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[OB] Oathbringer chapters 13-15


Mestiv

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"NO MATING" is one of the funniest things that Sanderson has ever written. 

Shallan's chapters are good to see, if not super healthy for her mentally. The Kaladin scene kinda threw off the pacing for me. Sure there is a lot of really good information there, but placing it in between the two Shallan chapters made me feel as if there should be a time gap between them. 

Also, the epigraphs are not super helpful this week. Cases are still building right now, but my money is on either Jasnah or Taravangian being the author. Jasnah for obvious reasons, and Taravangian because of the heretic reference and the comments about "the women who read this" in conjunction with the "brutal truth" epigraph from this week. I honestly think that it could be either though. It's just too early to tell

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Her room was ornamented by bright circular patterns of strata on the walls. The stone was smooth to the touch, and a knife couldn’t scratch it.

We have layers, corkscrews, and now circles, all in the same rock. This does not sound like a natural rock formation, and I'm leaning pretty heavily that these patterns in the rock were created when Urithiru was formed. Also it says a knife couldn't scratch it and it's smooth, almost reminds of polished granite. 

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She’d only scraped Pattern on the ceiling two or three times; fortunately, most of the rooms in Urithiru had high ceilings.

Shallan briefly mentions her sword hitting the ceiling. I'm assuming we can't take this to confirm that the blade can cut through the rock? It doesn't say it explicitly, but you would think shallan would have noted how odd it would be if her sword didn't cut through the rock and just scraped against it. 

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2 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

It seems to me that many readers are quite quick to criticise Shallan or what she's doing - eg assuming her use of multiple personas is all going to go horribly wrong right from the start.

I think it because I feel like, that she already is losing her grip on her identity. Managing multiple identities doesn't help it. And let's face it: her carefree demeanor is just a facade. She is mentally unstable.

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2 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

like with Shai

I'd love to see Shai and Shallan discuss their work.

Shai: "I spend years researching myself in deep introspection to find ways to change myself fundamentally to achieve my goals, and even then, it only lasts 24 hours."

Shallan: "I think of the qualities I want to emulate, draw myself blended with the person who embodies those traits, inhale a bit of light, and exhale my new form.  20 minutes tops, and it lasts as long as I have light."

Shai: "..."

Shallan: "But I can't use any skills I haven't learned yet.  But I'm a fast learner, and if all else fails, Pattern is pretty good at picking up my slack."

Shai: "I hate you."

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3 minutes ago, Spicker said:

Shallan briefly mentions her sword hitting the ceiling. I'm assuming we can't take this to confirm that the blade can cut through the rock? It doesn't say it explicitly, but you would think shallan would have noted how odd it would be if her sword didn't cut through the rock and just scraped against it. 

She deliberately made the blade blunt. In which case it doesn't cut... it seems.

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25 minutes ago, heridfel said:

There's one bit of dialogue which points towards a stumbling block that Adolin would face if he meant to re-awaken his Blade: "I’ve always kind of known. Not that it was alive. That’s silly. Swords aren’t alive."

Maybe he is flexible enough, mentally, to change that way of thinking. But it's pretty clear to me that as long as he does not think of his sword as alive, it won't be.

By the way, the modern term for multiple personality disorder is dissociative identity disorder. Shallan's version may or may not be possession-form (where a personality can "take over") - it's harder to tell if other people can notice the change in behavior when she can literally change her appearance to match the personality.

Yeah I'm getting mixed signals on the Adolin blade thing. There is what you posted, but then just a few paragraphs down there is this:

" His blue eyes were alight, and Shallan loved seeing that glow from him. Almost like Stormlight. She knew that passion—she’d felt what it was to be alive with interest, to be consumed by something so fully that you lost yourself in the wonder of it. For her it was art, but watching him, she thought that the two of them weren’t so different. " As well as various other little tidbits sprinkled throughout.

I leaning towards Adolin getting past the silliness of swords being alive.

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I love the Kaladin scene with the parshmen, and am relieved to see scenes that contradict the simplistic notion of entire people that were so-far promoted as "the evil voidbringers". It makes sense that the parshendi are, in fact, just people. I think there's a good argument to be made for the final battle lines in SA having humans and parshendi/parshmen on both sides, rather than being based purely or largely on race. 

That idea even jives a little with the info gleaned by sharp-eyed folk over on this thread, where the back of the Oathbringer advanced copies says something along the lines of, "This war is not, and never was, what they though it to be."

Edited by treblkickd
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11 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

She deliberately made the blade blunt. In which case it doesn't cut... it seems.

Now i'm reminded, how did she even know he could do that ? i doubt she would have discussed the extent of his abilities in bladeform seeing how unwilling she is to confront that side of him. Probably just a matter of shape anyway, nevermind.

 

Edited by Darvys
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35 minutes ago, sooyangi said:

Not as exciting as the other chapters but still really good! I appreciated the distinction between Voidbringers versus Listeners. I also feel like Kaladin will relate to them the most, considering he was a slave as well. I also guess that depends on how much they remember their time with the Alethi. Maybe a lot considering they speak Alethi really well? 

Also how different are they from their counterpoints? I thought Listeners/Parshendi didn't need words to communicate with one another? Yet this group was communicating with each other verbally despite the fact that they were amongst themselves.

Also the yellow spren was really interesting! I thought for spren to be intelligent they needed a bond? I'm also excited for spren interaction. We didnt really get that in the last two books!

And as for the Shallan chapters, I'm kind of concerned for her mental well being :/ 

I haven't had the chance to read the other comments yet so I'm going to do that now!!

Parshendi Still communicated verbally they would just attune the rhythms to what they were feeling, essentially a beat all parshendi share. Whats interesting to me, and pointed out in an earlier post( ill edit with the credit ) is that there isnt any mention of the awakened parshmen speaking with any cadence to their voices .....

 

Credit Goes to Calderis for that observation

Edited by PunSpren
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31 minutes ago, sooyangi said:

Not as exciting as the other chapters but still really good! I appreciated the distinction between Voidbringers versus Listeners. I also feel like Kaladin will relate to them the most, considering he was a slave as well. I also guess that depends on how much they remember their time with the Alethi. Maybe a lot considering they speak Alethi really well? 

Also how different are they from their counterpoints? I thought Listeners/Parshendi didn't need words to communicate with one another? Yet this group was communicating with each other verbally despite the fact that they were amongst themselves.

Also the yellow spren was really interesting! I thought for spren to be intelligent they needed a bond? I'm also excited for spren interaction. We didnt really get that in the last two books!

And as for the Shallan chapters, I'm kind of concerned for her mental well being :/ 

I haven't had the chance to read the other comments yet so I'm going to do that now!!

Luckily the Bridge 4 tattoo didn't stick at the beginning of WoR. This might allow him to forge a relationship with these Listeners far more easily.

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1 minute ago, Darvys said:

Now i'm reminded, how did she even know he could do that ? i doubt she would have discussed the extent of his abilities in bladeform seeing how unwilling she his to confront that side of him.

In WoR while she was cutting out the cubby, the blade shrank when she thought about it. She simply said thank you and moved on at the time but I doubt she would forget. There's also other ways - eg talking with Kaladin or Renarin. Pattern could have mentioned it in passing.

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For now she did what she could with some blankets, a single stool, and—blessedly—a hand mirror. She’d hung it on the wall, tied to a stone knob that she assumed was for hanging pictures

I really want this knob to be a cleverly-disguised switch or latch. Urithiru must have secret passages.

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11 minutes ago, Ramza1890 said:

Luckily the Bridge 4 tattoo didn't stick at the beginning of WoR. This might allow him to forge a relationship with these Listeners far more easily.

And lucky that he still has the slave brand, so the newly freed slaves will identify with him.

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The begining of Shallan's panic attack and the fact she is spreading herself thin over so many personas worries me. It might sound wierd, but it reminded me of what Voldemort was doing, spliting his soul. I think part of her next truths will have to do with accepting who she really is. 

Also it feels a bit like the calm before the storm with Adolin and Shallan. I enjoyed their interactions, but I felt everything was screaming that something bad is going to happen :wacko: Or maybe they just had some nice moments and I am reading too much into it. 

Pattern is hands down my favourite character :( He's just so funny and precious and willing to die for Shallan that it worries me  what is going to happen with him. 

Pattern and Syl sound like they would be really good study partners, as they are interested in the same topics :D

 

Edited by mariapapadia
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25 minutes ago, Sliverofnone said:

I don't think anyone mentioned it yet, but it looks like the reason that Lightweavers speak truths is because of all the people and lies they can become. It strengthens the bond with their spren and keeps their 'self' in tact, while simultaneously reaching a level of self awareness. No matter who Shallan becomes, she can't shove aside her truths. @Stark I agree that if she rejects her truths, she will break her oaths and kill pattern.  

I think this is a great point.

The stronger and more stable your sense of self the safer it would be to temporarily step into another persona, for example. It should also make the Lightweavers particularly resistant to mental attacks from Odium's side.

Various mental tricks are hardly a new thing (eg the Flame and the Void) and neither are magically enhanced mental tricks. We've already seen Shallan's enhanced memory. When we see people flying using magic it's considered safe but anyone doing anything that affects their own mind is considered inherently unsafe it seems - is that really the case? This is not to say that it's risk free of course, but then again neither is learning to fly risk free. So far, Shallan seems fully in control of her personas - the day she wakes up in a different persona I'll definitely worry a lot though.

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50 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Wow, she really can transform, even herself. Shalladin may be dead but I smell the Radiadin ship sailing! Kaladiant? Add that to Mrail (Veize?) and looks like Shallan Leeds will be a playa!

Now I'm seeing shallan with a half-dozen lovers  trying to explain to all of them that each one of them is a necessary part of maintaining her split personality that she absolutely need to get some things done, and that she actually loves each one of them, when she is in the right persona. And then dalinar will pass nearby, and shallan will be able to project her strange mind over the others, and they will all accept to be lovers each to one of her personalities.

50 minutes ago, yulerule said:

I can accept red and black being "evil" colors, but gold? Not so much. Yay my cultural bias is showing.

Quoting from chapter 1

"A golden light, brilliant yet terrible. Standing before it, a dark figure in black Shardplate. The figure had nine shadows, each spreading out in a different direction, and its eyes glowed a brilliant red. "

Yelllow not being an evil color seems the same as red not being a color for marriage

31 minutes ago, AluminumGnat said:

 

Also, the epigraphs are not super helpful this week. Cases are still building right now, but my money is on either Jasnah or Taravangian being the author. Jasnah for obvious reasons, and Taravangian because of the heretic reference and the comments about "the women who read this" in conjunction with the "brutal truth" epigraph from this week. I honestly think that it could be either though. It's just too early to tell

I hadn't considered taravangian as pssible author. He does sort of fit, but nobody calls him an heretic yet.

16 minutes ago, Agent34 said:

Definite confirmation that calculus is an evil thing. These threads certainly seem to drain reps.... they must be evil too.

Well, many inappropriate things are discussed in calculus. Like division by zero, for example.

And damnit, I also run out of reputation.

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I also want to see Shallan interact with some listeners in her various guises.  How will they interpret her?  A human who has forms?  Veil is her subterfugeform, Radiant is her warform, Shallan is her artform?

 

That could be a fascinating discussion, and I think the listeners, who change forms when they need, will be best suited to spotting the different Shallans who exist.

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Okay. I'm finally free to post my reactions. 

On the surface, it felt like a lot less happened in these 3 chapters than last week's. However, we did still get a lot of interesting tidbits, which I'm sure others have already mentioned. In no particular order,

  • That yellow spren is obviously able to talk and think, and somehow sensed Kaladin, but why is it hanging around and protecting the listeners? I wouldn't think a voidspren would let them just play cards, it'd have more evil intentions. 
  • Pattern is certainly an enthusiastic chaperone, though maybe not so much of an effective one. As funny as the "no mating" thing is, it also shows us that he's learning more about humans and their customs, able to figure out what Shallan meant by "innapropriate", even though it took him a little while
  • Kaladin's chapter was too short. And cliffhangered us. WHY ISN'T IT NOVEMBER YET STORM IT
  • The little tidbits from the in-world Oathbringer are pretty vague, though they seem to be suggesting Dalinar's the author. Idk.
  • Shallan's terrible, terrible coping mechanisms definitely had something not-natural to them. She called Adolin "Brightlord Kholin" completely instinctively, which is very unlike her. Though it is like "Brightness Radiant".
  • I'm glad we got a lot of Adolin this time. The whole 'walking in on Shallan' bit was pretty entertaining. 
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