Toaster Retribution

[OB] Mraize and his Bird

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Mraize has a bird. Some people are very smart, and identified it as a likely aviar (from Sixth of the Dusk). It makes sense, considering what we know of Mraize. What I find interesting about this is two things: how did he get it, and what can it do?

In the AU essay on Drominad, Khriss states that First of the Sun is a dangerous place to travel to. The expedtitions sent from Silverlight has not returned? Is Mraize badass enough to get there, get a bird, and get out? Or did someone else (Iyatil?) do it for him?

And then, what can it do? Mraize certainly needs something to keep up with Radiants and Voidbringers. Will the aviar help him with this? Or is it just a normal bird?

And then, last but not least, has he named it? In that case, I bet it's named Fred.

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I think i wouldn´t be that difficult for him to get an Aviar. I´m going to spoiler the rest since we´re in the Stormlight board.

Spoiler

Geting to First of the Sun probably isn´t that much more difficult than getting on any other planet, the problem is once you are on the physical realm and take a few steps you are in a jungle where literally everything is trying to kill you and you probably don´t know that so good luck. But to get an Aviar you don´t have to go into the jungle, the birds are right there at the perpendiculary. The Silverlght expidition were probably trying to get to humans and more the scolary type so i wouldn´t bet on their survival on Patji

 

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24 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Mraize certainly needs something to keep up with Radiants and Voidbringers.

I actually have the opposite opinion. With all the cosmere items that Mraize has, it makes me think Radiants and Voidbringers are the ones who need help keeping up.

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9 minutes ago, Samaldin said:

I think i wouldn´t be that difficult for him to get an Aviar. I´m going to spoiler the rest since we´re in the Stormlight board.

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Geting to First of the Sun probably isn´t that much more difficult than getting on any other planet, the problem is once you are on the physical realm and take a few steps you are in a jungle where literally everything is trying to kill you and you probably don´t know that so good luck. But to get an Aviar you don´t have to go into the jungle, the birds are right there at the perpendiculary. The Silverlght expidition were probably trying to get to humans and more the scolary type so i wouldn´t bet on their survival on Patji

 

So, the issue here is that you'd need to know that the grubs the birds eat are invested, and provide abilities to the birds that eat them.

It's not impossible, but it's really, really unlikely. Especially since no-one from Silverlight has ever returned from FotS, so no stories about their magic birds.

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3 minutes ago, Tarion said:

 

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So, the issue here is that you'd need to know that the grubs the birds eat are invested, and provide abilities to the birds that eat them.

It's not impossible, but it's really, really unlikely. Especially since no-one from Silverlight has ever returned from FotS, so no stories about their magic birds.

 

It's also really, really unlikely that one person would have an aether, a branch from Yolen, kandra spikes, a lock of Idrian royal hair, and sand from dayside Taldain (am I forgetting anything?). BUT if anyone could have all of those, they could probably have an Aviar from First of the Sun.

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Good point above too you can grab one pretty easily with little risk. 

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I like the sensing Investiture idea. I can also see it protecting him from investiture-based attacks.

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6 minutes ago, Salkara said:

It's also really, really unlikely that one person would have an aether, a branch from Yolen, kandra spikes, a lock of Idrian royal hair, and sand from dayside Taldain (am I forgetting anything?). BUT if anyone could have all of those, they could probably have an Aviar from First of the Sun.

That's where I'm going to disagree. Those worlds are easily accessible (The ones in published Cosmere works, anyway) and the magic is obvious and public. The Royal locks are well known, Kandra are part of the religion by Era 2 Mistborn and Taldain has sand masters as a known entity. If you got to those worlds and spoke to the locals, you could find out about all of those things and from there, finding them might be expensive, but it's not impossible. 

You show up on Patji and there's no-one to talk to you (And even if you found your way to the mainland, no-one willing to share the secret of the invested worms) and the environment is trying to kill you. Even if you managed to survive, there's no way short of sheer blind luck to work out that there are magic birds which gain powers from magic worms. You'd need to escape the island, get to the mainland, find out that there are magic birds, find the source of the birds magic, and get the worms.

Edited by Tarion
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Regarding Mraize's bird
 

Spoiler

 

Isn't Sixth of the Dusk also the furthest forward time wise of all of the events? Such that when Khriss writes her stuff about it, the events of Sixth haven't yet taken place?

If that's the case and given that almost no one knows about why the birds are able to do what they can do I'd lean very heavily against it being an Aviar.  It defies belief or description at this point in time.  Even if it is an Aviar, we have no way of knowing or proof that anything it does on First is translatable to Roshar at this time.

 

In any case, Shallan recognizes it as a kind of weird chicken, "a stranger kind" as she says.  It doesn't resemble to me anyway a bird from another world, though I suppose it might be a parrot instead of a chicken.  Regardless, I'm going to take her word on it that it resembles a Rosharan bird enough that she knows what she's talking about for the time being.

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3 minutes ago, Mulk said:

Regarding Mraize's bird
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Isn't Sixth of the Dusk also the furthest forward time wise of all of the events? Such that when Khriss writes her stuff about it, the events of Sixth haven't yet taken place?

If that's the case and given that almost no one knows about why the birds are able to do what they can do I'd lean very heavily against it being an Aviar.  It defies belief or description at this point in time.  Even if it is an Aviar, we have no way of knowing or proof that anything it does on First is translatable to Roshar at this time.

 

In any case, Shallan recognizes it as a kind of weird chicken, "a stranger kind" as she says.  It doesn't resemble to me anyway a bird from another world, though I suppose it might be a parrot instead of a chicken.  Regardless, I'm going to take her word on it that it resembles a Rosharan bird enough that she knows what she's talking about for the time being.

In fairness, "chicken" is what the Rosharans call all birds. 

https://imgur.com/gallery/VmFxx

 

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19 minutes ago, Tarion said:

 

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Taldian has sand masters as a known entity.

 

This reminds me, Taldain is supposed to be closed down by Autonomy. Wonder how Mraize got the sand.

3 minutes ago, Mulk said:

Regarding Mraize's bird
 

  Hide contents

 

Isn't Sixth of the Dusk also the furthest forward time wise of all of the events? Such that when Khriss writes her stuff about it, the events of Sixth haven't yet taken place?

If that's the case and given that almost no one knows about why the birds are able to do what they can do I'd lean very heavily against it being an Aviar.  It defies belief or description at this point in time.  Even if it is an Aviar, we have no way of knowing or proof that anything it does on First is translatable to Roshar at this time.

 

 

The birds have been on Patji for a long time though. It isn't that off to assume that there were aviar on FotS during Stormlight. And Mraize has a collection of stuff that he grabbed while worldhopping. Him having an aviar wouldn't be strange at all.

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1 minute ago, Tarion said:

That's where I'm going to disagree. Those worlds are easily accessible (The ones in published Cosmere works, anyway) and the magic is obvious and public. The Royal locks are well known, Kandra are part of the religion by Era 2 Mistborn and Taldain has sand masters as a known entity. If you got to those worlds and spoke to the locals, you could find out about all of those things and from there, finding them might be expensive, but it's not impossible. 

You show up on Patji and there's no-one to talk to you (And even if you found your way to the mainland, no-one willing to share the secret of the invested worms) and the environment is trying to kill you. Even if you managed to survive, there's no way short of sheer blind luck to work out that there are magic birds which gain powers from magic worms. You'd need to escape the island, get to the mainland, find out that there are magic birds, find the source of the birds magic, and get the worms. 

Taking a kandra's spikes isn't an easy task, Bavadin has made Taldain inaccessible (at least currently), and Yolen? Mraize clearly has skills.

Onto Patji. We've only seen the island from the PoV of Sixth of the Dusk, a man with very primitive technology. Vathi was able to kill a nightmaw with her portable harpoon-cannon, and she didn't seem like she had much in the way of survivalist training. Mraize, on the otherhand, has been pretty clear on his status as a hunter. I would not be surprised to find out he likes going to hunting expeditions to other worlds (cosmere safari, anyone?).

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1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

This reminds me, Taldain is supposed to be closed down by Autonomy. Wonder how Mraize got the sand.

The birds have been on Patji for a long time though. It isn't that off to assume that there were aviar on FotS during Stormlight. And Mraize has a collection of stuff that he grabbed while worldhopping. Him having an aviar wouldn't be strange at all.

It's not off to assume they were there.  I agree, the birds were there.  However, randomly hopping into First and grabbing a bird and escaping...I find that far fetched even for a presumed badass like Mraize.  He would want to look around more, explore more.  Unless he had connections there, there is no way he survives his first trip to Patji outisde of the possibility that all he did was hop in, grab a bird and hop out.  Patji kills the people who know it often enough after all.

We'll wait and see.  I just think people see random new thing associated with a worldhopper and immediately jump to offworld stuff because they want everything to be fraught with behind the scenes meaning.  I think the bird is just that - a bird.  And one chosen to enhance Mraize's particular reputation at this point of time, but in the end it's just a bird.  As in all other things, I'm fine to be proven wrong and it will be cool if I am.  I imagine Brandon and Peter are having a laugh at how we hop on every detail though...AGAIN. :D

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1 hour ago, Mulk said:

As in all other things, I'm fine to be proven wrong and it will be cool if I am.  I imagine Brandon and Peter are having a laugh at how we hop on every detail though...AGAIN. :D

I am with @Mulk here: Mraizes bird by its description is just a run-of-the-mill parakeet, nothing like "the other birds secretly mentioned above" (too lazy to put spoiler tags around).

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My only real wish for this bird is that at some point Hoid cooks it and eats it.

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Only Brandon could elicit so much discussion over mentioning a "chicken". 

I'm not going to say it is 100% an Avir but I think it is a likely possibility. I also think it is a little baseless to dismiss it as an Avir because it would be too hard to have one with what we have seen of his collection. 

I am guessing though we will not get in book proof that it is an Avir and said proof will have to come latter in the form of a WoB. I believe it is mostly an easter egg like the rest of his collection. 

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Am i the only one that thought it was a spren in disguise? We know that pattern can be sen by anyone, why cant this be a spren that can be seen and change its physical form?

This would also open Mraize to either being a KR or possibly bonded to Voidspren. 

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12 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

I am guessing though we will not get in book proof that it is an Avir and said proof will have to come latter in the form of a WoB. I believe it is mostly an easter egg like the rest of his collection. 

He might use it in the story though, to give Mraize powers. He could probably find a feasible way to explain an aviar without going to deep into Cosmere stuff.

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35 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

He might use it in the story though, to give Mraize powers. He could probably find a feasible way to explain an aviar without going to deep into Cosmere stuff.

The only power the parakeet will give to Mraize is the power to be shat upon :-D

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I find this incredibly presumptuous. Sure, it's possible that his chicken is an Aviar, but to claim it with such conviction with virtually no evidence... I don't like it. 

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33 minutes ago, Argent said:

I find this incredibly presumptuous. Sure, it's possible that his chicken is an Aviar, but to claim it with such conviction with virtually no evidence... I don't like it. 

Come one don´t take my fun away, Sixth of the Dusk is one of my favourite cosmere storys^^

Also Mraize (or someone else who told him) could have known about Aviar simply by observing the planet from the cognitive realm, Khriss mentions that that is a more or less common practice for places without a perpendiculary

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49 minutes ago, Argent said:

I find this incredibly presumptuous. Sure, it's possible that his chicken is an Aviar, but to claim it with such conviction with virtually no evidence... I don't like it. 

We have about as much evidence to it being a normal bird though. And, knowing Mraize, this is in character. The arguments against it are basically that it is unlikely, which is wrong, since Mraize has trophies from planets that are harder to get to than FotS (Yolen and Taldain), and that Brandon doesn't want to mix in too many obvious Cosmere references into Stormlight, as well as the fact that SA might have been outlined before Brandon invented the Aviar (including one with Mraize might not be that big of a change to the outline though, so that is kind of moot as well). 

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5 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

We have about as much evidence to it being a normal bird though. And, knowing Mraize, this is in character. The arguments against it are basically that it is unlikely, which is wrong, since Mraize has trophies from planets that are harder to get to than FotS (Yolen and Taldain), and that Brandon doesn't want to mix in too many obvious Cosmere references into Stormlight, as well as the fact that SA might have been outlined before Brandon invented the Aviar (including one with Mraize might not be that big of a change to the outline though, so that is kind of moot as well). 

My argument is not "it's a regular bird". I've seen a surprising number of people grow absolutely convinced, no doubts, that Mraize has an Aviar. Which, given how little we know, strikes me as wishful thinking. It's less the claim and more the certainty with which it is made that bothers me. 

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