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[OB] Oathbringer chapters 13-15


Mestiv

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2 minutes ago, Elena said:

Gotta love Shallan making an effort to appreciate Adolin trying to be 'broad-minded', all the while being slightly put-off she's being compared to peasants.

>Being happy that your romantic interest is being broad-minded

>Be narrow-minded at the same time

#justshallanthings

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5 minutes ago, Agent34 said:

She's the one thinking of darkeyes as peasants.

Yep, this is why is ironic that she's so concerned with Adolin making an effort to overcome his bias. Shallan has a huge Shallan-shaped blindspot, but mostly when she's in Shallan mode and isn't busy being four other people :)

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1 minute ago, king of nowhere said:

that  spren is definitely of oodium, btw; we establlished in the first dalinar's chapter that golden yellow is odium's color.

So convenient to have shards color-coded

Putting lots of faith into colour connections isn't advisable.

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There's one bit of dialogue which points towards a stumbling block that Adolin would face if he meant to re-awaken his Blade: "I’ve always kind of known. Not that it was alive. That’s silly. Swords aren’t alive."

Maybe he is flexible enough, mentally, to change that way of thinking. But it's pretty clear to me that as long as he does not think of his sword as alive, it won't be.

By the way, the modern term for multiple personality disorder is dissociative identity disorder. Shallan's version may or may not be possession-form (where a personality can "take over") - it's harder to tell if other people can notice the change in behavior when she can literally change her appearance to match the personality.

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Well well well. Those chapters were nowhere near as intriguing to me as the previous ones. Aside from the minor voidbringer reveals, mostly character development. But oh, the characters!

So here goes

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The knock was feminine

After 2600 pages you've finally won me with your banter Shally :)

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my name is Adolin Kholin, I was born under the sign of the nine

OH REALLY MR CHAMPION

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aren’t you the one who spends his afternoons searching through fashion folios?

Oh Shallan, I always loved you. Don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. 

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Ash’s eyes… he actually thought she was pretty. This wonderful, princely man actually liked being with her. She’d traveled to the ancient city of the Knights Radiant, but compared to Adolin’s affection, all the sights of Urithiru were dun spheres.

He liked her. And he brought her food.

Do not find a way to screw this up, Shallan thought to herself 

RIP Shalladin.

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Palona said you hadn’t eaten,” he said, “and then she found out I’d skipped dinner. So, uh…”

“So she sent you with a lot,” Shallan said, inspecting the platter piled high with dishes, flatbreads, and shellfood.

“Yeah,” Adolin said, standing and scratching at his head. “I think it’s a Herdazian thing.”

Did...we know she was Herdazian?

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The succulent tastes overwhelmed her mouth, bringing on that delightful sharp pain and mixing of flavor that you only got from the first bite of something sweet. 

What the storms Shallan. You get pain from sweet food? You really are a masochist young lady.

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“Inappropriate?” Pattern said. “Such as… dividing by zero?”

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Oh!” Pattern said suddenly, bursting up from the bowl to hover in the air. “You were talking about mating! I’m to make sure you don’t accidentally mate, as mating is forbidden by human society until you have first performed appropriate rituals! Yes, yes. Mmmm. Dictates of custom require following certain patterns before you copulate. I’ve been studying this!”

“Oh, Stormfather,” Shallan said, covering her eyes with her freehand. A few shamespren even peeked in for a glimpse before vanishing. Twice in one week.

“Very well, you two,” Pattern said. “No mating. NO MATING.” He hummed to himself, as if pleased, then sank down onto a plate.

Pattern, I love you. I love you during the Weeping. I love you during moonrise. I'll love you until the world crumbles.

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May Aladar sent teams to question Vedekar Perel’s family and friends

Get out of my chapters you red herring.

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They looked different from what he expected. For one thing, their skin was a diff rent shade—many parshmen here in Alethkar had marbled white and red skin, rather than the deep red on black like Rlain from Bridge Four. They didn’t wear warform, though neither did they wear some terrible, powerful form. Though they were squat and bulky, their only carapace ran along the sides of their forearms and jutted out at their temples, leaving them with full heads of hair.

They still wore their simple slave smocks, tied at the waists with strings. No red eyes

...

They spoke like Alethi. Not a hint of an accent. 

...

The male began gathering up the cards. “I should know, Khen. How many times did I watch them play? Standing there with my tray of drinks. I should be an expert at this, shouldn’t I?”

 So that settles it, the Everstorm changed them all back to regular Listener form, not all voidform, and they remember being parshmen. They...remember. oh those poor, poor people. 

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Alarm!” a sudden, shrill voice called. “Alarm! You fools!”

Something zipped through the air, a glowing yellow ribbon, a streak of light in the dim afternoon shade.

“He’s there,” the shrill voice said. “You’re being watched! Beneath those shrubs!”

Ummmmmmm. What? A spren? A Nahel spren with the Voidbringers? An unevil-sounding voidspren? What is this?

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Thank you, Shallan thought, for ranking all women as something equivalent to peasants.

Oh what a deliciously ironic line. The feminist racist. 

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“It’s because you hate me,” Pattern said softly. “I can die, Shallan. I can go. They will send you another to bond.”

Oh Pattern, you beautiful, sad little voidbringer. Though good to know they would just send another. That could be handy...

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Shallan outlined her own face with these ideals, creating a harder version of it. Could… could she be this woman?

...

When Adolin returned to the room a moment later, he found a poised, calm woman who wasn’t quite Shallan Davar. Brightness Radiant is her name, she thought. She will go only by title.

...

“Hey,” Adolin said. “That’s not bad.”

 

“Shallan did spend quite a lot of time drawing you all.”

...

“Brightlord Kholin?”

 

Too formal. Right. That was how Radiant would act, of course—but she could allow herself some familiarity. Jasnah had done that.

...

She let herself be Shallan in some of the moments, but whenever the pain of holding the sword started to spike—whenever she really thought about what she was doing—she was able to become Radiant and avoid it.

Wow, she really can transform, even herself. Shalladin may be dead but I smell the Radiadin ship sailing! Kaladiant? Add that to Mrail (Veize?) and looks like Shallan Leeds will be a playa!

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I surrender

Kaladin, you're a beautiful man. 

HA! Dividing by zero. DIVIDING BY ZERO.  :wub:

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Wacky theory, the spren is described as a ribbon of light.  Syl is often described as a ribbon of light.  I think the tent at the center has another proto radiant in it leading the Parshmen.  

There have to be several orders that would be on the Parshmen's side if they found out they were thinking people who had been enslaved.  I don't think it is a Parshendi-Proto-Radiant because WoR epigraphs say the Spren can't get from Parshendi what they get from humans, and I really expect Eshonai to be the first Parshendi radiant.  It could create really interesting conflict for Kaladin if another proto-radiant is leading them and insistent that the Parshmen deserve justice and restitution for what they have suffered.

Kaladin torn between the justice of demanding to be recognized as free thinking people, vs the people's fear, the need for stability in the face of the crisis, and the fear that Odium could seize control of Parshendi at any time.  How can Kaladin protect people who might become monsters against their own will?

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Not as exciting as the other chapters but still really good! I appreciated the distinction between Voidbringers versus Listeners. I also feel like Kaladin will relate to them the most, considering he was a slave as well. I also guess that depends on how much they remember their time with the Alethi. Maybe a lot considering they speak Alethi really well? 

Also how different are they from their counterpoints? I thought Listeners/Parshendi didn't need words to communicate with one another? Yet this group was communicating with each other verbally despite the fact that they were amongst themselves.

Also the yellow spren was really interesting! I thought for spren to be intelligent they needed a bond? I'm also excited for spren interaction. We didnt really get that in the last two books!

And as for the Shallan chapters, I'm kind of concerned for her mental well being :/ 

I haven't had the chance to read the other comments yet so I'm going to do that now!!

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7 minutes ago, Extesian said:

RIP Shalladin.

Yeah, no.

My reaction to the promise of not storming this up was: Oh boy, I can't wait for them to storm this up. They jinxed it. :ph34r:

Honestly, the big elephant, Shallan having killed both of her parents, is still in the room. Shallan constantly changing personalities is no solution and far from a healthy base for a relationship.

That being said, @maxal is going to loooove these chapters. (Forgive me, maxal. I couldn't resist.)

Edited by SLNC
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Pattern as chaperone was adorable

The entire Shallan and Adolin scene was really sweet. Their relationship is expanding and becoming more complex. They both still have deep secrets, but they are opening up

Seems that Shardblade training for women will happen fast with no quibbles :P 

Dang, Kaladin empathizing with parshendi already. And really heavily. I expected this to happen but later on the book and not so strongly. 

Also seems there was a voidbinding spren keeping control of the group. But the parshendi definitely seemed parshendi, no void spren inside them.

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1 hour ago, Daishi5 said:

OMG, I want a scene where Shallan and Adolin are in some form of meeting, they hold hands or make some other mostly innocent sweet gesture, followed by Pattern yelling NO MATING in the middle of the meeting.

In front of Kal.

To which Syl replies, out loud of course, 'See Kaladin, remember that the next time you want to complain about me.'

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5 minutes ago, sooyangi said:

Not as exciting as the other chapters but still really good! I appreciated the distinction between Voidbringers versus Listeners. I also feel like Kaladin will relate to them the most, considering he was a slave as well. I also guess that depends on how much they remember their time with the Alethi. Maybe a lot considering they speak Alethi really well? 

Also how different are they from their counterpoints? I thought Listeners/Parshendi didn't need words to communicate with one another? Yet this group was communicating with each other verbally despite the fact that they were amongst themselves.

The listeners all communicated verbally with each other... they just have acces to the shared rythms, which allowed them to coordinate actions more easily...

Also I'm not sure we can call this group of former parshmen 'listeners' since Kal didn't mention any 'sing-song' quality to their speech, they may not have access to the rythms.

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7 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Dang, Kaladin empathizing with parshendi already. And really heavily. I expected this to happen but later on the book and not so strongly. 

He was headed down this path when he gave Shen - before he learned he had a name of his own, Rlain - a spear. Which in turn was long after Kaladin and the rest of Bridge Four insisted he get the Bridge Four tattoo, when the tattooist objected to doing so for a parshman.

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38 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I think my biggest take-aways from these chapters is what @Pagerunneralready mentioned about the similarities between what Shallan is doing, and forging (I specifically thought of Shai during the creation of "Brightness Radiant")

Given how the magic systems in the Cosmere work, it might be more of a surprise for there to be no relationship between the two, but this is early days of course.

It seems to me that many readers are quite quick to criticise Shallan or what she's doing - eg assuming her use of multiple personas is all going to go horribly wrong right from the start. It would be rather ironic if this is Shallan simply exploring a magic system she doesn't yet understand and this all turns out to be necessary long term for her to achieve her goals, like with Shai. Of course, it could go wrong but then there's nothing inherently safe about any magic systems.

Edited by kari-no-sugata
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