Knight Radient order candidates

[sonwarrior01]

One of my quirks is that I always want to know more. As such, I want to know EVERY oath (or oath path for those lightweavers) for all the orders. So I am wondering if we will have a POV from every order. Is the following list accurate? Will we get a Willshaper and a Dustbringer? Does Talenel count as a Stoneward? Does Rysn fit in here somewhere? If this has been talked about in length already, could someone post the link?

Windrunners = Kaladin

Skybreakers = Szeth

Bondsmiths = Dalinar

Lightweavers = Shallan

Edgedancers = Lift

Elsecallers = Jasnah

Truthwatchers = Renarin

Willshapers = Eshonai ?

Stonewards = Talenel?

Dustbringers = Shalash ?

 

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by sonwarrior01
Adding Eshonai for Willshapers and Shalash for Dustbringers.

[Wreith]

I can't find the thread where this was discussed.

It is theorized that Eshonai is the Willshaper due to her peronality matching their traits.

Which leaves Shallash being the Dustbringer, since we have WoB that ll orders will be represented and we know she's a planned PoV character.

still hunting links. It was recent and I didn't expect it to be this hard to find

 

edit:

Spoiler

 

not the one I was looking for, but I think it has the relevant information. It's on the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, though.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Wreith
add thread link; put link in spoiler tag

[Toaster Retribution]

@Wreith

We have had several threads discussing this, it is a pretty common topic. I'll quickly go through popular forum theories for @sonwarrior01 and anyone else who is interested:

-Eshonai for Willshaper. People generally feel that her adventurous and curious personality matches the description we got of Willshapers in WoR.

-Shalash for Dustbringer. This is mostly due to her being a confirmed flashback character for the back five. People are feeling that the flashback characters should each have their own order, and since we dont have anyone else for Dustbringer, Shalash is the general choice. Other popular suggestions have been Moash and Rysn, and later on Elhokar as well. My personal opinion is that Amaram would make a cool Dustbringer. Adolin have been suggested as well, but many see him as Edgedancer material nowadays.

[Wreith]

5 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

People are feeling that the flashback characters should each have their own order,

I thought we had WoB to that effect. Do we not?

Was why I was hunting a particular thread...

[SilverTiger]

Redin, the bastard son of the Jah Keved high prince/king (two-eyed one, seen in Taravangian's interlude in WoR) has been nominated as a Dustbringer. Also, I don't get why people assume that each flashback character will be a different order.

[Wreith]

3 minutes ago, SilverTiger said:

Redin, the bastard son of the Jah Keved high prince/king (two-eyed one, seen in Taravangian's interlude in WoR) has been nominated as a Dustbringer. Also, I don't get why people assume that each flashback character will be a different order.

Well, like I said, I thought we actually had a WoB that said that. I may be wrong.

 

It is "assumed" because, if Eshonai is a Willshaper, then all of the currently planned flashback characters ARE of different orders except for Shallan and Shallash, hence the idea that Shallash becomes a Dustbringer.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Wreith
to sound less certain

[Toaster Retribution]

1 minute ago, Wreith said:

I thought we had WoB to that effect. Do we not?

Was why I was hunting a particular thread...

If we have, I have never seen it. @Extesian do we have anything on this (and tell me if you want me to stop asking you about WoBs).

2 minutes ago, SilverTiger said:

Redin, the bastard son of the Jah Keved high prince/king (two-eyed one, seen in Taravangian's interlude in WoR) has been nominated as a Dustbringer. 

Thanks. I always forget Redin for some reason. But I agree, he will be important.

2 minutes ago, SilverTiger said:

Also, I don't get why people assume that each flashback character will be a different order.

Probably because 8/10 of them is affiliated with one order each. That is a pattern. We love patterns, and want to fit in the things that don't fit in at first glance.

[SilverTiger]

1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

If we have, I have never seen it. @Extesian do we have anything on this (and tell me if you want me to stop asking you about WoBs).

Thanks. I always forget Redin for some reason. But I agree, he will be important.

Probably because 8/10 of them is affiliated with one order each. That is a pattern. We love patterns, and want to fit in the things that don't fit in at first glance.

Thanks for remembering about Redin, he has been a pet theory of mine since I started coming to the Shard. Also, the fact that it seems so reasonable and likely is a good reason against it: Sanderson does not always do the expected. For all we know, Shalash will take up her place as a Herald again. Personally, I highly doubt that Shalash will bond a spren and become a Radiant.

[Calderis]

Each book is supposed to have a main PoV character who gets the flashbacks, and each book is also representative of an Order. 

tWoK cover is blue and has the Windrunner symbol. 

WoR is Red and has the lightweaver symbol. 

While it's never explicitly stated (to my knowledge) that these two things are linked, it makes too much sense to be ignored.

This is why Shallash is presumed to be a Dustbringer later. Combined with the "weirdness" Brandon talks about with Dustbringers and whether we've seen one or not. 

Brandon has also said he kind of considers the Heralds the leaders of their orders. What could be weirder than having the former leader of the Lightweaver's drawing a spren from another order? 

[Wreith]

36 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Combined with the "weirdness" Brandon talks about with Dustbringers and whether we've seen one or not. 

Brandon has also said he kind of considers the Heralds the leaders of their orders. What could be weirder than having the former leader of the Lightweaver's drawing a spren from another order? 

Not strictly related to the topic, but I have headcanon that the Dustbringers are KR Special Forces and may ALWAYS be pulled from other orders.

 

This must be what I was thinking of

Quote

INTERVIEW: Sep 4th, 2014

Salt Lake City Comic-Con 2014 (Verbatim)

QUESTION

What are the other books in The Stormlight Archive going to be about?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Well each one is going to cover a flashback sequence for one of the characters and each one will focus on a different order of the Knights Radiant. And that's not always the same, like the flashbacks for the first one were Kaladin and it was also Windrunners, but we won't always have them be the exact same.

So that pretty clearly indicates that Shallash can be the flashback character for the Dustbringer book but not actually be a Dustbringer herself.

Same for Eshonai. She doesn't necessarily have to become a radiant even by this WoB.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Wreith
found relevant WoB

[Toaster Retribution]

Awesome WoB @Wreith. I still think that Eshonai will be a Willshaper, but I don't buy Ash as Dustbringer.

[thejopen27]

10 hours ago, sonwarrior01 said:

Skybreakers = Szeth

I think Szeth  will be a Stoneward. He is neither confident nor just. He is stubborn, he exemplifies resolve and he will follow is orders to the last. In Edgedancer he constantly challenges Nale and disagrees with him.

Also the Shin and Stone Shamans have so many connections to Stone. I wonder if they are the remnants of whichever order stayed and never abandoned their oaths. Either the Stonewards or Dustbringers. 

[SilverTiger]

10 hours ago, thejopen27 said:

I think Szeth  will be a Stoneward. He is neither confident nor just. He is stubborn, he exemplifies resolve and he will follow is orders to the last. In Edgedancer he constantly challenges Nale and disagrees with him.

Also the Shin and Stone Shamans have so many connections to Stone. I wonder if they are the remnants of whichever order stayed and never abandoned their oaths. Either the Stonewards or Dustbringers. 

I hadn't thought about this before... Szeth would make a good Stoneward. Also, I have a small theory that Eshonai will learn to wield forms of power without Odium's influence, or discover a new one he can't control, something like that.

[Humpty]

22 hours ago, thejopen27 said:

Also the Shin and Stone Shamans have so many connections to Stone. I wonder if they are the remnants of whichever order stayed and never abandoned their oaths. Either the Stonewards or Dustbringers. D

They might be some sort of remnant, however I do not think they are the Stonewards if you remember in TWoK during the Feverstone Keep vision Dalinar saw the Day of Recreance and the Stonewards and Windrunners were the two orders represented in the vision.

[Calderis]

The Shin, at least linguistically, also seem to be the human people who have been on Roshar the longest.

There are language groups on Roshar, and one of them is Dawnate (rooted in the Dawn chant). The three people's who speak a Dawnate language are the Parshendi, Unkalaki, and the Shin. 

This implies that they've been on Roshar long enough that their Language is rooted in the same source as the listeners. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/5ffl09/no_spoilers_birds_of_roshar/dake974/?context=3

Quote

IneptProfessional

Since you mention languages on Roshar, are there any languages that are completely unrelated to any other on the planet?

Brandon Sanderson

Our basic language families are:

Vorin: Alethi, Veden, Herdazian, and more distantly Thaylen. Nathan is close to dead, but shares a root, and Karbranthian is basically a dialect. Other minor languages like Bav are in here.

Makabaki: Azish is king here, and most the languages around split off this. There are around thirty of these.

Dawnate: A varied language family with distant roots in the dawnchant. Shin, parshendi, Horneater. They share grammar, but they diverged long enough ago that the vocabulary is very different.

Iri: Iriali, Reshi, Purelake dialects, Riran, and some surrounding languages.

Aimian: These two are lumped together, but are very different. Probably what you were looking for.

That isn't counting spren languages, of course. I might have missed something. Typing on my phone without my wiki handy.

Because of this, I feel that the Shin originated long before the Recreance. 

[Toaster Retribution]

On 2017-10-12 at 7:11 PM, Wreith said:

 

not the one I was looking for, but I think it has the relevant information.

Not sure if it is allowed to link to the Oathbringer threads in other parts of the forums. At least warn about it being in the spoiler board.

[Wreith]

5 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Not sure if it is allowed to link to the Oathbringer threads in other parts of the forums. At least warn about it being in the spoiler board.

put in spoiler tag.

didn't realize this thread wasn't itself in the Oathbring Spoilers board. glad I didn't actually say anything about it...

[Tesh]

Spoiler

Ohhh, yay! A topic I can actually give information on!

As Talenel and Shalash are Heralds, they got their abilities from the Honorblades, and it is highly unlikely that Shalash still has hers. 

And then Talenel. He was left behind when the other nine heralds broke the Oathpact. He had died, so he had gone back to Braize. (AKA Damnation).

But he returned to Kholinar, and he still had his honorblade.

So, I wouldn't count either of them as Radiants, as Honorblades do not make someone a Radiant, but simply grant the bearer the abilities of a Radiant of a specific order. 

Two more things.

You might want to reread the prolude to the SA.

You might also read this article on Talenel. It has a lot of great information on him.

[Wreith]

10 minutes ago, Tesh said:

But he returned to Kholinar, and he still had his honorblade

I actually don't think we know for certain the blade he was using was an honorblade

10 minutes ago, Tesh said:

So, I wouldn't count either of them as Radiants

There's a Word of Brandon that he does consider the Heralds to be a member of their respective order of Radiants. Which isn't to say that anyone holding an honorblade is a radiant.

I can't find it at the moment. The question was along the lines of Have we seen a member of every Order and Brandon's response was, do you consider the Heralds members of their order.

[Calderis]

16 minutes ago, Wreith said:

I actually don't think we know for certain the blade he was using was an honorblade

Actually we do, and it's the reason that the "man who calls himself Taln" thing has always bothered me. 

When Taln arrives at the end of tWoK, he bust open the Kholinar gate and then he drops his Blade. If it were a regular blade, it should have puff away to smoke/mist and vanished but it didn’t. 

Now, it can be argued that this just means the blade was unbonded, but if that were the case, why would anyone have bothered to secretly switch the blades? A Shardblade is a Shardblade, and switching one for another would be pointless. 

[Tesh]

23 minutes ago, Wreith said:

I actually don't think we know for certain the blade he was using was an honorblade.

 

36 minutes ago, Tesh said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

this article

"That article confirms that he used his honorblade," says I, then five seconds later, @Calderis says the same thing. (Pretty much).

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by Tesh

[Wreith]

16 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Actually we do, and it's the reason that the "man who calls himself Taln" thing has always bothered me. 

When Taln arrives at the end of tWoK, he bust open the Kholinar gate and then he drops his Blade. If it were a regular blade, it should have puff away to smoke/mist and vanished but it didn’t. 

Now, it can be argued that this just means the blade was unbonded, but if that were the case, why would anyone have bothered to secretly switch the blades? A Shardblade is a Shardblade, and switching one for another would be pointless. 

Why would anyone have bothered to secretly switch the blades regardless.

The only one stated to be present that would recognize Taln and the significance of his blade if it really was an honorblade is Hoid, and we know he didn't make the switch

Quote

Q:  Did Hoid switch out the blades?

A:  Hoid did not switch out the blades, but good question.

 

As I'm thinking about this a couple of things occurred to me.

1. The replacement blade was unbonded as well. So either someone got an unbonded blade for the purpose or unbonded theirs.

2. It's possible a switch was made because the first blade would be recognized

[Calderis]

@Wreith here's what I think happened.

 

[thejopen27]

19 hours ago, Calderis said:

The Shin, at least linguistically, also seem to be the human people who have been on Roshar the longest.

There are language groups on Roshar, and one of them is Dawnate (rooted in the Dawn chant). The three people's who speak a Dawnate language are the Parshendi, Unkalaki, and the Shin. 

This implies that they've been on Roshar long enough that their Language is rooted in the same source as the listeners. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/5ffl09/no_spoilers_birds_of_roshar/dake974/?context=3

Because of this, I feel that the Shin originated long before the Recreance. 

Or they just have the language that has changed the least

[The One Who Connects]

On 10/12/2017 at 0:24 PM, Wreith said:

I thought we had WoB to that effect. Do we not?

We have a WoB to the effect that Brandon had planned for each book will center around an Order. Book.

Quote

Q: The plan to have each book focused on one order is still on, right? Does that mean Book 3 will focus on the Bondsmiths or the Skybreakers depending on whether Dalinar or Szeth are the flashback focus? And what about the book focused on Ash, since she was the Herald of Shallan's order? Am I right in assuming that book will focus on the Dustbringers?
 
A: RAFO

It's the reason why we branded Eshonai a Willshaper-to-be and Shalash a Dustbringer-to-be in the first place, so we could have one of each in the Focus Characters. But Brandon has not specified anything further than each book will delve into an Order. And that distinction means everything.

Baseless Speculation: Shalash's book could be the one where we learn about the Dustbringers from a Proto-Dustbringer(like say.. Adolin) who is working with Shalash for some reason. Say Chana died in battle, and Shalash is picking up the slack in the meantime. That is just as feasible within the above WoB as Shalash being a Dustbringer herself.

4 hours ago, Wreith said:

I can't find it at the moment. The question was along the lines of Have we seen a member of every Order and Brandon's response was, do you consider the Heralds members of their order.

Fun fact, that question pertained to Dustbringers.

Quote

Questioner: Have we--  I think you mentioned in a previous signing that we’d already met one member of every Order of the Knights Radiant.

Brandon: Yes, I think you have.

Questioner: Is one of the Dustbringers a viewpoint character?

Brandon: One of the Dustbringers is eventually a point-of-view character.

Questioner: Haven’t been yet?

Brandon: Nnnnoooo, not yet, I don’t think.  But it depends if you count the Heralds as members of their order.

Questioner: I don’t.

Brandon: Oh, see I would, because they’re kind of heads of their Order. If you don’t count them you have not met some from every Order.

Questioner: [Have we met someone from the Dustbringers?]

Brandon: Well… Dustbringers are really complicated. /Really/ complicated. So that’s the weird one. Okay? So let’s shelve that one. You’ll see why it’s really weird later on.