would name their kid Adonalsium? (Well, Sanderson does have a habit of making interesting names)

I hadn't thought of that before. You are right though, Adonalsium doesn't mean anything so it would be odd for it to be the name of the power.

 

On 10/17/2017 at 8:02 PM, Nathrangking said:

QUESTION

Is Hoid any of the Shards of Adonalsium?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Good question. He does not hold a Shard.
 

Like Roadwalker pointed out, BS's answer is in the present tense. Hoid does not currently hold a shard, but that does not disprove that he might have in the past.

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8 hours ago, TheVillageIdiot said:

I hadn't thought of that before. You are right though, Adonalsium doesn't mean anything so it would be odd for it to be the name of the power.

Adonalsium is an anagram of "A Soul a Mind".

Anyway the Hoid is/was Adonalsium is (like other said) an already very discussed topic.

If Hoid was the old Vessel of Adonalsium's power...He have to be dead, much more Hoid had a complex relationship with the Vessels, he know them personally (for example He was a great friend with Rayse) something I really doubt was in the Adonalsium's possibility.

Lastly as was already told, Hoid has a backstory and at least a novel as main charater on Yolen. Hoid used to be a Yolish standard guy.

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I originally really liked this theory, but after doing some research (I figured the best place would be the letters from Hoid to Frost and from Frost to Hoid through the chapter headings of Stormlight books) I think I've found some evidence that severely discredits this theory.

This evidence comes from the chapter heading of chapter 66 of WoR, "Stormblessings". This continues Frost's letter back to Hoid, here's the quote:

"Is not the destruction we have wrought enough? The worlds you now tread bear the touch and design of Adonalsium. Our interference so far has brought nothing but pain."

Summary: Although this could also be referring to Adonalsium merely as a power, I see it as being a separate thing, and the wording leads me to believe that Hoid (nor Frost) is nor was, Adonalsium.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/17/2017 at 11:06 PM, Krypton Savant said:

However, it has been discussed elsewhere that it is unlikely that Adonalsium did not have a vessel.

Could you provide a link to that discussion? I'd love to hear compelling arguments, especially since I'm in the Sentient Investiture Camp.


On 10/17/2017 at 8:36 PM, TheVillageIdiot said:

The theory in its simplest form is that Hoid is/was Adonalsium.

Have two WoBs.

Quote
Interview: Dec 6th, 2012
West Jordan Signing Report - Josh & Mi'ch (Verbatim)

Brandon Sanderson

Adonalsium is not Shattered in Dragonsteel.

Quote

Question

When will we see a Hoid book?

Brandon Sanderson

It’ll be a little while. He’s playing around with things in the Stormlight Archive if you couldn’t tell, he’s decided to—Hoid is fiddling with things, more than he usually does. But Hoid as a major part of things doesn’t really show up till the third Mistborn trilogy, which is the outer space Mistborn, the sci-fi Mistborn.

So Hoid is also very involved in Dragonsteel, which is actually the first book in the sequence, long before Elantris happened. So eventually I will tell that story. You can read a draft of it at the BYU library. It’s the only copy that I know of in existence. It’s almost always checked out. It’s my Honors thesis, and it’s not very good. It really is not very good, but basically it’s involving the ideas that eventually will become Dragonsteel once I write it again. But I stole the Shattered Plains and put them in Roshar instead because the fit better there.

Taken together, I think the two highlighted portions make my case for me.

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I believe this is where it was mentioned. You posted some comments there. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/61313-what-was-adonalsium/

On 10/4/2017 at 8:23 PM, Fakeout said:
On 9/30/2017 at 5:07 AM, Ciridae said:

I guess it boils down to whether or not Adonalsium had a vessel, but I honestly doubt it. Brandon has said that a theme of the cosmere is what happens to mortals who have been given the power of gods, how that power influences them and how they chose to wield it. Adonalsium was that power, the story is about how it came to be in the hands of mortals. The shift in power should be from god to mortal, not from mortal to mortal. 

This is just personal preference, but I think the story of sentient investiture is more interesting. A mortal who gets all that power is going to be colored by their own history, their own perception, their own aspirations, their own set of morals. We see how this plays out in 16 different ways already. Adonalsium should be something more than just a bigger shard with balanced intents.

Brandon does like doing the unexpected, and having Adonalsium just be a "bigger shard with balanced intents" seems too much like the simple answer that I'm sure Brandon has some kind of unique twist on it.

 

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On 10/19/2017 at 1:13 PM, TheVillageIdiot said:

I hadn't thought of that before. You are right though, Adonalsium doesn't mean anything so it would be odd for it to be the name of the power.

The name Adonalsium is based on the Hebrew name of God, Adonai. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/5p4ydj/oathbringer_spoilers_stormlight_three_update_6/de70xp2/

Quote

grampipon

Is Adonalsium taken from the Hebrew words for God, Adonai?

Brandon Sanderson

It is.

My personal theory is that Adonalsium had no Vessel, and developed a sapient mind of its own.

Normally, when a Shard is splintered, the Vessel descends and the power is split apart. I think that in the case of Adonalsium, as there was no Vessel, the personality was  ripped apart with the power itself, as it was literally a part of it. The intents are portions of the personality of that power itself, ripped away from the sapience they had as a whole entity. 

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New to the site and I'm living this theory. Here's two thoughts 1 Hoid could certainly have been the vessel but what if adonalsium became sentient due to the amount of investiture and did away with him because he was human and it thought it knew better. Hoid in his rage then attempted to kill adonalsium but failed( I read somewhere that there was a failed attempt before the shattering) and survived. He learned his lesson and decided to shatter the power instead of kill it. Having once held the power he was able to help 16 others shatter it but refused to take a shard cause he knew what it would do to him. Frost mentioning in that letter about the destruction he's brought is because he wants to see everything adonalsium worked for destroyed. This would also explain why he isn't frightened by Jasnah kholins shardblade at the end of WoR and even tells her he'll watch the world burn if he has to. Hoid goes around constantly stirring up trouble and pitting Shards against Shards. 2 now my second thought is one I haven't seen mentioned yet and actually goes directly against this theory. What if Hoid is the opposing force to adonalsiumm. He poses and a young man on yolen and attempts to kill his rival. He fails. He finds 16 powerful figures and helps them to shatter adonalsium's power. His rival is defeated. He allows the 16 to take up Shards because he knows they can't beat him anymore. This would also explain why he didn't take a shard by was present for the shattering. 

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On 11/5/2017 at 0:52 AM, Shoffart said:

What if Hoid is the opposing force to Adonalsium

Brandon counts groups of people as a force. :) (The force opposing Adonalsium has pretty much been implied to be the Vessels and any compatriots they had with them, which could count Hoid)

On 11/5/2017 at 0:52 AM, Shoffart said:

Hoid could certainly have been the vessel but what if Adonalsium became sentient due to the amount of investiture and did away with him because he was human and it thought it knew better.

I'm not exactly sure if Investiture that's being held can gain sentience, now that I think about it.

Quote

Q: You've said that Investiture tends to develop sapience on its own. Is this a function of the amount of Investiture alone (i.e. any pile of Investiture large enough will develop sapience eventually), or does the process require extra effort (e.g. a Command from an Awakener, an action by a Shard, etc.)?
 
A: Under the right circumstances, a pile of investiture will eventually become self-aware. But there is no specific timing. The more investiture clumped together, the more likely--and the closer to human-level intelligence it is likely to obtain. Of course, if you  leave matter alone long enough  (on a galactic scale) it will eventually end up becoming sapient too. So this isn't that different. (Well, okay, it is.)

His analogy to matter using the phrase "leaving it alone" is what makes me unsure. Otherwise, you've certainly come up with an interpretation I haven't seen before, so you get props for creativity

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  • 2 years later...

Maybe Adonalsioum will turn out to be the book reader. I always think back to the old shoemaker story. One becomes many to experience and understand more. Cosmere is a story being told by tons of POVs, the reader experiences each of these POVs and slowly over time the shards or books (stories) will be combined, or rejoined when the reader has finished the entire collection and has shared all of the experiences. Maybe Sanderson is Hoid himself helping nudge the reader in the right direction along the way. 

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