kiapet Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) No one had made this yet, so I figured I would! Who do you think it is? Edited September 13, 2017 by kiapet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Ialai. Plenty of motives even if she doesn't know that Adolin is the killer. Plenty more if she does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoibheann Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Yup! Ialai did it directly or had someone do it. She's as devious as her husband was, if not more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seloun Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 My first thought was that it might be an Unmade influence thing going on, like a variant of the Thrill. The thing that bugged me was that it was 'exactly' like the other murder - an extended fight that ended with a puncture in the eye and the same position of the corpse. Without more forensic evidence it'd be difficult to know if it could have been staged, but assuming that there are no indication that the victim was disabled another way or restrained somehow it seems like it'd be difficult to have a fight (appear to) end up exactly that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 One thing is clear. Whoever ordered and actually did it had to be extremely cold-blooded and meticulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Kelsier. Seriously, we don't know enough yet. Ialai seems too obvious, but it could be her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyarmenatan Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 My bet is on Renarin. He knows what Adolin did, and tries to pose as a killer by killing more people in order to protect Adolin. Renarin knows that Adolin will snap and reveal what he did, and Renarin cannot allow the Kholin family to lose their heir. Also, according to Renarin, Adolin is the more loved as a son, so if it is a choice between losing one of them, Dalinar would prefer disposing Renarin over Adolin. He is sacrificing himself in order to protect father, brother and basically everyone from their inner circle. Plus, Renarin is not very popular anyway so he does not has much to lose. As for Ialai, I think it is too far fetched. This theory is a bit overcomplicated, even though Alethi love complicated plots. Somehow I don't buy it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgenio8 Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 I will keep my bet in Adolin. I think he did it, influenced by Odium (or one of it's agent's). Not consciously, but he as some remembering of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 I am going to go Ghostbloods on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 My first and still best guess is the Ghostbloods, but I can totally see Ialai being behind it, as well. Hey - maybe Ialai is in the Ghostbloods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 One of Sadeas's soldiers. They were there long enough to see Sadeas's state when he died and have the guilt/rage to do something like this/want revenge. Ialai may be involved, but I suspect she'd be more devious. It is not Renarin. If you can't see how terribly impolitic that is you need to read up on the Sandy Hook shooting and the misperceptions it's caused involving the ASD(autism spectrum disorder) community. Brandon isn't that stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Aminar said: One of Sadeas's soldiers. They were there long enough to see Sadeas's state when he died and have the guilt/rage to do something like this/want revenge. You have to be very, very, very cold blooded to kill someone the exact same way, and then to leave them in the exact same position. Need to remember every single detail of how he was left, then have the control to arrange him identically. A normal person couldn't do it. Its why when these things happen irl its usually a sociopath or psycopath, who don't feel empathy the same way as others. Most other people would make a mistake, tremble, or puke their guts out in the process. Alethi may kill a lot, but its usually even in the Thrill, so don't have the requisite cold blood and control for this. Edited September 13, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 24 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said: You have to be very, very, very cold blooded to kill someone the exact same way, and then to leave them in the exact same position. Need to remember every single detail of how he was left, then have the control to arrange him identically. A normal person couldn't do it. Its why when these things happen irl its usually a sociopath or psycopath, who don't feel empathy the same way as others. Most other people would make a mistake, tremble, or puke their guts out in the process. Alethi may kill a lot, but its usually even in the Thrill, so don't have the requisite cold blood and control for this. Soldiers can get pretty scary. War breaks down a lot of those walls as it is. Once someone is the enemy they stop being human. I'm sure you could find a plenty of examples of soldiers doing terrible things to the enemy without much work. And once you think someone killed your leader that person becomes the enemy real fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 41 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said: You have to be very, very, very cold blooded to kill someone the exact same way, and then to leave them in the exact same position. Need to remember every single detail of how he was left, then have the control to arrange him identically. A normal person couldn't do it. Its why when these things happen irl its usually a sociopath or psycopath, who don't feel empathy the same way as others. Most other people would make a mistake, tremble, or puke their guts out in the process. Alethi may kill a lot, but its usually even in the Thrill, so don't have the requisite cold blood and control for this. We know one who is somewhat psychopatic though: Mraize. He stated that torturing Shallan would be fun... if he really feels that way, doing this wouldn't be a problem for him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Which is why Ghostbloods are at the top of my list of suspects. They are not normal, they know things, and Mraize (and I bet others too) have the needed focus, control and cold blood for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 4 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said: We know one who is somewhat psychopatic though: Mraize. He stated that torturing Shallan would be fun... if he really feels that way, doing this wouldn't be a problem for him. Sure. But what's Mraize's motivation. The only one I can think of is sewing chaos and that's a pretty lame motivation. He's not trying to bring down Dalinar so far as we know. I could see Taravangian's faction trying this kind of thing as a new way of hindering Dalinar seeing their lead Assassin failed. But nothing Mraize has done or said gives him a motive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, Aminar said: Sure. But what's Mraize's motivation. The only one I can think of is sewing chaos and that's a pretty lame motivation. He's not trying to bring down Dalinar so far as we know. I could see Taravangian's faction trying this kind of thing as a new way of hindering Dalinar seeing their lead Assassin failed. But nothing Mraize has done or said gives him a motive. They seem like a criminal organization. Criminal empires require stability to function as much as more credible entities. Sowing chaos is counterproductive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted September 13, 2017 Report Share Posted September 13, 2017 Ialai. She likely suspects Adolin already, but by duplicating the murder she can just sit in the shadows and watch who is acting strange and INCREDIBLY GUILTY to confirm her suspicions. The future likely holds more murders and mind games to drive Adolin insane from guilt with the ultimate goal of undermining Dalinar when Adolin breaks and confesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathrangking Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 I am not sure that enough evidence exists to unequivocally point at a candidate for murderer. I am however leaning towards a member of Sadeas's camp who is out for blood perhaps Ialai perhaps someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hischier Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 33 minutes ago, Calderis said: They seem like a criminal organization. Criminal empires require stability to function as much as more credible entities. Sowing chaos is counterproductive. Chaos could just as easily work in the Ghostbloods favor. Especially if it means people are too busy searching for a serial killer to pay attention to other things. This seems more personal than that to me, but it could still work to their advantage. Especially since they thrive on information and with people getting murdered the exploration of Urithiru will probably slow down a good bit. There's got to be some important information in that place somewhere after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 15 hours ago, Hyarmenatan said: My bet is on Renarin. He knows what Adolin did, and tries to pose as a killer by killing more people in order to protect Adolin. Renarin knows that Adolin will snap and reveal what he did, and Renarin cannot allow the Kholin family to lose their heir. Also, according to Renarin, Adolin is the more loved as a son, so if it is a choice between losing one of them, Dalinar would prefer disposing Renarin over Adolin. He is sacrificing himself in order to protect father, brother and basically everyone from their inner circle. Plus, Renarin is not very popular anyway so he does not has much to lose. As for Ialai, I think it is too far fetched. This theory is a bit overcomplicated, even though Alethi love complicated plots. Somehow I don't buy it. I think it is far-fetched to think it is Renarin... The copycats murders are NOT helping Adolin: they are hindering him. Everyone was ready to forget about Sadeas up until the second murder happened. Now, the focus is on who did it while it previously wasn't. I also seriously doubt Renarin would kill innocent people in a distorted plot to protect Adolin especially since it really isn't doing anything for him. Ialai and Torol had a plan to take Adolin down. Ialai warned Torol on Adolin being a weapon and he may cut himself if not careful. I say her first thoughts will be Torol did cut himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 While I logically think Ialai Sadeas or the Ghostbloods are the most likely, I had to click on the 'Adolin doesn't know it yet' option, because something's niggling at me but I need more time to brood on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormblessDave Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 I chose 'others', this is because all of these seem predictable to varying degrees. I feel Brandon has something up his sleeve. Maybe a crazy herald lurking in Urithiru's shadows? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Let's break it down into the logical components: Fact #1: a ruthless and cold-blooded killer is in Urithiru, willing to kill an innocent person in a grisly and very specific manner, to achieve a specific aim. Fact #2: the precise mimicking of the way Sadeas was killed means the killer either (a) saw, first hand, either Sadeas' murder as it happened, or (b) was not present for the event, but saw the body before it was moved shortly after Dalinar was called to the scene. We know the people to see Sadeas' body before Dalinar - basically, the members of Bridge Four who found it, and the members of Sadeas' guards who arrived soon thereafter, looking for Sadeas. There is also the remote possibility that the Second Killer is not in either group, but is someone who was already in Urithiru who saw Sadeas' body before its discovery without seeing the actual murder, and just disappeared without informing anybody else. Until we see any reason for anybody to have done this, let's ignore this possibility as pointless. It doesn't seem like Bridge Four or a member of Sadeas' guard corps would have a reason to do #2, which is why to my mind, Mraize is the most likely killer, and the motive remains unclear. Since he just discovered Shallan = Veil, and mentioned her debt to the Ghostbloods in the context of her family, this would be another way to tie her to them, with blackmail about her betrothed Adolin. This would also mean Mraize saw the murder happen, to know it was Adolin. On the other hand, if there were a skilled assassin employed by Ialai who was kept hidden (yet close to hand) among Sadeas' guards, it would also make sense - she'd know how he was killed, not exactly by whom, but would assume it was Dalinar's group, if not by his direct command. In which case, the killing of Vedekar Perel would represent a reprisal killing ordered by her, to convey the message "we can do the eye-stabby, murder-and-disappear thing, too". In addition, it would help flush out the real killer of Sadeas, exactly because Ialai would know they were not the same killer: look for someone whose behavior reveals that they ALSO know the killer was not the same, and you've found someone who knows who killed Sadeas. And as my quote highlighted in the Oathbringer 7-9 thread about Adolin trying to figure out Kaladin's secret Surgebinding powers ("you know... the, um, stuff?"), Adolin is probably not going to be very good at keeping that knowledge from showing. I see no reason to posit "Adolin was out of his skull and did a second, unconscious yet very carefully executed murder of an allied highprince's officer under Odium's influence that exactly mirrored how he killed Sadeas earlier in an unplanned moment of rage", that's just nuts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Same topic, different thread. Great analysis by first poster. Would be great if mods could merge these two. @Chaos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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