Ambition on Sel...?

[Toaster Retribution]

I just read through the chapter where Hrathen first meets Dilaf, and I found this:

Quote

It was a very Fjordell thing to do - ambition was the one emotion Jaddeth would accept as readily as devotion.

Bolded parts are bolded by me, of course. This is probably just what it seems to be: a description of Fjordell culture and religion, but Devotion is the name of one of the Sel Shards, and having those two words so close to eachother... wanted to see peoples thoughts about this. Is it possible that Ambition had some early influence on Sel? Or that Jaddeth is partly based off him?

Edited October 14, 2017 by Toaster Retribution

[Pagerunner]

I'm not seeing much of a connection to Fjordell for either of those Shards. Devotion is Aona's Shard, and its splinters are the Seons. In Fjordell, they have the Skaze, splinters of Dominion. It looks like Opelon is the region that is influenced most by Devotion.

Sometimes words are just words. I think this is one of those cases.

[Dysphoric Kitten]

I want to dissect it a bit. TL;DR!!!

Step one: we are talking of religion. Specifically, Shu-Dereth.

There is something interesting about Shu-Dereth. It is an offshoot of a religion named Shu-Keseg, and is differentiated by it's preoccupation with hierarchical power. The entire culture is predicated on the idea of ownership, of power over others and their direction in life being to be the best to you specifically. They are not emotionally devoted to you. Hrathen is not devoted to the religion, to the teachings. He is merely respectful to its logic, believing it to be magnificent in organisation. The religion itself, is devoted to dominating people and places. And as such, I would consider it devoted to dominion.

What did Hrathen think Jaddeth (the god of the religion of dominion) accepted? Devotion and ambition. Both of these are reasons to be better than a master may expect from you. 

Devotion is the shard opposite to Dominion, its complement, and the two are mixed in the Dor. Devotion, by the way, is greatly analogous to Shu-Dereth's sibling and counterpart: Shu-Korath. And so, I believe the quote should not be taken at face value, saying that Jaddeth's empire is devotion and ambition. No, Jaddeth's empire is not that. But it relates to both heavily.

Dominion would gladly accept devotion to their causes. I can argue that Devotion would gladly accept subservience for the furthering of their causes. The two are not as hostile as Preservation and Ruin, it seems. The latter two are too general, too at odds, to be associated other than by their conflict. They have a tiny bit in common, like both being more universal constants than anything else, but the only thing that makes the two intertwined is their conflict.

But Devotion and Dominion - they are united in uniting others. They are related, both are very much about people. They are emotional. While opposites, they complement each other and synergise, instead of negating each other, only wasting energy. They both are great motivators for action, specifically for accomplishment. Devotion making others' accomplishments and helping them, Dominion accomplishing themselves using others. Both fuse exceptionally well with ambition, and they are driving forces for ambition.

I would say that Dominion and Devotion are the Ambitious Shards. And so, displaying ambition is actually the pure form of their synergy, it is the parent of both (might be related to Keseg) and is just as good as displaying either one.

 

TL;DR end

I think Dominion and Devotion are synergic, they fuse well. Each can utilise others feeling it's counterpart. And each is a driving force for ambition. Moreover, each is directed to affecting others and the world (just like their religion) and would utilise the other, but mostly to motivate, as ambition would. (everything makes more sense in the longer thing but still)

[Farnsworth]

This is a bit of a stretch, but it’s possible that Dominion’s vessel was close with Ambition’s vessel before the Shattering. If that’s the case, they could be interacting via the SR. Maybe Ambition influenced Shu-Dereth.

[Yata]

1 hour ago, Farnsworth said:

This is a bit of a stretch, but it’s possible that Dominion’s vessel was close with Ambition’s vessel before the Shattering. If that’s the case, they could be interacting via the SR. Maybe Ambition influenced Shu-Dereth.

But Dominion was Splintered far before the Shu-Dereth's birth. D&D's Murder happened Almost in Sel's prehistory.

A connection between the Vessels as cause is extremely unlikely.

[The One Who Connects]

On 10/14/2017 at 9:41 AM, Toaster Retribution said:

wanted to see peoples thoughts about this. Is it possible that Ambition had some early influence on Sel?

To quote myself:

On 7/10/2017 at 9:35 PM, The One Who Connects said:

2 and a half pages of train-wreck and thread hijackery are enough.

Go read up on "people's thoughts."  Come back tomorrow and tell us what you think.

[Toaster Retribution]

9 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

To quote myself:

Go read up on "people's thoughts."  Come back tomorrow and tell us what you think.

Hm... that were some interesting debates. Seems like I'm not the first to propose that Ambition visited Sel. I'd say that the focus on Ambition in the Derethi religion is suspicious. I do think that Ambition was in some way involved with Sel, and the Selish shards. Maybe that is the reason for why Odium went to Sel in the first place. Ambition might have been friends with Aona and Skai, and so Odium suspected that he might have hid on Sel...? 

Or the ambition-references on Sel are just leavings of Dominion. Attempting to dominate someone, or something, is pretty ambitious. 

[Solarserpent]

My thinking is that with that much power on Sel being loose in the cognitive realm did the Shard splinters obtain a base consciousness that is in someway a merged dominion and devotion. If the cognitive world allows for the ability of something becoming more than it was through simple belief of many people then with so much raw investiture on Sel unattached it could be possible for the the belief in gods to form actual God(s). (perhaps the Dor is itself devotion and dominion recombined controlled by an entity that is an amalgam of beliefs). Or I could be talking out of my chull.