Toaster Retribution Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) Okay, so what is the deal here? Has Mraize managed to manipulate Ialai? Is he using her in some way? Or is she using him? Is Ialai a Ghostblood? What is happening? Edited October 10, 2017 by Toaster Retribution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salkara Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 What if Ialai is Thaidakar? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, Salkara said: What if Ialai is Thaidakar? That is a nice crackpot. Wouldn't Gavilar have referred to Thaidakar as Ialai in that case though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) I think they're just links in each others spy networks. Trading information and favors. She's not a Ghostblood, but she's aware of them. I wonder what she gave Mraize for his help here? Edit: option 1. I posted an option 2 further in the thread. Edited October 10, 2017 by Calderis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Just now, Calderis said: I wonder what she gave Mraize for his help here? Direct access to a princedom should be worth something, or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Just now, Michael Portz said: Direct access to a princedom should be worth something, or? Until a new Highprince is chosen that's all well and good. Ialai can't guarantee that in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliverofnone Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 How many people know that Mraize is a Ghostblood do you think? They are not shy about tattooing their mark, but could Mraize be playing a role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Maybe Mraize proposed to marry her, to get the Princedom. Now that would be a twist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 She may not realize Mraize's significance. This could be another play by Mraize to demonstrate his usefulness to Shallan and try to convince her to work with the Ghostbloods. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbishop Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Of the relatively little we have seen of and about Ialai, not a single thing suggests she would make a good patsy. I think she is either using the Ghostbloods, has some arrangement with them, or is one of them herself. That arrangement may be lopsided and/or they are playing a longer game than she is, but a person like Ialai doesn't just happen to find herself in council with someone like Mraize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Portz Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Calderis said: Until a new Highprince is chosen that's all well and good. Ialai can't guarantee that in the future. The world is ending, how much future is there to worry about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeutroniumAlchemist Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 I don't think Ialai knows who Mrazie really is, to her he is probably just some highly regarded adviser with connections to the criminal world. Mrazie is probably getting more out of their relationship, with Ialai none the wiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) Alright, since we already have a thread here. I think, that the copy-cat murders are not something supernatural, but actually a personal vendetta by Ialai. With help of the Ghostbloods Ialai is pissed. And she seems to be in league with the Ghostbloods. This does not bode well. First of all, I think, that, due to Adolin's open hostility towards her husband, she already suspects him. She obviously suspects the Kholins and probably just wants to get back at Dalinar. So, she doesn't care if Adolin really is guilty. She just wants to make the Kholins suffer. Alas, she has no proof. But she doesn't need it. She just has to pressure Adolin into confessing. And even if Adolin wouldn't confess, serial killings certainly won't help maintaining order in Urithiru. It wouldn't be too far-fetched, that Ialai has some contacts in the secret societies. It kinda is her specialty. Working in the dark. Spying, assassinations etc. She simply asked the GBs for help. Maybe called in a favor. It would not be good, if Ialai would have kept killing random people in the same way her husband died. Do it once, yes, but after that wait for "natural" murders to occur (which are bound to happen in crisis situations) and copy them. Why? Simple, everyone knows, that Ialai Sadeas is a snake and capable of dishing out petty revenge. Keep killing people in the same manner, that her husband died and she would attract attention, regardless of being the grieving widow. But! Create "coincidences", create a mystery. And you can keep playing the grieving widow to complete your perfect alibi. Copy the first murder to send a reminder to the suspected killer (Adolin) and keep going by copying other "natural" occuring murders. Ialai knows Adolin. She knows which buttons she has to press to make him break - by making him responsible (in his mind) for the death of innocents. He's just a too noble soul. I think, that Ialai needing to be "convinced" for a meeting was just a stalling tactic. She needed to have something to show to Adolin, that she means business. So, she and Mraize wait for another murder to occur and copy it. It happens and they call the meeting, in which she simply tells Adolin: "Those copy-cat murders? That was us. Oh, and we'll keep going. Unless you confess." So, Adolin might be inclined to just out Ialai and say that she confessed the copy murders to him. But who would believe him? 1. She has no motive. 2. She's grieving. Pity can be a greaaaat alibi. Edited October 10, 2017 by SLNC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salkara Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said: That is a nice crackpot. Wouldn't Gavilar have referred to Thaidakar as Ialai in that case though? Unless he didn't know. I mean, do we know Mraize's real name? Edited October 10, 2017 by Salkara Past tense... Gavilar is no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Salkara said: Unless he didn't know. I mean, do we know Mraize's real name? Nope. Mraize is so cool a name that I hope we never do. It would be lame to learn that Mraize is in reality named Bob or something like that... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Mraize and Ialai sittin' in a tree! P-L-O-T-T-I-N-G! First comes spying, then comes blackmail, then comes Ialai pushing a revenge filled political agenda! I know it doesn't fit with all the extra syllables and it doesn't rhyme. Sue me. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govir Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said: Nope. Mraize is so cool a name that I hope we never do. It would be lame to learn that Mraize is in reality named Bob or something like that... Clearly Mraize is Ned. And survived being dropped from a cliff. Edited October 10, 2017 by Govir Ted -> Ned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari-no-sugata Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 I'm really curious what Mraize's goal is here. What's he hunting? Or is he only there because Ialai asked him to for some reason? Does he have any particular powers that would help determine something? Here's a crazy idea: Ialai is Iyatil. Random reminder that Iyatil wants revenge on Amaram, which suddenly feels rather odd here. Here's less crazy idea: Mraize has Oathbringer. Gah... just thinking about what could happen makes my mind explode. Even worse - while reading the chapter I noticed that we were getting close to the end and I had wondered if there'd be some cliffhanger and in an earlier post I had suggested Mraize might be contacting Shallan soon... and it never occurred to me that he might be there. Sanderson...!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Mraize is likely on top of Ialai. Its doubtful Ialai knows his full significance. It does however seem doubtful Mraize will take a full stance against the Kholins, at least not yet. He did offer for Shallan to be the KR and for Veil to be the GB, saying those things weren't necesarily opposites. Considering Shallan hasn't given an answer yet, I doubt Mraize would go against his words at the end of WoR, and force Shallan's two personas against each other. At the moment everyone knows if pressed Shallan will pick the Radiants. Of course, just because Mraize may not (yet) take a full stance against the Kholins and by extension Shallan, doesn't mean he can't apply a bit of pressure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, SLNC said: But nah, it gets even better. So, Veil used the GB symbol the night before. I wouldn't be surprised, that Mraize already knows this. And that she was asking for those murders... obviously on Adolin's behalf for everyone having knowledge about what happened to Vedekar Perel and having knowledge, that Adolin was appointed as an investigator. How could he know this? Well, Adolin openly asked Ialai for a meeting. She has to know and thus Mraize also knows. And since Mraize knows, that Veil actually is Shallan and Shallan is betrothed to Adolin, Veil/Shallan unwittingly revealed her true loyalty the night before. That she is loyal to the Kholins. Mraize has no need for her anymore, now knowing that she'll never be a true loyal Ghostblood... But he has her brothers. Which will make a wonderful additional lever on Adolin through his relationship with Shallan. First off, sorry for attacking your theories today. Its nothing personal But I really don´t agree with this quote. I don´t think Mraize would draw that conclusion this quickly. He hasn´t even talked to Shallan about Helaran and the goal of the Ghostbloods yet. And she is a KR, which means that she is valueable. Mraize will not want to lose her, and so he will tread carefully. It would be stupid of him to assume that she will never be a loyal Ghostblood, when she still has no idea about what the organization is trying to achieve. And we can probably call Mraize a lot of things, but stupid really isn´t one of them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormingTexan Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Most importantly what are we calling the new couple? MraiLai ? LalaIze? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said: But I really don´t agree with this quote. I don´t think Mraize would draw that conclusion this quickly. He hasn´t even talked to Shallan about Helaran and the goal of the Ghostbloods yet. And she is a KR, which means that she is valueable. Mraize will not want to lose her, and so he will tread carefully. It would be stupid of him to assume that she will never be a loyal Ghostblood, when she still has no idea about what the organization is trying to achieve. And we can probably call Mraize a lot of things, but stupid really isn´t one of them. Yeah, that would have worked, if she would have kept Veil as her sole Ghostblood persona. Now she has used it to help Adolin, which, combined with their betrothal, could set off some red flags for Mraize. Loyalty is incredibly important, when dealing in secret societies. Any sign of future disloyalty really lets her value for Mraize plummet - Radiant or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Ohh, here is another crackpot theory. Amaram made a play with Ialai for highprince. Mraize moved in to counter that, either openly or more subtly He just happened to be there, and Ialai asked him to stick around till after her meeting with Adolin I admit that the idea that these four met by accident when it was just meant to be Adolin and Ialai is hilarious . Albeit unlikely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Just now, SLNC said: Yeah, that would have worked, if she would have kept Veil as her sole Ghostblood persona. Now she has used it to help Adolin, which, combined with their betrothal, could set off some red flags for Mraize. Loyalty is incredibly important, when dealing in secret societies. Any sign of future disloyalty really lets her value for Mraize plummet - Radiant or not. I doubt he will take any drastic actions against her until he has gotten time to show her why she should be loyal. He knows that she has little reason now, and that she dislikes them because of the attempted murder of Jasnah. He saved her brothers to show his good will, and he offered her truth and information. I doubt he will react to this show of disloyalty, since there is no real reason for her to be loyal yet, and he knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said: He saved her brothers to show his good will Yeah, right. Out of sheer goodwill. Mraize. It is a device for leverage. Nothing else. It all depends on if he plays that card yet. Or if he decides to just give the card to Ialai for another favor or two. Edited October 10, 2017 by SLNC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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