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Nicrosil ferrings and stormlight


Steeldancer

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Ok so this idea came from several assumptions. First, shardplate is made of investiture. Second, that investiture is keyed to the KR who originally made it. Yet gemstones are still able to power them. 

This leads me to the conclusion that gemstones are unkeyed sources of investiture. The issue is that not everyone has the ability to access it. BUT A nicrosil ferring could! 

Just like they wouldn't need the nicrosil band on an unkeyed metalmind, they can tap their investiture to use the stormlight. 

The question is, how would it manifest itself? It's not a spren bond. It might just be... stormlight. Idk. 

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I'm thinking more and more that Stormlight and breath and such aren't able to be stored in nicrosil. 

Every other aspect of Feruchemy is about storing something intrinsic to yourself. I don't think nicrosil is any different. I think it stores the investiture of your spiritweb directly. So you'd be able to store an ability that used investiture, but not the fuel for said ability. 

No proof, just feels right. 

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Looking at Feruchemy and the fact that nicrosil is classified as Spiritual Feruchemical metal, it seems that nicrosil stores parts of Spiritweb aka Innate Investiture.

Stormlight would be Kinetic Investiture. So they probably could not store it.

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No I'm not saying they store stormlight. That's what the gem is for!

The gem is like an unkeyed metalmind. For most people, an unkeyed metalmind also requires a nicrosil one to be able to use it. But a nicrosil could just tap their own stores to use them. In this case, the nicrosil would grant them the ability to use the stormlight. 

Or at least breathe it in. At that point, I have no idea what would happen. Maybe it would just not be useable in surges. Just the stormlight itself. (Strength, speed, healing, perfection ect.).

That's what investiture metalmind do, from what I can glean in BoM. They grant you the ability to use an ability. Like... opening the gates. A new one you normally don't have access to. 

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2 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

No I'm not saying they store stormlight. That's what the gem is for!

The gem is like an unkeyed metalmind. For most people, an unkeyed metalmind also requires a nicrosil one to be able to use it. But a nicrosil could just tap their own stores to use them. In this case, the nicrosil would grant them the ability to use the stormlight. 

Or at least breathe it in. At that point, I have no idea what would happen. Maybe it would just not be useable in surges. Just the stormlight itself. (Strength, speed, healing, perfection ect.).

That's what investiture metalmind do, from what I can glean in BoM. They grant you the ability to use an ability. Like... opening the gates. A new one you normally don't have access to. 

They'd have to have had a stored ability that allows them to pull in Stormlight already though. 

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56 minutes ago, Calderis said:

They'd have to have had a stored ability that allows them to pull in Stormlight already though. 

Thats not what I pulled out of bands of mourning. Investiture is just investiture. It grants you the ability to use other abilities. Wax didn't tap a different type of nicrosil for each different ability. He just tapped investiture, which in turn allowed him to utilize any of the powers in the bands. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Thats not what I pulled out of bands of mourning. Investiture is just investiture. It grants you the ability to use other abilities. Wax didn't tap a different type of nicrosil for each different ability. He just tapped investiture, which in turn allowed him to utilize any of the powers in the bands. 

 

The bands were interwoven metalminds, primarily nicrosil, that granted him Allomancy and Feruchemy in every variety, making him a temporary Fullborn. 

The Allomancy, unlike the Feruchemy, still required him to have metals to burn. 

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Just now, Calderis said:

The bands were interwoven metalminds, primarily nicrosil, that granted him Allomancy and Feruchemy in every variety, making him a temporary Fullborn. 

The Allomancy, unlike the Feruchemy, still required him to have metals to burn. 

... I know that. My point is that I don't think you need to have another ability for nicrosil feruchemy to be useful. Unless there is a WoB about that that I haven't seen. You store INVESTITURE. The INVESTITURE, when tapped, allows you to access other powers. It... opens up your soul. 

I don't know how to properly describe it ugh. I swear it makes sense in my head. 

Here's a better explanation: investiture is investiture, no matter what type it comes in: allomancy, feruchemy, surges, aons. This power is naturally in the spirit web, because it's what the spirit web is made of. This is then stored in nicrosil, this raw investiture. When tapped, the investiture floods the spirit web, allowing for new powers to be accessed, sort of like how tapping connection allows new connections to be made. Now for these new powers to be accessed, you need another source of active, type investiture (like metals, or a metalmind, or a gem full of stormlight) in order to use it. With allomancy it's a bit complicated. With feruchemy you just need an unkeyed metalmind. But I think they could at the very least breathe in stormlight. 

This has just landed on my list of things i want to ask brandon. 

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I... Don't think that's how it works. 

Allomantic ability is decided by someone's sDNA. Even before they snapped, the metal they can burn is written into the investiture that makes up their spirit web. 

Nicrosil stores that investiture in the soul. Wax tapped each individual ability from the bands. It says he tapped "everything." he didn't just tap nicrosil and gain the ability to use everything. 

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17 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I... Don't think that's how it works. 

Allomantic ability is decided by someone's sDNA. Even before they snapped, the metal they can burn is written into the investiture that makes up their spirit web. 

Nicrosil stores that investiture in the soul. Wax tapped each individual ability from the bands. It says he tapped "everything." he didn't just tap nicrosil and gain the ability to use everything. 

You know what? I don't think we have enough information. Let's call it a day and hope someone asks Brandon about this at a signing.

Btw, I imagined it as -tap nicrosil, gain ability to use other abilities. Then you have to actually access said abilities- by tapping them. 

Either way, I feel we need clarification. BoM clearly didn't give us quite enough. I'll look around for any WoB on the subject, although I'm not sure there are any. 

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I don't know. I really like @Steeldancer's idea. One thing that comes to mind is the medallions. They don't seem to have 2or3 different nicrocil stores. They are described as having something along the lines of a band of nicrocil, a band of iron for convenience and a band of brass for warmth. Also with the bands, don't feruchemists have to store different attributes in different metal minds? Like tin feruchemists must use different metal minds for the different senses? So you would need a different nicrosilmind for each type of investiture unless you just simply stored the same thing for everything

Edited by 17th Splinter
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59 minutes ago, 17th Splinter said:

One thing that co es to more and is the medallions. They don't seem to have 2or3 different nicrocil stores. They are described as having something along the lines of a band of nicrocil, a band of iron for convenience and a band of brass for warmth. Also with the bands, don't feruchemists have to store different attributes in different metal minds? Like tin feruchemists must use different metal minds for the different senses? So you would need a different nicrosilmind for each type of investiture unless you just simply stored the same thing for everything

Nothing indicates that. Two separate feruchemists can both store different senses into the same tin mind. Why couldn't one? One band of nicrosil should be able to hold a storage of everything that can be stored into it, it would just have a cumulative maximum charge across all storage. 

We don't know enough about how medallions, the bands included work. The only real mystery is how nicrosil Feruchemy is granted to the holder, because everything else is explained by tapping Nicrosil. 

That one stupid sticking point though... 

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If I understood right @Steeldancer believes that an unkeyed Nicrosilmind is by default Unsealed.

IF this is his idea (and for a while I considerated the same thing, the las year). I have to say that I am now aganist this....Brandon said us that F-Nicrosil and F-Alluminium isn't enough to craft a Medallion while with Steeldancer's idea it will be possible.

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10 minutes ago, Yata said:

If I understood right @Steeldancer believes that an unkeyed Nicrosilmind is by default Unsealed.

IF this is his idea (and for a while I considerated the same thing, the las year). I have to say that I am now aganist this....Brandon said us that F-Nicrosil and F-Alluminium isn't enough to craft a Medallion while with Steeldancer's idea it will be possible.

I'm not sure I explained myself properly, but whatever. Brain canon. 

Can I see that WoB? I've looked around and never saw that (but I'm also awful at finding WoB so)

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2 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

I'm not sure I explained myself properly, but whatever. Brain canon. 

Can I see that WoB? I've looked around and never saw that (but I'm also awful at finding WoB so)

I could not provide It now as I am in a troublesome situation now.

But you could try to find It searching for Connection or Durallumin (the Feruchemical metal that stores Connections)... The WoB said there is Need to workaround with Connections to make a Medallion and that Brandon would provide is a list of the needed steps as the procedure is too complex to explain preciselly without writing It down (of course this are not the exacts words but rather the general topic of the WoB)

Maybe @Calderis could help us

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This is it as far as I can tell. It doesn't really clear anything up, just says that connection is involved. 

Quote

Questioner

Does creating unsealed metalmind involve Feruchemical duralumin?

Brandon Sanderson

(hesitating)...Yes. I will write it all out for you eventually. I want to get at least one more book done, then you find out exactly why and how.

Questioner

Because I was pretty confused about the Investiture and Spiritweb...

Brandon Sanderson

Here is the reason I'm kind of hesitant of this, [why not you just RAFO this one right now], but it is not a RAFO, because it is like it's a secret. I want to write it out exactly how it happens, because I have it in my notes in bullet points and it's complicated, right? Cause I want some of the things in the magic system as be as complicated as for instance explaining how a computer works right now. You can do it, but you know...I want the magic to start getting that technical if that makes sense. When you say "involve", right, that's a big word. Why just don't you let me, after lost metal...if I haven't released it, you have permission to come to me and say: "Brandon, you said you would release this, you haven't yet [...]" and I will give to you the bullet point flowchart of how you build the unkeyed metalminds

 

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Try this one as well:

Quote

QUESTION

So nicrosil. Wax couldn’t use a blank gold metalmind because he’s not a gold ferring, why can he use a blank nicrosil metalmind?

BRANDON SANDERSON

So this will all come out eventually but the idea is there are certain ways to connect yourself to the magic, to hack the magic and make it think you have the Spiritual DNA that you don’t actually have. And this is one of the ways.

QUESTION

And the people who made this medallion have this thing that a regular nicrosil Ferring couldn’t--

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeah, you’re picking up on it. We’ll dig deeper into it as the series progresses.

[Source]

This, combined with the WoB Calderis posted, seems to strongly indicate that there is some (somewhat complicated) additional set of steps required to create the unsealed medallions. As stated in this one, there needs to be a way to trick the spiritweb into thinking it has the ability to tap the nicrosilmind, implying that it's not a function of the unkeyed nicrosilmind to be tapped, but that like all feruchemical powers, the power to tap needs to be present in the person. 

Also, regarding your original idea. From what I understand, you are proposing that a person infuses themselves with stormlight, which would someone give them the necessary abilities to use the metallic arts. As stated by people previously, there are, from my understanding and belief (so this is not necessarily all canonical) a few problems with that. First and foremost is that the user, while possibly abandoning the need for a nicrosilmind, would still be replacing it with the need to have the ability to draw stormlight from spheres and infuse themselves with it. This is, as far as we have seen, not a common ability and something that the layperson can perform, so this replacement would not be a universal idea.

Regardless, this does bring me to the second and more significant issue, that of the fact that I don't think it would even work like that. Investiture does not possess a universal and constant form. It appears to come in different types, and these different types have different effects and behaviours. As has been said by people previously, stormlight is a form of kinetic investiture. On the other hand, the the ability to use allomancy and feruchemy are formed from innate investiture, investiture forming the basis of their being. While interchangeability between the two isn't impossible, as it can be formed by gold feruchemy and the basics of self-infusion of stormlight, that too still requires an additional ability to perform. 

 

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