What is Darkness Doing Now?

[Faceless Mist-Wraith]

At the end of Edgedancer, Darkness/Nale finally realized that the Desolation had arrived. Upon realizing this he flew off, and we don't hear from him again. So what is he doing? What will he do with the knowledge that the Desolation has returned? 

This is especially important considering he has been training a small troupe of Skybreakers to kill off Radiants. Will these Skybreakers end up joining Dalinar and the gang in Oathbringer? It certainly doesn't make sense that Nale would tell them to keep hunting proto-Radiants, but would they listen if he suddenly told them to stop?

Thoughts?

[Calderis]

We don't know yet. But his change of heart has to have major story implications. It's the reason Edgedancer was written. 

[Aleksiel]

Why wouldn't the Skybreakers listen to him and stop hunting proto-Radiants? He was the reason they were doing it in the first place. I think Nale will change the nature of the hunt - they'll track surgebinders to get them on board. Other than that, it's hard for me to predict. Although I suspect Nale will go have a word with Ishar... 

[kmosiman]

I agree with that prediction. Nale's reason for killing Radiants was to prevent the Desolation based on Ishar's prediction. Now that Ishar is wrong he will need new orders. 

I can see some parallels between him and Szeth. Szeth doesn't do much because he isn't sure about Nale's sanity or his own, but he has abandoned his Thruthless status because it was proven wrong. Nale has been shown that his orders were wrong as well. 

[Erunion]

Likely he will be ordering his skybreakers to stand down, and then going and confronting Ishar. Which could be interesting. 

[Humpty]

yeah i agree he will probably go hunt down Ishar and beat the hell out of him.

[Toaster Retribution]

He will most likely go with Szeth to Shinovar, or decide to go punish Ishar. I think Nale might start to be a good guy now. 

[Wreith]

Maybe he's trained his Skybreakers so well that they will be a threat to him.

After all, he's been leading them to kill innocents on a false premise for some time now. Perhaps they'll attempt to pass judgement on him.

And this would be the second, albeit brief, time Szeth has been given a purpose only to have it turn out wrong.

[+Wax]

There were a few hints.

In the postscript Brandon mentioned that when Nale is next seen in the following book, his aims and goals would have changed as sn individual.

So, clearly he wouldn’t be hunting proto radiants.

What did radiants do in the past?  Get people ready.  First step, start at Shinovar to get honorblades out to each Herald. Maybe tell Ishar, but that doesn’t seem intuitive for whatever reason as the first step.

 

[thejopen27]

On 9/27/2017 at 9:31 PM, kmosiman said:

Now that Ishar is wrong he will need new orders. 

Is Ishar wrong? Or was he lying?

[kmosiman]

I would guess that he was wrong and not lying. We don't know how the dessolation was unleashed exactly. The new Radiants didn't seem to cause it (there may be some possibility of a butterfly effect situation). 

Ishar's orders may have actually made sense as long as the Desolation could have been prevented. Now that it is here, killing all of the best fighters isn't the best idea.

[thejopen27]

3 hours ago, kmosiman said:

I would guess that he was wrong and not lying. We don't know how the dessolation was unleashed exactly. The new Radiants didn't seem to cause it (there may be some possibility of a butterfly effect situation). 

Ishar's orders may have actually made sense as long as the Desolation could have been prevented. Now that it is here, killing all of the best fighters isn't the best idea.

Obviously they are fools The Desolation needs no usher It can and will sit where it wishes and the signs are obvious that the spren anticipate it doing so soon The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia

Ishar is the Herald who know the most about how it all works. All the heralds are going mad to some degree, degrading mentally. Shallash is destroying painting and statues of herself, Kelek was paranoid and jumpy in Jasnah's prologue, Nale is killing Radiants and is an empty emotionless wreck. Jesrien is possibly mad. I think, Ishar is either mad, corrupted, or willingly, intentionally working for Odium.

[WhiteLeeopard]

On 6/10/2017 at 10:00 PM, axcellence said:

 

What did radiants do in the past?  Get people ready.  First step, start at Shinovar to get honorblades out to each Herald. Maybe tell Ishar, but that doesn’t seem intuitive for whatever reason as the first step.

 

I am not convinced whenever people give the theory that the Heralds will return to do their duty. Why should they?

1. They are bonkers

2. They walked away knowing perfectly well what their actions entailed

3. They spent millenia fighting an endless war until they were too broken to keep fighting. They are at least as broken now as they were then.

4. If they take up their Honorblades again there may be a chance of reviving the Oathpact, and having to endure again the eternal fight, die, torture, fight cycle again. Which is what they walked away from in the first place. Once again, why should they

Granted, it does seem some Heralds will reappear in some form or another. But I really do not believe that they will return to perform the same role as they once did. Even if a few do play a bastardized role of their original purpose I somehow doubt they all will. 

The heralds just have too much baggage. Both realmatic and psychological. You take the most honorable people you can find on our world and try to make them go through a cycle like the heralds and you'd likely be lucky if they didn't all become psycopaths. Add in whatever Cosmere related thing is going on with them and Roshar is screwed when it comes to Heralds been useful. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard
Spelling

[+Wax]

8 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I am not convinced whenever people give the theory that the Heralds will return to do their duty. Why should they?

1. They are bonkers

2. They walked away knowing perfectly well what their actions entailed

3. They spent millenia fighting an endless war until they were too broken to keep fighting. They are at least as broken now as they were then.

4. If they take up their Honorblades again there may be a chance of reviving the Oathpact, and having to endure again the eternal fight, die, torture, fight cycle again. Which is what they walked away from in the first place. Once again, why should they

Granted, it does seem some Heralds will reappear in some form or another. But I really do not believe that they will return to perform the same role as they once did. Even if a few do play a bastardized role of their original purpose I somehow doubt they all will. 

The heralds just have too much baggage. Both realmatic and psychological. You take the most honorable people you can find on our world and try to make them go through a cycle like the heralds and you'd likely be lucky if they didn't all become psycopaths. Add in whatever Cosmere related thing is going on with them and Roshar is screwed when it comes to Heralds been useful. 

Nale did want to go to Shinovar.  Something emerged in him at the end of Edgedancer. So, he might do something.  Least likely to break oathpact, yet he did.  So, he should definitely be doing something Heraldic.

[WhiteLeeopard]

2 minutes ago, axcellence said:

Nale did want to go to Shinovar.  Something emerged in him at the end of Edgedancer. So, he might do something.  Least likely to break oathpact, yet he did.  So, he should definitely be doing something Heraldic.

I agree Nale is at the top of my list of Heralds that I see doing something sort of Heraldic, albeit not at the scale as before. Followed by Shallash. But I really don't expect that to happen among all the Heralds. 

I also kind of feel Shinovar is Szeth's area, and Szeth may need some alone time with Nightblood to figure out how to bond him and to advance with Nightblood. I think we all are curious as to how that will happen . But I guess Nale could go with Szeth part of the way.

Edited October 9, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Calderis]

4 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

4. If they take up their Honorblades again there may be a chance of reviving the Oathpact, and having to endure again the eternal fight, die, torture, fight cycle again. Which is what they walked away from in the first place. Once again, why should they

I don't think the Oathpact ever truly ended. I think if any of the Heralds die, they'll be pulled right back into it. 

I also think they know it subconsciously. 

[WhiteLeeopard]

56 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I don't think the Oathpact ever truly ended. I think if any of the Heralds die, they'll be pulled right back into it. 

I also think they know it subconsciously. 

Thats...quite likely. But between running around doing their heraldic duties (which has a high probability of death) and lounging in a bar (low probability of death) why go with option one if they do not under any circumstances want to return to Braize?

[Calderis]

6 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Thats...quite likely. But between running around doing their heraldic duties (which has a high probability of death) and lounging in a bar (low probability of death) why go with option one if they do not under any circumstances want to return to Braize?

I agree. A few of them will probably look at what's happening and decide they were wrong and have to act. 

The majority though, fled for a reason. They'll keep running. 

[Nathrangking]

It would be interesting if he proves to be the first to reaffirm his commitment to an officially reconstituted order of skybreakers in Urithiru! If that does happen then a coalition of the Blackthorn beating some sense into the other heralds is not an impossible outcome. I would love to see that.

[WhiteLeeopard]

37 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I agree. A few of them will probably look at what's happening and decide they were wrong and have to act. 

The majority though, fled for a reason. They'll keep running. 

The saddest thing is that I can't really blame the Heralds for that choice.

Duty can lead people to do impressive sacrifices. But hope is the last thing that is lost, and without hope or any sense of achievement sacrifice is ultimately too unpalatable to keep doing it. Hope is the first thing the Heralds lost, and the only thing they gained after each Desolation was time. There was no end, there was no win, just delay after delay. As we briefly saw in the Wheel of Time, there comes a time when no reward and no sense of achievement, means either giving up or turning to the Dark Side. If anything, the fact that the Heralds just walked away instead of just turning to Odium out of resentment for Honor shows they were truly impressive men and women. (Of course this last is not certain).

17 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

It would be interesting if he proves to be the first to reaffirm his commitment to an officially reconstituted order of skybreakers in Urithiru! If that does happen then a coalition of the Blackthorn beating some sense into the other heralds is not an impossible outcome. I would love to see that.

I suspect even Dalinar will be a bit overawed by the Heralds at first. And I can still see some Heralds refusing to fight no matter what. But maybe some can be brought back partly into the fold.

Edited October 9, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Nathrangking]

4 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I suspect even Dalinar will be a bit overawed by the Heralds at first. And I can still see some Heralds refusing to fight no matter what. But maybe some can be brought back partly into the fold.

The man who bound the very force of the storms that ravage the world will not easily cow. The Heralds may be impressive, but if he has Nale on his side that will make a differemce. Perhaps Taln (if that is in fact who the mad man is) recovers and comes back into the fold then you have got two heralds and the blackthorn that should make quite the impression even on half mad heralds.

[Calderis]

@WhiteLeeopard @Nathrangking

I feel like the moment Dalinar meets a Herald, the Stormfather is both going to confirm their identity, and condemn them as oathbreakers. 

I think the Heralds are going to be instantly tarnished in Dalinar's mind by their walking away from the Oathpact. 

[Faceless Mist-Wraith]

The main reason why I was unsure if the Skybreakers would listen to Nale is because he has spent a great deal of time telling them that they must kill surge binders, and has likely been telling them that it is both justified and necessary. To turn around and suddenly say "Oops. My bad, forget everything I've said for the past number of years", I wouldn't find it hard to believe that some of them wouldn't go along. They might think he has been tricked or corrupted.

Either way, I was curious what level of impact a newly realized Herald could have on the upcoming story.

[joesleepsalot]

On 10/9/2017 at 1:58 PM, Nathrangking said:

It would be interesting if he proves to be the first to reaffirm his commitment to an officially reconstituted order of skybreakers in Urithiru! If that does happen then a coalition of the Blackthorn beating some sense into the other heralds is not an impossible outcome. I would love to see that.

Perhaps that is REALLY what "unite them" means when Dalinar hears it. The assumption is that it applies to nations but perhaps it applies to the Heralds. Also, I think we may see some excess amounts of involvement from other parts of the cosmere. The Heralds and all that won't be in a vacuum.... Jasnah knows something big, and we also have Hoid etc who are going to be very invested in what happens on Roashar (as well as others, especially from Scadrial). It's no accident that thestart to the entire series focused on the Heralds..... and that we've been given glimpses of them throughout the books so far. It's not like they're gonna sit out the fight, especially since the fight's end state is the eradication of humanity. Mad or not, they know fully well that they'll die if they run. I predict Jasnah, Hoid, or Kelsier will somehow get involved and collude with Dalinar and/or the Heralds. The dirty laundry of their betrayal must be addressed, but the situation at hand will have to be addressed as well. The nature of the desolation will require all parties to move on. And Jasnah will know something about the bigger picture.... shards of adonalsium being splintered, who Odium is, how to defeat him, etc. we all know a lot about the cosmere as readers, however the characters on Roshar don't know squat. If they were somehow brought "into the know" on the bigger picture, then they'd have a clear direction. Otherwise, they're driven by the wind and at the mercy of circumstance. If this is truly the last desolation, then either they lose to Odium or they beat him. There's no middle ground. The Heralds know that, and they'll get involved for better or for worse. 

Edited October 31, 2017 by joesleepsalot

[Gigalemesh]

On 31/10/2017 at 4:12 AM, joesleepsalot said:

for Kelsier

I find it hard to believe kelsier will become a big player, Brandon has specifically said you won't need to be cosmere aware to understand SA, and I find it hard to believe kelsier would/could conceal his powers while being a big player in the series. This doesn't mean they can't become knowledgeable about shards and whatnot, but it has to evolve naturally in the series so people understand with just the books, and having Kelsier come in and dump all that info feels like a cheat. I mean Zahel hasn't revealed cosmere knowledge to Dalinar so why introduce another character from another series to deliver this info, especially when having someone like Jasnah doing it would be more cohesive in-world

Edited November 1, 2017 by Gigalemesh
Clicked save before I finished