[OB] The Dustbringer

[maxal]

10 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

She's probably an unimportant character. We haven't had a main character dustbringer yet

How do we know this? It may be she will become an important character later on. It is way too early to tell. Brandon did warn us we haven't met a Dustbringer yet, now we did and yes, it wasn't someone we have previously met. She is someone new.

2 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

On a side-note, these WoB's provide us with several possibilities:

1. Shalash bonds a Spren and becomes a Dustbringer, allowing us to learn about the Dustbringers in her book.
2. Chana is indisposed(or dead) at the time of Shalash's book, so she takes command of the Dustbringers in the interim, allowing us to learn about Dustbringers in her book without her being a Dustbringer.
3. Shalash takes up Chana's Honorblade(for reasons), allowing us to learn different stuff about Dustbringer powers from her, and learning about the Order itself from some minor character like say.. Redin.

Additionally, under the first WoB, Eshonai doesn't even have to be a Radiant for us to learn about whichever Order in her book. She still might be, since Brandon always answers those questions with "in the past..."

Or no flashback sequences are written for a Dustbringer character. Flashback sequences do not have to be tied to knights, we just assumed they would be.

Edited October 17, 2017 by maxal

[Steeldancer]

really whatever. I'm just excited we have a dustbringer, and am THRILLED to see what her powers will be. I would not mind an awesome scene with her taking down Kaladin or something.

[Nymeros]

5 minutes ago, maxal said:

Or no flashback sequences are written for a Dustbringer character. Flashback sequences do not have to be tied to knights, we just assumed they would be.

Nahhhh, that makes far too much sense to be acceptable. /sarcasm

1 hour ago, Watchcry said:

Don’t even lighteyes’ eyes turn the color of their order until the effects of stormlight or use of their shardblade wear off?

No. Shallans eyes dont change colors and neither do Renarins.

[The One Who Connects]

2 minutes ago, maxal said:

Or no flashback sequences are written for a Dustbringer character. Flashback sequences do not have to be tied to knights, we just assumed they would be.

I felt that option was implied in my 2, "allowing us to learn about Dustbringers in her book without her being a Dustbringer."

I simply took the liberty of assuming that if we learned about Dustbringers in her book, she'd probably be around them during the normal chapters. Granted, Brandon could easily pull a "WoK Kaladin/Shallan" again, allowing us to learn a little about an order from someone who is completely separate from the flashback character, but then we'd have no tenuous connections to theorize about

[BlackYeti]

9 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

I don't think we have direct evidence of that, and I also think that a WoB says that once a light eyes, you won't get the eye color change. I emphasize think, as I have no clue about searching for WoB.

I think that's probably this WoB:

Quote

QUESTION

My question has to do with the color of Shallan’s eyes currently, because we’ve noticed over the books that Kaladin’s eyes, as he’s continued to use his Surge, changed to lighter and lighter blue. Whereas one could argue that Shallan is farther in her Ideals than Kaladin is, yet her eyes have not changed at all.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Right, ‘cause they were already light.

QUESTION

‘Cause they were already light? So it only affects lightness or darkness in the eyes, not necessarily any other color?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It’s not like it is-- It’s not like it’s saying “Light minus 50%”.

QUESTION

It’s not like Honor is blue and--

BRANDON SANDERSON

No. It is not. It is just kind of the way that the changes the Stormlight is making the body and certain people are already descended from people who had repeated, over time, changes by the body which stopped physically… That’s not to say that all lighteyes that’s where they came from. There are some that are natural mutations.

I don't think this necessarily means what you suggest. At first, from Brandon's response, it seems like he's talking about Shallan's eyes getting lighter, rather than changing colour. He's saying, it's not the case that a person's eyes will get lighter by a set amount/proportion each time they "level up".

When the questioner does bring up the colour itself at the end, they bring it up in relation to the Shards, not the Orders, and so Brandon might be interpreting the question differently. It doesn't help that his answer at the end is so hard to parse, I suspect it's a case where it would have made more sense if we had heard him talking, rather than just reading the transcript.

Basically, the WoB could be saying that the only thing that becoming a Radiant changes with regard to the eyes is to make them lighter if they are not already light, or it could be saying that the eyes lighten if they are not already light and does not indicate whether they change colour as well.

Certainly, the Honourblades, at least, change your eye colour. Szeth's eyes change from dark green to light sapphire when he summons it.

[maxal]

54 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

I felt that option was implied in my 2, "allowing us to learn about Dustbringers in her book without her being a Dustbringer."

I simply took the liberty of assuming that if we learned about Dustbringers in her book, she'd probably be around them during the normal chapters. Granted, Brandon could easily pull a "WoK Kaladin/Shallan" again, allowing us to learn a little about an order from someone who is completely separate from the flashback character, but then we'd have no tenuous connections to theorize about

I have somehow became doubtful the focus of "one book per order" will be respected in a firm manner. It seems odd we wouldn't learn anything about say "Truthwatchers" until we get to Renarin's book. As thus, I have taken the one book per order as a very lose term which may not hold the road once we finish the series. I am thinking Brandon is juggling in between wanting to show one book per order and showing the Heralds' backstory. Mind, we have to keep in mind the flashbacks aren't mean to flesh out knights but to unravel secrets from the past.

This being said, I do agree you did imply my suggestion within your point #2, so my bad 

[The One Who Connects]

5 minutes ago, maxal said:

It seems odd we wouldn't learn anything about say "Truthwatchers" until we get to Renarin's book. As thus, I have taken the one book per order as a very lose term which may not hold the road once we finish the series.

Reasonable enough. It might be the Order we learn "the most about" in the Book, but not necessarily the only time we learn about them. That'd probably still work with "focus on an Order" wording.

5 minutes ago, maxal said:

This being said, I do agree you did imply my suggestion within your point #2, so my bad 

No worries

Edited October 18, 2017 by The One Who Connects

[maxal]

1 minute ago, The One Who Connects said:

Reasonable enough. It might be the Order we learn "the most about" in the Book, but not necessarily the only time we learn about them. That'd probably still work with "focus on an Order" wording.

Think about how much we learn on Edgedancers within the Edgedancer novel... Lift is supposed to have a book later on: if there is one order will likely know a lot about once we get there, it has to be the Edgedancers.

[Elanmorin]

I don't believe Mr.T's "Releaser" is a Radiant at all. At most I think she might have the Releaser Honorblade.

If memory serves I think it was in WoK that we get the snippet from the Diagram were Mr.T knows the Honorblades are with the Shin and that they might be used to create a Truthless.

My current belief is that if Mr.Ts "Releaser" can surgebind it is because of one of the Honorblades used to forge Szeth. I had actually considered that Malata might not even have an Honorblade and be a complete decoy because they could possibly avoid a demonstration under the excuse that the Releaser surges are too dangerous, but all Dalinar has to do is ask her to inhale Stormlight. For that matter, does Dalinar know that Radiants can make their spren change into any weapon? That's a perfect Radiant confirming check.

I actually expect Mr.T to have at least two Honorblades in his company, since it was mentioned that he specifically wanted to hide Adrotagia from Szeth, and I expect he would want a second way back, if necessary. Her having an Honorblade seems the most likely reason to me. By presenting Malata as a Releaser she instantly becomes the biggest threat and draws the focus away from who I think the real powerhouse is.

 

[Yata]

Stealing Honorblade isn't something Easy.

The Stone Shaman aren't soft with them.

Someone proposed She had the Taln's stolen Blade but It Will be a stupid thing to declare another order rather the One your Blade actually allow you to imitate.

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, Elanmorin said:

I don't believe Mr.T's "Releaser" is a Radiant at all. At most I think she might have the Releaser Honorblade.

If memory serves I think it was in WoK that we get the snippet from the Diagram were Mr.T knows the Honorblades are with the Shin and that they might be used to create a Truthless.

And how exactly do you propose that Taravangian stole an Honorblade from the Shin without a Radiant, or Szeth while he had his Honorblade, to do so? 

What is barring her from being a Radiant? 

[Tarion]

2 hours ago, Yata said:

Someone proposed She had the Taln's stolen Blade but It Will be a stupid thing to declare another order rather the One your Blade actually allow you to imitate.

I think you can get away with claiming a "neighbour" order, as Shallan is doing. But Stoneward powers and claiming Dustbringer seems particularly difficult, when they have very different powers (Although I suppose you could use Cohesion to fake Division, by reducing Cohesion in a thing until it collapses). 

The bigger question would be why - I can't see any benefit to claiming the "wrong" Order in these circumstances, especially when you're claiming the more disreputable option. 

[Elanmorin]

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

And how exactly do you propose that Taravangian stole an Honorblade from the Shin without a Radiant, or Szeth while he had his Honorblade, to do so?

I don't, that is open ended. Do we know if MrT went to the Nightwatcher before or after Szeth became Truthless?

 

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

What is barring her from being a Radiant? 

Nothing. Her being a Radiant just seems too straightforward to me. And based on MrT's internal dialogue in WoR (which I could be misremembering) I expect Adrotagia to be the "real" Radiant or at least another Radiant they aren't telling Dalinar about.

[Yata]

11 minutes ago, Elanmorin said:

I don't, that is open ended. Do we know if MrT went to the Nightwatcher before or after Szeth became Truthless?

I believe It's After Szeth became Truthless.

There is a WoB in the regard of MrT's meeting with the Nightwatcher regard the Gavilar's Murder...But I am unsure, how this Will fit with retriving Honorblades?

Edited October 18, 2017 by Yata

[Wreith]

1 hour ago, Yata said:

1 hour ago, Elanmorin said:

I don't, that is open ended. Do we know if MrT went to the Nightwatcher before or after Szeth became Truthless?

I believe It's After Szeth became Truthless.

Rysn's interlude in WoK tells us Szeth left Shinovar 7 year prior. The new chapters (24) for Oathbringer say that MrT changed 5 years ago.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Wreith
chapter number

[Toaster Retribution]

I honestly think Malata is what she seems to be - a Dustbringer. What we should be asking is who she is working for, not wether or not she is a Radiant. It would be a huge stretch to assume that she has a Honorblade, or that she is lying about her powers. She could open the Oathgate, so she is a Radiant. I don't see how anything else than her being a Dustbringer makes sense.

[The Invested Beard]

2 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I honestly think Malata is what she seems to be - a Dustbringer. What we should be asking is who she is working for, not wether or not she is a Radiant. It would be a huge stretch to assume that she has a Honorblade, or that she is lying about her powers. She could open the Oathgate, so she is a Radiant. I don't see how anything else than her being a Dustbringer makes sense.

We do have confirmation that Oathblades can open the Oathgates so she technically wouldn't have to be a Radiant to do so, just be bonded to an Oathblade.

Now I'm not saying I don't think she's a Releaser (I do), just throwing that out there.

Edited October 18, 2017 by The Invested Beard

[Toaster Retribution]

1 minute ago, The Invested Beard said:

We do have confirmation that Oathblades can open the Oathgates so she technically wouldn't have to be a Radiant to do so, just be bonded to an Oathblade.

Now I'm not saying I don't think she's a Releaser (I do), just throwing that out there.

Yeah, I think I worded the post badly. I meant that since there is no logical way for her to have a Honorblade, she has to be a Radiant, since she could activate the Oathgates :-)

[The Invested Beard]

Just now, Toaster Retribution said:

Yeah, I think I worded the post badly. I meant that since there is no logical way for her to have a Honorblade, she has to be a Radiant, since she could activate the Oathgates :-)

Yeah, I mean she did summon a shardblade. So it's either one or the other at this point and I'm really hoping she's the real deal.

[Yata]

1 hour ago, Wreith said:

Rysn's interlude in WoK tells us Szeth left Shinovar 7 year prior. The new chapters (24) for Oathbringer say that MrT changed 5 years ago.

Just for sake of completeness:

Szeth was made Truthless two years before Gavilar's Murder and by this WoB Mr. T visit the NW after the Gavilar's Murder

Quote

QUESTION ()

Did Taravangian go to see the Nightwatcher before or after Gavilar's assassination?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Um, oh man. I'm going to have to look at my timeline. I believe it's before, but I can't guarantee I'm right, because these things are all happening around the same time.

QUESTION

Because he says that Gavilar confided in him the night of.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Ooooh, you're right. Nope, it's after. It is after. You can send that question to Peter so we can confirm it. There might be something I'm forgetting about Taravangian.

[Peter said by PM: "As far as I can tell from what the book says, he went to the Nightwatcher after the assassination."]

 

[Aleksiel]

Yet in the Diagram we find:

Quote

"AhbuttheywereleftbehindItisobviousfromthenatureofthebondButwherewherewherewhereSetoffObviousRealizationlikeapricityTheyarewiththeShinWemustfindoneCanwemaketouseaTruthlessCanwecraftaweapon"

I thought Vargo did something to help create a truthless, but the timeline doesn't match. So he just used looked for a Truthless instead of making one as this would suggest. 

[Ansalem]

2 hours ago, Aleksiel said:

Yet in the Diagram we find:

I thought Vargo did something to help create a truthless, but the timeline doesn't match. So he just used looked for a Truthless instead of making one as this would suggest. 

Probably just created the Diagram before he found out about Szeth. No reason to make a Truthless if there conveniently already is one. Besides, it says "can we make to use a Truthless", not "can we make a Truthless".

[Wreith]

1 minute ago, Ansalem said:

Probably just created the Diagram before he found out about Szeth. No reason to make a Truthless if there conveniently already is one. Besides, it says "can we make to use a Truthless", not "can we make a Truthless".

it means "make a Truthless to use"
make to use is actually proper grammar because you weren't supposed to end a sentence with a prepositional phrase.

[Ansalem]

1 minute ago, Wreith said:

it means "make a Truthless to use"
make to use is actually proper grammar because you weren't supposed to end a sentence with a prepositional phrase.

It can be read either way. Could simply be an oddly phrased way to say "can we conspire to use a Truthless". Taravangian was frantic and deranged at the time. He couldn't even be bothered to space his words, after all.

Either way that wasn't my primary point.

[Wreith]

1 minute ago, Ansalem said:

It can be read either way. Could simply be an oddly phrased way to say "can we conspire to use a Truthless". Taravangian was frantic and deranged at the time. He couldn't even be bothered to space his words, after all.

Either way that wasn't my primary point.

I wasn't contesting your point that he decided to make use of an existing Truthless.

I was contesting the implication that his only intention was to make use of a Truthless.
The wording clearly means that he pondered the creation of a Truthless for his own ends. I very much disagree that it can be read either way.