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[OB] Tezim


dantlee

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7 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I'm strongly leaning with worldhopper. Mraize is a worldhopper with a damnation impressive collection of Cosmere souvenirs (including sand from Taldain and a branch from Yolen, both of which Khriss can't enter), I'm pretty sure if he says "that creature is not human, or at least not from Roshar" he is right. 

Heralds are wierd though. We have a WoB on them being Cognitive Shadows. We don't know the extent of Mraizes knowledge on Tezim, but it sounds like they haven't seen eachother in person. It is possible that he has just heard wierd stuff about Tezim, that implies that he is more than a human. We also know that Heralds most likely have other powers beside their Honorblades, and that is another thing that might have tipped Mraize off. In short, he is most likely judging based on rumors speaking about Tezims wierd abilities, which comes from him being a Herald.

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1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Heralds are wierd though. We have a WoB on them being Cognitive Shadows. We don't know the extent of Mraizes knowledge on Tezim, but it sounds like they haven't seen eachother in person. It is possible that he has just heard wierd stuff about Tezim, that implies that he is more than a human. We also know that Heralds most likely have other powers beside their Honorblades, and that is another thing that might have tipped Mraize off. In short, he is most likely judging based on rumors speaking about Tezims wierd abilities, which comes from him being a Herald.

Good point, possible I guess. 

Poor Ishar, everyone suspects him of everything from the weather to secret societies due to a phrase or two ^^.

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1 minute ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Poor Ishar, everyone suspects him of everything from the weather to secret societies due to a phrase or two ^^.

When did we blame bad weather on Ishar? That one is entirely on the Stormfather and singing Parshendi. But Ishar will have to suit himself. He shouldn't be so mysterious.

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8 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I'm strongly leaning with worldhopper. Mraize is a worldhopper with a damnation impressive collection of Cosmere souvenirs (including sand from Taldain and a branch from Yolen, both of which Khriss can't enter), I'm pretty sure if he says "that creature is not human, or at least not from Roshar" he is right. 

Mraize is not infallible regardless of his collection (if he did collect the samples personally and not just steal or buy them). Hes still an apprentice, remember?

 

By the way, it doesnt seem as if any of the Heralds fit the established races of Roshar. The 2 we've seen 

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1 hour ago, Nymeros said:

By the way, it doesnt seem as if any of the Heralds fit the established races of Roshar. The 2 we've seen 

The Heralds were born between 5,000 and 10,000 years before the current period in Roshar. That's a lot of time for races of human to mix, separate, and repeat until they aren't recognizable compared to historical races.

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12 hours ago, Khyrindor said:

Out of curiosity, who do you suspect as Ishar? I'm doing a Stormlight Archive reread currently and I'd like to look out for such things (still in WoK).

Otherwise, I think I support the idea that Tezim is Ishar. The parallels make a lot of sense. Only kicker is Mraize's quote about the local species. Could be something we haven't seen yet too.

Look at my signature. I think he appears when Shallan first is going towards the palaneum. Basically it says "an ardent with a beard and shaved head" which looks like Ishar. The kicker is that the chapter heading features 4 pictures of Ishar, which makes me more disposed to say that he is likely to be Ishar. 

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18 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Look at my signature. I think he appears when Shallan first is going towards the palaneum. Basically it says "an ardent with a beard and shaved head" which looks like Ishar. The kicker is that the chapter heading features 4 pictures of Ishar, which makes me more disposed to say that he is likely to be Ishar. 

I see where you're thinking, and there's nothing to disprove it, but every single ardent we've seen has the "customary" shaved head & beard. And as it's probably one of the first times we see ardents on page, the purpose may be Brandon letting a new reader know what they look like and that they're around. I think we'd have more evidence that Ishar is Tezim than a random ardent.

I will say that I find the Herald pictures of Ishar is much more convincing, though many other chapters around there have the same ones as well, so I'm not sure we should glean that much off of them.

EDIT: I should also say that I'm not sure we should take the artistic representations of the Heralds as a fact at what they look like. Nalan's picture looks like an average white guy, even though he's described as dark-skinned. There's also no sight of the pale birthmark on his cheek.

Edited by Khyrindor
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17 minutes ago, Khyrindor said:

I see where you're thinking, and there's nothing to disprove it, but every single ardent we've seen has the "customary" shaved head & beard. And as it's probably one of the first times we see ardents on page, the purpose may be Brandon letting a new reader know what they look like and that they're around. I think we'd have more evidence that Ishar is Tezim than a random ardent.

I will say that I find the Herald pictures of Ishar is much more convincing, though many other chapters around there have the same ones as well, so I'm not sure we should glean that much off of them.

EDIT: I should also say that I'm not sure we should take the artistic representations of the Heralds as a fact at what they look like. Nalan's picture looks like an average white guy, even though he's described as dark-skinned. There's also no sight of the pale birthmark on his cheek.

They're all stone looking. There's no skin color implied in those pictures. 

And yes, I thought that. But the 4 ishars thing is just a little much to handle. Also 4 paliahs showed up when paliah made an appearance iirc. So... I'm inclined to keep that ardent open as a possibility. 

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20 minutes ago, Khyrindor said:

EDIT: I should also say that I'm not sure we should take the artistic representations of the Heralds as a fact at what they look like. Nalan's picture looks like an average white guy, even though he's described as dark-skinned. There's also no sight of the pale birthmark on his cheek.

Average white guy? You sure you haven't gotten Nalans picture mixed up with Kalak? He looks pretty average. Nalan is the hooded one. 

Edited by Toaster Retribution
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I can look again when I'm home, but I know which one Nalan is. I meant that (IIRC) we see him described as Makabaki, and every Makabaki has the full lips and broad nose features along with the dark skin, which Nalan's "stone looking" statue doesn't. And I'm not just being picky about his Herald picture. None of them seem to have the features as described (at least that I've seen). Taln is described as Alethi, yet his statue lacks the epicanthic fold.

Either way, I agree we can't really say for certain based on the evidence. I'm just saying we shouldn't take the representations of the Heralds as truth in what they look like.

@Steeldancer Again, out of curiosity, where's Pailiah? The only ones I know about are Ash, Taln, Nale, Kalak (if he's Nale's companion in Jasnah's prologue), and Jezrien (if he's the drunk man at the beggar's feast).

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Just now, Khyrindor said:

I can look again when I'm home, but I know which one Nalan is. I meant that (IIRC) we see him described as Makabaki, and every Makabaki has the full lips and broad nose features along with the dark skin, which Nalan's "stone looking" statue doesn't. And I'm not just being picky about his Herald picture. None of them seem to have the features as described (at least that I've seen). Taln is described as Alethi, yet his statue lacks the epicanthic fold.

Either way, I agree we can't really say for certain based on the evidence. I'm just saying we shouldn't take the representations of the Heralds as truth in what they look like.

@Steeldancer Again, out of curiosity, where's Pailiah? The only ones I know about are Ash, Taln, Nale, Kalak (if he's Nale's companion in Jasnah's prologue), and Jezrien (if he's the drunk man at the beggar's feast).

She's the one in the library. She's confirmed

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11 minutes ago, Khyrindor said:

You'll have to be more specific than that :P In the Palaneum around the same time? Different library?

We're still waiting for The Sovereign to get the picture, but in his book, Brandon signed that the female ardent in the Palaneum that Shallan see is Paliah. 

The fact that he wrote that the light from her lantern made it appear as if "a Herald were wandering the stacks" was a little bit over the top in retrospect. 

Brandon likes laughing at us. 

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Just now, Calderis said:

We're still waiting for The Sovereign to get the picture, but in his book, Brandon signed that the female ardent in the Palaneum that Shallan see is Paliah. 

The fact that he wrote that the light from her lantern made it appear as if "a Herald were wandering the stacks" was a little bit over the top in retrospect. 

Brandon likes laughing at us. 

Love it XD I'll look for that in my reread.

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I think a general look isn't really a clue about something to be an Herald. As other said almost every male Ardent fits that look.

I think we will need someone with at least some features (inner or from context) to work as clue...For example I had a possible guest on Ishar himself, but it's just a wide speculation until something else gives us another clue

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1 hour ago, Yata said:

I think a general look isn't really a clue about something to be an Herald. As other said almost every male Ardent fits that look.

I think we will need someone with at least some features (inner or from context) to work as clue...For example I had a possible guest on Ishar himself, but it's just a wide speculation until something else gives us another clue

Would be fun to know your guess anyway. If you want to share of course.

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3 hours ago, Salkara said:

The Heralds were born between 5,000 and 10,000 years before the current period in Roshar. That's a lot of time for races of human to mix, separate, and repeat until they aren't recognizable compared to historical races.

....I'm not sure why you're telling me this.

2 hours ago, Khyrindor said:

I can look again when I'm home, but I know which one Nalan is. I meant that (IIRC) we see him described as Makabaki, and every Makabaki has the full lips and broad nose features along with the dark skin, which Nalan's "stone looking" statue doesn't. And I'm not just being picky about his Herald picture. None of them seem to have the features as described (at least that I've seen). Taln is described as Alethi, yet his statue lacks the epicanthic fold.

You seem to have somehow conflated Makabaki with blacks found on Earth. Makabaki are small and fine boned, not wide featured. >.>

Their is a wide featured, afro'd race on Roshar.....but they have blue-ish skin and white hair.

 

Taln is described as being dark skinned like a Makabaki but massive in build. He doesn't appear Alethi at all.

 

I do agree that the small Herald sculpt shouldn't be used as a means of marking their appearances though.

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1 minute ago, Nymeros said:

I do agree that the small Herald sculpt shouldn't be used as a means of marking their appearances though.

Especially as most superficial features are easily changed. 

The Heralds went into hiding. If they had a distinguishing feature that could be changed (Ishar's beard), why wouldn't they do it (shaving is difficult)? 

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8 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

....I'm not sure why you're telling me this.

You said the Heralds didn't fit the established Rosharian races. I was making the point that their birth races may not look the same in current time. Makabaki people may have been "massive in build" when the Heralds first walked Roshar even though they are now "small and fine boned."

Edited by Salkara
Grammar
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7 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

....I'm not sure why you're telling me this.

You seem to have somehow conflated Makabaki with blacks found on Earth. Makabaki are small and fine boned, not wide featured. >.>

Their is a wide featured, afro'd race on Roshar.....but they have blue-ish skin and white hair.

 

Taln is described as being dark skinned like a Makabaki but massive in build. He doesn't appear Alethi at all.

 

I do agree that the small Herald sculpt shouldn't be used as a means of marking their appearances though.

Eh, I guess I'll pay better attention in my reread.

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6 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Would be fun to know your guess anyway. If you want to share of course.

Sure, the Madman in Axis' Interlude. The "god" of the vegetable city, i don't know but It's seems fit well with a madness related to "pious" and "guiding"

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Just now, Ansalem said:

I doubt Nalan would be taking advice from him if that were the case.

Yeah, unless he had lucid times and delirious times, maybe if you stay to the fiction he creates, he May be' reliable in his knowledge.

Or simply his "hobby" is a way to keep under Control his madness...if he didn't express It in that way he could try to realized seriously.

As I said It was a speculation but by the way, you see how the Ishar's advices took Nalan

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Just now, Yata said:

Yeah, unless he had lucid times and delirious times, maybe if you stay to the fiction he creates, he May be' reliable in his knowledge.

Or simply his "hobby" is a way to keep under Control his madness...if he didn't express It in that way he could try to realized seriously.

As I said It was a speculation but by the way, you see how the Ishar's advices took Nalan

Well, I'm not ruling it out. It's entirely possible. But Nalan has commented on a similar problem of Jezrien's.

Quote

“Praise Yaezir,” he said. “Herald of Kings. May he lead in wisdom. If he ever stops drooling.”

So I figure if Ishar is playing god to a city made of trash, Nalan wouldn't think too highly of his advice.

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1 hour ago, Ansalem said:

Well, I'm not ruling it out. It's entirely possible. But Nalan has commented on a similar problem of Jezrien's.

So I figure if Ishar is playing god to a city made of trash, Nalan wouldn't think too highly of his advice.

We don't know what the relations between Heralds was before the breaking of the Oathpact though. Nalan might have had a dislike toward Jezrien and a respect for Ishar which carries over now. He might be biased, simply.

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