[OB] Dalinar's Curse/Boon

[Bort]

So as we have seen, Dalinar's curse and/or boon seems to be wearing off, and Evi is returning to his mind. The question is, why? Some people have speculated that it is some kind of effect from him now being a Bondsmith. Not a bad guess, but I disagree. I think it is a little more awkward than that.

We're not sure what he asked for from the Nightwatcher, but either his boon or his curse was to forget the one he loved (or maybe it was phrased so he forgets 'his wife'). By this point, Evi was higher up the list than Navani, so she faded from his memory and became Shshshshsh. Now however, since Evi died, and Dalinar married Navani, Evi is coming back into his mind, and Navani is slowly leaving it.

The bit I'm still not sure on though, is if this was the boon or the curse.

Anyways, that's my speculation written up and posted. I look forward to seeing you all poke holes in my theory

[KidWayne]

Unless I missed something, Dalinar isn't confirmed to be forgetting Navani... that was just speculation about what may happen. Personally I hate that theory because it is needlessly distracting. It invalidates so much of the character building we have seen for Navani (who is kind of unscrupulous & selfish, but also good-natured, resourceful, and pleasantly sassy). It will also occupy Dalinar with a lot of navel-gazing exposition that will be annoying to read. The only way in my mind to salvage that sort of thing is for it to propel him to fix the problem by using his Bondsmith abilities to restore his connection to Navani. In just about any other conceivable plotline, I'm just bored reading about his angst over forgetting his wife while he freshly experiences the guilt that he associated with Evi.

[Wreith]

yeah, until given evidence to the contrary (likely next Tuesday) I choose to believe that he can only remember Evi when he is actively holding stormlight.

[DiamondMind]

There are 3 theories so far, and a topic discussing each:

1. As you wrote, Evi is coming back and Navani is leaving because of how the boon/curse is structured.
2. An interaction between the painrial that Dalinar started wearing at the beginning of the chapter and his Bondsmith powers somehow brought back the memories (temporarily or permanently).
3. Stormlight healed the Connection between him and Evi (temporarily or permanently).

There are points for and against all 3, and I personally think it's the third, but there isn't any conclusive evidence yet.

[Salkara]

6 hours ago, DiamondMind said:

There are 3 theories so far, and a topic discussing each:

1. As you wrote, Evi is coming back and Navani is leaving because of how the boon/curse is structured.
2. An interaction between the painrial that Dalinar started wearing at the beginning of the chapter and his Bondsmith powers somehow brought back the memories (temporarily or permanently).
3. Stormlight healed the Connection between him and Evi (temporarily or permanently).

There are points for and against all 3, and I personally think it's the third, but there isn't any conclusive evidence yet.

No conclusive evidence as of yet; however, #3 is the only one we can reasonably explain with Realmatics. The other two options require the an extension to the magic system in order to work. I'm sure we'll see the magic system get extended at some point, but why do it now when there's already an available mechanic?

Edited October 12, 2017 by Salkara

[Calderis]

Or 4) (and I like this one better than the stormlight one, because Stormlight healing him seems... Ridiculous) his memory loss had some condition attached to it which he's met and is coming back naturally, independent of anything to do with him being a Radiant. 

Or 5) Urithiru is located just north of the Valley. He's in close enough proximity to the Nightwatcher that she has, for some reason, decided to remove her gifts. 

We have no evidence for anything yet so these are just as plausible as the others. 

[Salkara]

25 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Or 4) (and I like this one better than the stormlight one, because Stormlight healing him seems... Ridiculous) his memory loss had some condition attached to it which he's met and is coming back naturally, independent of anything to do with him being a Radiant. 

Or 5) Urithiru is located just north of the Valley. He's in close enough proximity to the Nightwatcher that she has, for some reason, decided to remove her gifts. 

We have no evidence for anything yet so these are just as plausible as the others. 

How, in terms of Cosmere mechanics, would either work?

As an example, here's how I would explain stormlight healing:

1. Nightwatcher severed Dalinar's Connection to Evi.
2. Investiture (in the form of stormlight) healed the damaged Connection.

[Shadowfax]

2 hours ago, Salkara said:

I'm sure we'll see the magic system get extended at some point, but why do it now when there's already an available mechanic?

Or this could be a stepping stone into showing us the expansion of the magic system. 

 

I proposed theory #2 the resonance/fabrial thing, but I'm willing (and expecting) to be wrong. But if we expect the system to be expanded, there's no reason to brush off a possible expansion of the system simply because there could be other solution already in place.

 

I am pretty firm in my belief it wasn't Stormlight though. Again, willing to be wrong, but in this I hope I'm not. Stormlight feels (to me) like a cheap way to fix something this huge.

[Caesura]

55 minutes ago, Calderis said:

...Stormlight healing him seems... Ridiculous...

What makes you say that? I think it makes fairly good sense. Like I've seen people say elsewhere, this is the first time we've seen Dalinar hold a significant amount of Stormlight, so he may not have been able to heal his memory before now. Memory loss can be attributed to a physical cause (synaptic and neuronal degradation). It seems logical that it is something Stormlight can heal, and the Nightwatcher can damage by selectively severing synapses or whatever.

Definitely not saying this is what happened, just that I can find a reasonable explanation for it. It would be cool if it was a way into learning about the rest of the magic system, as @Shadowfax just said.

 

[Calderis]

@Salkara @Caesura

Because, as I've said in multiple threads already I see three possibilities. 

1. The wound is a spiritual severing of his connection to Evi. If this is the case, as with Kaladin's arm, healing a spiritual wound takes actual effort and would have to have been intentional. This is clearly not the case. 

2. It is a physical (neurological) alternation. If this is the case it should have already been healed. The first time Dalinar holds Stormlight intentionally after bonding the Stormfather, he thinks how it is nothing like the thrill, and how it is familiar and he then wonders how long he's been doing it. He's been holding Stormlight instinctually for longer than has been shown. If he had a wound that Stormlight would have healed, it should have been done already. 

3. The wound is Cognitive. And this seems mist likely. Every instance of a Cognitive effect on healing in the Cosmere is as a limitation. There has been nothing we've seen to fix a Cognitive problem. This is precisely why I expected the problem to be permanent. 

[Caesura]

@Calderis Fair enough. I think I remember seeing you say that now actually. I haven't read into many threads recently - exams are looming - so apologies if I missed some stuff 

[Head Crabs]

This was proposed already. I didnt bite then and i still dont now. Lots of people still seem to think of the boon/curse as being a trick or something cleverly worded would be able to trick her. 

 

My guess is that dalinar is healing neurological function with stormlight. It just took more than one tiny little chip the first time he invested. We have ZERO evidence or even foreshadowing that dalinar is even forgetting what he had for breakfast with navani yesterday. 

 

This axehound just wont hunt for me. 

[Daishi5]

12 hours ago, Calderis said:

Or 4) (and I like this one better than the stormlight one, because Stormlight healing him seems... Ridiculous) his memory loss had some condition attached to it which he's met and is coming back naturally, independent of anything to do with him being a Radiant. 

Or 5) Urithiru is located just north of the Valley. He's in close enough proximity to the Nightwatcher that she has, for some reason, decided to remove her gifts. 

We have no evidence for anything yet so these are just as plausible as the others. 

6) something to do with his being bonded in marriage by the Stormfather has affected him.  

Their oaths don't seem like they would have affected it, but I think swearing oaths in front of him, while partially in the cognitive realm (or whatever was happening in that scene) is a big event involving powerful investure.  It also happened between his last failure to hear Evi's name and the scene where he heard it, so it fits in the timeline.

[Bernem]

19 hours ago, Calderis said:

Or 4) (and I like this one better than the stormlight one, because Stormlight healing him seems... Ridiculous) his memory loss had some condition attached to it which he's met and is coming back naturally, independent of anything to do with him being a Radiant. 

 

7 hours ago, Daishi5 said:

6) something to do with his being bonded in marriage by the Stormfather has affected him.  

I like these two.

Perhaps he requested the Nightwatcher to "Remove Evi from my mind until I am strong enough to bear her loss." Now that he has bonded the Stormfather and has a loving companion, he would be able to deal with the grief.

Or maybe being bound to the SF has unbound his mind.

[lordofarda]

We still don't know what his boon and curse are. Forgetting Evi could be the boon, or it could be the curse. But what I think is that whatever the opposite of forgetting Evi is (boon/curse, curse/boon) is no longer valid for some reason, thus the forgetting Evi is no longer valid. Like the flip side of a coin no longer being so the coin itself is no longer being.

[Knotai]

I want to consult Occam's Razor and throw out something I haven't seen yet (although I haven't read many of the recent forum posts on this topic).

What if Dalinar's boon was to forget Evi, and his curse was to remember her again?

What if Dalinar did not include the quantifier "for eternity" in his boon, and the Nightwatcher decided to curse him by eventually bringing back painful memories of her once he had changed as a person?

[Wreith]

1 hour ago, Knotai said:

I want to consult Occam's Razor and throw out something I haven't seen yet (although I haven't read many of the recent forum posts on this topic).

What if Dalinar's boon was to forget Evi, and his curse was to remember her again?

What if Dalinar did not include the quantifier "for eternity" in his boon, and the Nightwatcher decided to curse him by eventually bringing back painful memories of her once he had changed as a person?

he claims to know both his curse and boon. I would have expected less surprise if he knew to expect this someday. 

[Darkness]

50 minutes ago, Wreith said:

he claims to know both his curse and boon. I would have expected less surprise if he knew to expect this someday. 

on that note, I'll be watching him closely to see if he does something to test if the other condition (non-Evi curse/boon) is still in effect or not. If he does something out of character, and then looks surprised or affirmed it may give a clue as to the nature of his curse/boon.

[Daishi5]

We need to remember that you can ask the nightwatcher for things, but she gives you boons and curses that she wants to, you don't necessarily get what you want.

If the nightwatcher is cultivation, or even strongly related to cultivation, then a lot of Dalinar's changes from who he was to who he is today may be due to her influence. Dalinar used to be pretty bloodthirtsty and a might-makes-right kind of guy.  What ever they are, the curse and boon probably helped separate him from his past belief in power as the source of legitimacy and helped him become a bondsmith.  

So here is a theory.  He went to the nightwatcher for help with Renarin.

His boon:  the nightwatcher directed a spren to bond with and guide Renarin.

His curse: the nightwatcher blocked whatever memories would get in the way of him becoming a Bondsmith.

 

It is important to note that in this theory, Cultivation is not necessarily being nice or kind to Dalinar by making guiding him to be a bondsmith, she is "growing" him into what she needs.

[Shards of Mist]

Dalinar's boon is for the memories of his wife to be taken away.  We already know this.  

This is from Dalinar talking to Navani in WOR.

Quote

How could Dalinar explain? How could he tell her that the loss of his wife had actually been his boon? How could he admit that he’d asked for the memories to be taken from him? That his curse was something else altogether?

So, that means his boon is gone.  It could be because of the way he asked and now being remarried nullified the need for it or it could be because of one of the many other theories out there.  The biggest thing is that we still don't know what his curse was and what it means that it might know be lifted also.

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, Shards of Mist said:

Dalinar's boon is for the memories of his wife to be taken away.  We already know this.  

This is from Dalinar talking to Navani in WOR.

So, that means his boon is gone.  It could be because of the way he asked and now being remarried nullified the need for it or it could be because of one of the many other theories out there.  The biggest thing is that we still don't know what his curse was and what it means that it might know be lifted also.

I've read WoR multiple times and I don't remember this chain of thought at all. Which chapter is this? 

Edit: yeah, that's not in the book. Dalinar had never told anyone about forgetting Evi prior to Navani in these preview chapters. 

The only time curse or boon is mentioned is him stating that he knows what both of his are, but he never says which the memory loss is. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Calderis

[Shards of Mist]

21 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I've read WoR multiple times and I don't remember this chain of thought at all. Which chapter is this? 

Edit: yeah, that's not in the book. Dalinar had never told anyone about forgetting Evi prior to Navani in these preview chapters. 

The only time curse or boon is mentioned is him stating that he knows what both of his are, but he never says which the memory loss is. 

You're right.  That was on some other post I'd read and saved that part.  My bad.  I thought I'd had it from an actual chapter.

[Lidolas]

I like the theory that Honor's Investiture has replaced Cultivation's Investiture.  

[+Wax]

I think I am leaning towards stormlight healing Dalinar’s memory.

At the end of WoR Dalinar asked about the dream he had and whether it was a vision.  And Stormfather says it wasn’t a vision but a simple dream.

I think that’s the start of Dalinar’s boon/curse being altered.

Edited October 14, 2017 by axcellence

[frozndevl]

And even if that quote isn't real, he could have asked for his memories to be removed and he could see that as his boon, but the Nightwatcher does things differently and considers that his curse and gives him a different boon.