Hyarmenatan

Crowd of worldhoppers - why they are not mentioned?

11 posts in this topic

Hi folks, 

There is something I've been wondering about and could not find a thread about it. 

Why there are no mentions of massive worldhoppings from Roshar? As far as I understand it, everyone with the Transportation Surge and access to the Shadesmar has potential to worldhop. We cannot make estimations on how many Elsecallers and Truthwatchers there were, but it can range anywhere from three (number of Bonsmiths) and low thousands (Windrunners with squires). For the sake of discussion let's just say they were a total of one thousand of KR with access to the Transportation in a one lifetime. Since the beginning of SA there must have been thousands of potential worldhoppers. How come there is no clean evidence of anyone of Rosharan origin to worldhop? We know that some visitors came to Roshar (17th Shard, Silverlight, Vasher) but they were very few. 

Why KR did not become a thing noticed in history of other Shardworlds? Is there any limitation on Transportation given by Honor we are not aware of? I don't think no one in thousands of years did not think of exploring Cognitive Realm to find perpendicularities and dive into Cosmere. 

EDIT:

What came to me right now - it's possible that KR did actually hop to another worlds, but without access to their spren and the Surges, they were not able to come back, similar to the AonDor teleportation. Hence maybe there were some legends among Radiants like 'if you see a strange pool in Shadesmar, don't explore it. No one who did has ever come back'. But still, if some of them explored perpendicularities, then some remnants should be left in their new worlds like knowledge, stories, or simply a different genes or looks due to the strange Rosharan genetic traits. 

Edited by Hyarmenatan
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I don't believe the surge transportation can grant you the ability to worldhop. If I'm not mistaken, even the Heralds are unable to worldhop. To worldhop there are requirements which are difficult to reach, some of the more well versed sharders should be able to fill you in on this. The main reason is the fact that you are innately bound to your world, it's difficult to leave yours.

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Also, Worldhopping has nothing to do with the normal magic systems.  Brandon has said that you don't need to be an Invested person to do it, using Baon as an example.

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But doesn't that surge, transportation, put you in shadesmar? If you're in shadesmar, you can definitely worldhop. I assumed Jasnah could get in and out of the cognitive realm without using a perpendicularity. Also, it's possible that it requires Jasnah's specific set, of transportation and transformation(soulcasting). 

And, she would certainly have her spren in the Cognitive Realm, even on other planets (IIRC), and could possibly also have it on the planets themselves. She would just have to be careful to bring stormlight infused spheres with her... otherwise she's trapped. 

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I remember reading a discussion on Reddit a few years back where someone claimed that Jasnah was said to be a potential (future) worldhopper. Not sure of the veracity of that claim and I doubt that if she was capable of worldhopping, that it would mean others like her were also capable of doing so. But if anyone could it would be her.

My own personal view is that I don't believe just being an Elsecaller or Truthwatcher grants you this ability. I think that maybe its something else entirely but that having the ability to reach Shadesmar in the first place, is probably the first step along that path.

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Physical beings and exit their world relatively easily. The spren can only follow if certain requirements are met. This is true for all cognitive shadows and denizens  of the cognitive realm, which may be in part why so many seek to bond to a physical being. (Pet theory is the shades of Thredony are not trying to kill but are trying to bond humans and breaking the simple rules attracts them because only physical beings can do those things.) A WoB indicated that a Selish person bonded to a Seon would have different surges on Roshar BUT it would require a hack to get the Seon there in the first place.

So while a KR could worldhop they would have to leave their spren behind and likely their ability to return, Unless they could still use their powers away from their spren. As for Jasnah to get out to the cognitive realm she still had to find a perpendicularity. It was also unexpected that she entered so completely in the first place. So i suspect there is more to it then the case of having access to the surge of transportation.

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Some people in here are mistaken. It is Cognitive Entities that have trouble getting stuck the physical places. Im the one who got that WoB, the Heralds are Cognitive Shadows and that is why they would get stuck.

In the Shadesmar map we know that the ways to different Shardworlds are titles, so some Worldhoppers have definitely have come from Roshar, it is likely that Elsecallers were among them.

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First of all are the Elsecallers and Willshapers the One with the Trasportation Surge.

Then as the Cognitive Beings can't leave their homeland because the Investiture Who composes bind them to the Place...this unless you manage to hacking the thing to made It possible.

It Will become hard but possible.

Without this workaround a KR would be unable to leave Roshar's CR wihtout lose his own Powers.

Except for this the only thing that prevent Jasnah from reach Scadrial is the habit to make looong Walk XD 

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17 hours ago, Julio said:

She would just have to be careful to bring stormlight infused spheres with her... otherwise she's trapped. 

She would still have the possibility to go back into Cognitive Realm via Shardpool, e.g. on Scadrial, if Sazed left his Pool in the plain site (I suppose he did).

So the steps to Worldhop as a Radiant are:

1) access the Transportation and move to Shadesmar

2) Walk to another planet in CR (e.g. to Scadrial). This one depends on whether you can 'break' the Connection that binds you physically to your original Shardwold?

3) Use Perpendicularity to appear physically on another planet

4) To go back, you need either a) have infused spheres and working bond with your spren which I am not sure is the case) or b ) use the Shardpool on the world you arrived to or c) use some other, local method of accessing the Cognitive Realm or d) stay there forever.

 

This still does not explain the lack of bigger presence of Rosharans in the Cosmere. I bet in thousands of years there must have been many of them who hack the system. Or it is much harder than we pressume to hop as a Radiant. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Hyarmenatan said:

4) To go back, you need either a) have infused spheres and working bond with your spren which I am not sure is the case) or b ) use the Shardpool on the world you arrived to or c) use some other, local method of accessing the Cognitive Realm or d) stay there forever.

It's almost sure any Infused Sphere will not last so long...Move between Shardworld seems to be a long travel (at least weeks or maybe months) and the Stormlight in the gem will not last so long.

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I always assumed they didn't worldhop because they didn't want to, not because they can't.

I am of the opinion that tranportation (possibly only is used with transfornation) does allow you to world hop, but as has been stated it would require a working spren bond and stromlight.

I agree with Yata that most spheres would not last long enough to be useable for the return journey.

Even so there should have been at least one whole order of KR (Elsecallers and maybe Willshapers) capable of world hopping.

However we know it is very difficult for the spren of KR to leave the planet. We also are told by Syl in WoK that when she went to get the poisonous leaf for Kaladin that she almost becamse mindless again because of the distance. So if the KR left by themselves, would it leave their Spren mindless? Could they do that to a friend?

When you then factor in that the KR were the "watchers at the rim" and were supposed to prepare for and guard against desolations, I expect they were too focussed on Roshar to worry much about visiting other worlds.

So I expect there were a few worldhopping KR but certainly not enough to leave a lasting impression on the worlds they visited.

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