[OB] Mraize and his Bird

[RShara]

Yep, but how many of those chickens are actually chickens? lol...

Yeah I expect we're likely to see a few more Aviar in the future.

[Mahoka]

It seems most plausible to me that it is the run of the mill aviar that blocks mind sense. Presumably this would keep the local omniscient-ish shards (or spren) wherever he happens to be, from meddling with his affairs. 

Cognitive cloaking device, if you will. 

[taveren]

its not like he has to go make the bird himself he could have just bought it off someone. there was a whole group of people making these special birds just to sell them.

i would bet a fair number of these end up off world.

[aemetha]

3 minutes ago, taveren said:

there was will be a whole group of people making these special birds just to sell them.

Fixed that. Sixth of dusk is set far in the future from the present SA timeline.

[taveren]

1 minute ago, aemetha said:

Fixed that. Sixth of dusk is set far in the future from the present SA timeline.

does it mention anywhere in the book how long they have been around.  you don't know they haven't been doing this for thousands of years . The technology on the planet was around equivalent to 1700-1800's or more. Stormlight is happening around the time that scandrail is in the 1980s. should only take a few hundred years to get to FTL travel for a society that already has magic time bubbles and speed compounding. Doesn't seem far fetched that these groups would already have been making these birds for a long time

[Fifth of Daybreak]

[Hiadin Haloun]

On 10/17/2017 at 9:53 AM, Salkara said:

Taking a kandra's spikes isn't an easy task, Bavadin has made Taldain inaccessible (at least currently), and Yolen? Mraize clearly has skills.

Onto Patji. We've only seen the island from the PoV of Sixth of the Dusk, a man with very primitive technology. Vathi was able to kill a nightmaw with her portable harpoon-cannon, and she didn't seem like she had much in the way of survivalist training. Mraize, on the otherhand, has been pretty clear on his status as a hunter. I would not be surprised to find out he likes going to hunting expeditions to other worlds (cosmere safari, anyone?).

Is it possible that Mraize is from the island himself?  Didnt Sixth say that only hunters could survive Patji?  only hunters could get Aviar?  and Mraize uses hunting an awful lot as a metaphor.  Seems like a native of the Island of Patji would do something like that.  It would definitely support his ability to get Aviar, and probably most of the other things he has collected.  I find it more interesting that Iyatil is considered a Babsk, which is a Thaylen, while she is actually from Scadrial.  The other interesting thing to note with this relationship is that Rysns Babsk takes her to weird places, and collects weird things.  The items he has gathered seem more like Rysns "Stupid grass" then a show of wealth, or a source of accessible power.

[kmosiman]

I thought that Mraize was confirmed to be from Roshar. 

I guess this means that the notes on the First of the Sun are wrong or incomplete. Just because no expedition from Silverlight has returned, evidently doesn't mean that no one has returned. I wonder how extensive the Ghostbloods reach actually is. 

[Fourth Of The Night]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From the Oathbringer Glasgow Signing

Quote

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

Is Mraize's strange chicken Invested? Like the birds of Sixth of the Dusk?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

It is an Aviar.

 

[Toaster Retribution]

@Hiadin Haloun @kmosiman

Mraize is Thaylen. We have Peters word on it. Good thinking though, Hiadin :-)

 

 

[Fifth of Daybreak]

4 minutes ago, Ookla the Toasted said:

@Hiadin Haloun @kmosiman

Mraize is Thaylen. We have Peters word on it. Good thinking though, Hiadin :-)

 

 

The evidence seems kinda shaky. Could this be an instance of "Peter lies?"

[Dryone_2]

On 24.11.2017 at 4:36 AM, Mahoka said:

It seems most plausible to me that it is the run of the mill aviar that blocks mind sense. Presumably this would keep the local omniscient-ish shards (or spren) wherever he happens to be, from meddling with his affairs. 

Cognitive cloaking device, if you will. 

If that is the case, Hoid will steal it. 

[Blazenella]

 

Spoiler

 

Hoidonalsium [PENDING REVIEW]

Is Mraize's strange chicken Invested? Like the birds of Sixth of the Dusk?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

It is an Aviar.

 

This is from a WoB from the Glasgow signing confirming that Mraize's green chicken is in fact an Aviar

[Toaster Retribution]

30 minutes ago, Ookla the Obtuse said:

The evidence seems kinda shaky. Could this be an instance of "Peter lies?"

Dunno. It is taken as a fact enough to be stated on the Coppermind. 

[Fifth of Daybreak]

17 minutes ago, Ookla the Toasted said:

Dunno. It is taken as a fact enough to be stated on the Coppermind. 

Haha...well....

But I looked into the babsk thing a little further, and it does appear to be a strictly Thaylen word. That doesn't rule out magical interpretation of they don't have a word for  'journeyman' as it doesn't appear in any of the books. 

 

Still, after looking into it a little further, I'm more convinced than I was.

[BeskarKomrk]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Obtuse said:

The evidence seems kinda shaky. Could this be an instance of "Peter lies?"

Peter could also be wrong. That could be his interpretation of the text.

[kmosiman]

Quote

#1Oct. 11, 2016 Share

 

 

Botanica

Mraize is said to come from Thaylenah. If it is true, then what about his eyebrows? 'Cause we didn't see any related descriptions from Shallan's PoVs. Did he cut/shave/dye his eyebrows?

Brandon Sanderson

Mraize...well, let's just say that much about him is mysterious. But no, you would not place him as Thaylen by his eyebrows.

Quote

Orem signing 2014 (Dec. 6, 2014)
#8 Share

 

 

Arthur Dent (paraphrased)

Is [Mraize] a worldhopper?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, he's been to a few planets, highly supervised by his babsk.

So I guess from these 2 quotes, Mraize doesn't appear to be Thaylen, but acts like he is.

I don't know much about the eyebrow trait, but there are plenty of people in the world with mixed blood. So I would assume that Mraize is culturally Thaylen, even if he is not 100% racially Thaylen.

[ccstat]

I'm one who didn't believe Mraize's chicken was an aviar until Brandon confirmed it (here and here).

Then we got the stunning confirmation that Patji is a Shard and that First of the Sun is referenced in one of the letters. This can only be the one from Autonomy. (Authorship not officially confirmed, but come on. It's pretty obvious.) Here is the text of the letter:

Quote

Cephandrius, bearer of the First Gem,

You must know better than to approach us by relying upon presumption of past relationship. You have spoken to one who cannot respond. We, instead, will take your communication to us--though we know not how you located us upon this world. We are indeed intrigued, for we thought it well hidden. Insignificant among our many realms.
As the waves of the sea must continue to surge, so must our will continue resolute. Alone.

Did you expect anything else from us? We need not suffer the interference of another. Rayse is contained, and we care not for his prison. Indeed, we admire his initiative. Perhaps if you had approached the correct one of us with your plea, it would have found favorable audience. But we stand in the sea, pleased with our domains. Leave us alone.

We also instruct that you should not return to Obrodai. We have claimed that world, and a new avatar of our being is beginning to manifest there. She is young yet, and--as a precaution--she has been instilled with an intense and overpowering dislike of you. This is all we will say at this time. If you wish more, seek these waters in person and overcome the tests we have created. Only in this will you earn our respect.

All the water references, plus the WoB above, make it clear that Patji is an avatar of Autonomy. The pronouns and articles are a little ambiguous (ha!) but I interpret "this world" is the reference to First of the Sun, being distinct from Obrodai. (Note that Brandon had previously RAFO'd whether Hoid had been to the Drominad system, which now appears to be a question of more significance than I thought.)

So my question: does all of this imply that the Ghostbloods have connections to Autonomy?

Others in the thread have already cited the AU essays, where Khriss states that no Silverlight teams have yet survived their exploration attempts. While the skills and knowledge of the Ghostbloods make it plausible they could successfully capture an aviar, it would be far easier if they had at least the tacit support of the local Shard. We still don't know anything about the origins or motives of the organization, but whatever they are up to could well have Bavadin's approval or coincide with her own goals. I speculate that they are not working at her specific direction, since they seem very autonomous (ha! irony!) and their methods are different from those of the organization we presume to be working for her elsewhere in the cosmere. (Scadrial spoilers below)

Spoiler

The Set, from Mistborn Era 2, is targeting overt political power and a monopoly on the metallic arts. In Bands of Mourning they appear to be backed by agents of Trell who have their own distinct motives. As someone who initially thought the Trell=Autonomy theories were far-fetched, I believe the new letter in OB basically confirms them and I will be seriously shocked if it turns out to be anything else.

Note also that Mraize's collection includes sand from Taldain, a planet Khriss says has been closed to travel.

On 10/17/2017 at 11:49 AM, Ookla the Toasted said:

This reminds me, Taldain is supposed to be closed down by Autonomy. Wonder how Mraize got the sand.

Maybe the presence of the sand and aviar together are evidence that not everyone is excluded from her domains. There are other explanations, but this one makes sense to me.

 

Aside: 

On 10/18/2017 at 4:55 PM, Ookla the Contradictory said:

Whenever the birds are seen using the powers, they're located on Six's shoulders, exactly like as shown with Mraize.

This isn't quite correct. We see the powers work at a short distance multiple times when the birds are in flight or perched nearby, and there are comments along the lines of staying "within range."

[StormingTexan]

I'd just like to pat myself on the back that I called it on page one and not only that but called that we would only get confirmation from a WoB. Now I am never right about anything and that is the only reason I am bringing this up as it is my one and only correct guess. 

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by StormingTexan

[Calyx]

On 10/17/2017 at 9:29 AM, Tarion said:

 

  Hide contents

That's where I'm going to disagree. Those worlds are easily accessible (The ones in published Cosmere works, anyway) and the magic is obvious and public. The Royal locks are well known, Kandra are part of the religion by Era 2 Mistborn and Taldain has sand masters as a known entity. If you got to those worlds and spoke to the locals, you could find out about all of those things and from there, finding them might be expensive, but it's not impossible. 

You show up on Patji and there's no-one to talk to you (And even if you found your way to the mainland, no-one willing to share the secret of the invested worms) and the environment is trying to kill you. Even if you managed to survive, there's no way short of sheer blind luck to work out that there are magic birds which gain powers from magic worms. You'd need to escape the island, get to the mainland, find out that there are magic birds, find the source of the birds magic, and get the worms.

 

The thing is, Mraize doesn't need to know any of those things - he just has to come across the bird (which I think nest by the lake that is presumably the perpendicularity?) and notice it gives him some power. He doesn't need to know why.

I think it is plausible that Mraize has an aviar, but certainly far from proven.

[Fourth Of The Night]

13 minutes ago, Calyx said:

The thing is, Mraize doesn't need to know any of those things - he just has to come across the bird (which I think nest by the lake that is presumably the perpendicularity?) and notice it gives him some power. He doesn't need to know why.

I think it is plausible that Mraize has an aviar, but certainly far from proven.

See my post further up this page: It has been confirmed by WoB that this is an Aviar.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Fourth Of The Night

[Calyx]

11 minutes ago, Fourth Of The Night said:

See my post further up this page: It has been confirmed by WoB that this is an Aviar.

Ah. Excellent.

[ccstat]

On 11/13/2017 at 10:46 PM, JoyBlu said:

 I’m sitting next to someone who was with Brandon earlier today. Brandon confirmed to him that Mraize has an Aviar. Mraize is not from first of the sun. There are clues in the book as to what the  Aviar’s power is. 

 

On 11/16/2017 at 11:58 AM, taxilian said:

He did not specify which book.

So the WoBs that we have in Arcanum do not include the part where he said that the clues are in the book, but I trust the report. 

There is not a lot happening in the scene where the aviar is present. The chicken chirps at Shallan twice when she speaks angrily to Mraize, and Ialai conveniently decides to send both Mraize and Shallan into the side room at the same time so they can chat. Here are the relevant quotes:

Quote

Ialai leaned forward, inspecting Adolin and chewing on his words. If there was one thing Adolin could convey, it was authenticity.

“Fetch him a chair,” Ialai said to Mraize.

“Yes, Brightness,” he said, his voice thick with a rural accent that bordered on Herdazian. 

Ialaithen looked to Shallan. “And you. Make yourself useful. There are teas warming in the side room.”

...

“What are you doing here?” she hissed at him. His chicken chirped softly, as if in agitation.

...

“A task?” Shallan snapped, causing the chicken to chirp at her again. “Mraize, I’m not going to do some task for you people. You killed Jasnah.”

The chirping looks like the best candidate clue to me, but other than sensing hostility (which doesn't seem super useful as an aviar trait) I can't guess what it's responding to.

Unless I missed something, we don't see that chicken again in OB.

[JoyBlu]

On 12/7/2017 at 11:28 PM, ccstat said:

The chirping looks like the best candidate clue to me, but other than sensing hostility (which doesn't seem super useful as an aviar trait) I can't guess what it's responding to.

Unless I missed something, we don't see that chicken again in OB.

I have not made the time to go reread Sixth of Dusk after finishing Oathbringer but I’m wondering if there will be clues in there. I also remember birds in WarBreaker that I didn’t pay much attention to (But need to on a reread).  (Except that one guy tortured birds in WarBreaker). 

 

I wonder if the color of the Aviar is a clue to its powers. I also wonder about the chirping as well @ccstat Perhaps it indicates someone who has bonded a spren or something (or has access to investiture some how). 

[ccstat]

Good point about color. None of the aviar have physical descriptions in the coppermind, so that will have to wait for a reread. I'll check it out if someone doesn't beat me to it.