Jump to content

[OB] Oathbringer chapters 7-9


Steeldancer

Recommended Posts

38 minutes ago, PunSpren said:

I gotta say, All the descriptions of strata, especially alternating bands and colors trending to yellow, red, brown, etc are very typical of sandstone. What the heck is a load of sandstone doing in the high mountains.......

Well Mt Everest,the tallest mountain on Earth, has a layer of limestone (formed on the ocean floor) at its summit. I don't think it would be unusual to find sandstone on a mountain, from a geological perspective.


That being said, there is definitely something going on with this specific strata. Without having both quotes out to directly compare them, I believe that the rock that Tien found was from the same source as the rock that forms this building. We know Urithiru wasn't formed by man's hand, so what formed it? Also, is the entire mountain made of this same strata? Is it protected from erosion? We just need a geologic map of the rock layers already, lol.

Edit: I was just thinking about this more from a geological perspective, if the layers/strata are curving up or down, or in swirls, then it would have to be metamorphic rock. Sedimentary rock, like sandstone, would be in flat layers because sediment deposits don't occur at odd angles. It can't be igneous rock, because any strata would have recrystallized when under extreme heat/pressure (no layers). Metamorphic rock is sedimentary rock that has been warped/transformed under heat and pressure. So I would say that the rock that Urithiru is "carved" from is metamorphic rock based off the evidence I see. I don't know if that helps anything, but someone did ask for a geology nerd.
Also, this all could not matter because the magic system could interfere with natural phenomena that we would see on Earth, making direct comparisons impossible.

Edited by Spicker
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, lol_king said:

It would be great if Kaladin meets Jasnah on his hunt. I want her back in the main story as soon as possible. 

What's particularly compelling about this angle is that neither of them has ever seen the other. Kaladin is aware of Jasnah Kholin, of course - she's famous, as a heretical scholar who's the sister of the King, and Kaladin was present when Shallan brought news of her death to Dalinar and Navani - but Jasnah has no inkling of Kaladin's existence or connection with her family.

If Hoid/Wit were still traveling with Jasnah when they encountered each other, that'd be even more fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

You need a spanreed? I’ve got one to the queen regent in Kholinar, but that one hasn’t been responsive lately. 

Does anyone know why Laral refers (presumably) to Aesudan as the queen regent? As far as I know, this book doesn't have a queen regent. Aesudan is the queen, and she is overseeing things in Kholinar, but Elhokar is not dead. Navani is the widow of the late king and is the dowager queen. Is this a mistake? An in-world usage of regent? 

ETA: Navani was the dowager queen. She's married to a Highprince now...though most people still don't know.

Edited by Frostlander
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Calderis said:

Considering she directly contacts Navani and Dalinar then speaks to Dalinar, "Queen Regent" is clearly Navani. 

I disagree with this.  Navani comments a bunch of times on how she's been all but ignored politically since Gavilar died.  Plus, Laral specifically mentions the queen regent in Kholinar.  I would think that most of the Alethi aristocracy would know that Navani went to the shattered plains.  Plus, it makes sense to call Aesudan the queen regent since she is the one (supposedly) ruling in the capital. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Frostlander said:

Does anyone know why Laral refers (presumably) to Aesudan as the queen regent? As far as I know, this book doesn't have a queen regent. Aesudan is the queen, and she is overseeing things in Kholinar, but Elhokar is not dead. Navani is the widow of the late king and is the dowager queen. Is this a mistake? An in-world usage of regent? 

Yeah, looks like a mistake, but not necessarily a big one. 'Queen regent' is historically when a child king can't rule, so his mom does. Aesudan is the queen, and she is ruling in Elhokar's stead while he's at war, so there's not really a better term that shows her responsibilities are above what they would be if Elhokar was in Kholinar.

4 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Considering she directly contacts Navani and Dalinar then speaks to Dalinar, "Queen Regent" is clearly Navani. 

No, it's Aesudan. From the chapter:

Quote

"You need a spanreed? I’ve got one to the queen regent in Kholinar, but that one hasn’t been responsive lately."

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Noppadet said:

 

Also the new surgeon apprentice was intentionally left a secret; I'm guessing it will be someone that Kaladin will know or will think strongly about. 

Or there were already so many things cluttering the narrative in those chapters that there really wasn't time to introduce her.

Actually, probably both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Yeah, looks like a mistake, but not necessarily a big one. 'Queen regent' is historically when a child king can't rule, so his mom does. Aesudan is the queen, and she is ruling in Elhokar's stead while he's at war, so there's not really a better term that shows her responsibilities are above what they would be if Elhokar was in Kholinar.

Mistake, or SICK BURN!?!  Maybe Laral, in addition to having a blasphemously-symmetrical name, is dropping shade on the inept King of Alethkar!

Joking aside, this may be some world-building.  We know the Alethi are a warlike people, so perhaps they have formalized the system of governance for when the King is away on campaign.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Noppadet said:

Also the new surgeon apprentice was intentionally left a secret; I'm guessing it will be someone that Kaladin will know or will think strongly about. 

I think it's more about the pacing of the narrative. Too much information too quickly can turn a story into an info dump.

Kaladin did hear his father refer to the apprentice by name, "unless [Roshone] thinks Mara is ready [to take over for him] after only a few years of apprenticeship" or something like that, and didn't react, so I don't think it's someone he knew (by name) from his childhood in Hearthstone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My impression after reading the 6 pages:

@robardin theory Ghostbloods did the copycat murder to save Adolin and continue blackmailing Shallan is my favorite. Sons of Honor seem to have far too little knowledge/eyes around to do anything of this scale I suspect. They just got an early start from Gavilar's visions, but have been stagnating since, is my impression. As for Ialai doing it, maybe but its a dangerous game. Kill to catch a muderer, can easily have the tables turned on you, and even if you bring down the person you are aiming for (Adolin) very easy you go down too. 

On people thinking Adolin did both murders...ehhhh, NO. Everyone in the warcamps and their axehounds likely knew that Adolin hated Sadeas with a passion. Threats flying in winehouses, in feasts, duel, etc. The second murder if anything makes things easier for Adolin, as he'd be the last suspect. Unfortunately also means it needs to be very carefully handled, and don't think he has the skill to do so. Unless Shallan or Renarin decide to help him.

Mara, don't think she is that relevant. 

Champion talk always rubs me wrong. I think because its too obvious. I can't help feeling that idea is either misunderstood or a red herring.

I'm a bit surprised Kaladin left so quickly Hearthstone. And sad he didn't introduce Sylphrena to his parents. "Mom, Dad, I want to introduce you to someone very special to me" :D

 

Edited by WhiteLeeopard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The second murder is very curious,  The suspect pool could be very large so lets look a reasons why someone would do a copy cat killing.

 

1) To put more pressure to investigate.  Lets face it, even though he was a highprince not that many people are going to be upset over Sadeas bitting it.

2) Someone knows it was Adolin.  If this is the case it could almost be a way to protect Adolin,  if someone can show he has a alibi for this murder that takes suspicion that he killed Sadeas.  

3) to cause chaos.

 

Tired now so can't think of other reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I almost forgot about Aesudan's decadent and corrupt rule triggering the riots in Kholinar, before the Evenstorm. Almost.

I wonder how this will shape up in Elhokar's story arc. Not only is he clearly feeling overshadowed, usurped, and sidelined by Dalinar, Kaladin, etc., but his authority cannot even shield his own wife and child, and his hometown is in open rebellion against him. How can he possibly leave that to Dalinar to address? He's going to have to Do Something Himself About That to have even a shred of self-respect.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before I read all this post I want to comment with some ideas:

- what if Adolin is actually the second murderer? The way he reacted can be read as a nigtmare that becomes true

- on the same line of thought, what if Renarim saw Adolin with nine shadows and only now understood what that means?

More latter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the way, just finished rereading WoR today. Shallan was uncomfortable with Renarin even then. 

Quote

“I . . .” He looked to her and wiped the water from his eyes, gauntlet hanging from his waist. “I should be with my father. I should be able to fight. Only I’m useless.”

Great. He was creepy and whiny. “Well, your father ordered you to help me, so deal with your issues. Everyone, let’s search this place.”

Quote

“We’re dead . . .” Renarin muttered.

“Someone shut him up,” Shallan snapped. “Gag him if you have to.”

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Spicker said:

Well Mt Everest,the tallest mountain on Earth, has a layer of limestone (formed on the ocean floor) at its summit. I don't think it would be unusual to find sandstone on a mountain, from a geological perspective.


That being said, there is definitely something going on with this specific strata. Without having both quotes out to directly compare them, I believe that the rock that Tien found was from the same source as the rock that forms this building. We know Urithiru wasn't formed by man's hand, so what formed it? Also, is the entire mountain made of this same strata? Is it protected from erosion? We just need a geologic map of the rock layers already, lol.

Edit: I was just thinking about this more from a geological perspective, if the layers/strata are curving up or down, or in swirls, then it would have to be metamorphic rock. Sedimentary rock, like sandstone, would be in flat layers because sediment deposits don't occur at odd angles. It can't be igneous rock, because any strata would have recrystallized when under extreme heat/pressure (no layers). Metamorphic rock is sedimentary rock that has been warped/transformed under heat and pressure. So I would say that the rock that Urithiru is "carved" from is metamorphic rock based off the evidence I see. I don't know if that helps anything, but someone did ask for a geology nerd.
Also, this all could not matter because the magic system could interfere with natural phenomena that we would see on Earth, making direct comparisons impossible.

Image result for sandstone strata swirls

Small quibble, Sedimentary sandstone can be formed a couple different ways. Sandstone from compacted sand dunes and similar sources can and do have swirls and it dances in more ways than just horizontal layers.

I agree completely you can find different layers of rock high in the mountains. I found this out first hand when climbing the Grand Teton this year ( the black dike is a large igneous intrusion in a sea of metamorphic granite).

Metamorphic Gniess might be typical of swirling patterns as well. Either way the city was not formed naturally :) Just the imagery brings to mind sandstone swirls that have been polished through different cross sections for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Champion talk always rubs me wrong. I think because its too obvious. I can't help feeling that idea is either misunderstood or a red herring.

 

I agree. Dalinar is getting info from the visions, but he already has shown a tendency to jump to conclusions and misinterpret them. Also, this champion info comes after he "broke" the visions a bit. Also, I don't trust anything that is directly stated about Odium.

 

I feel like the best info we can get from the visions is from the roleplay part, where Dalinar can change his actions to get more info.

 

I wonder if Dalinar can become glowy in the visions...

 

Yes, the strata is probably somehow significant, but we need to remember that Roshar's geology is different. I'm pretty sure there are no volcanoes or tectonic plates. All rock comes from the deposition then compaction of crem, which falls during highstorm. I'm not sure, but I also think there are no earthquakes (correct me if I'm wrong). So all strata should be flat. So interesting stuff is going on with Urithru. I really hope we get a picture/sketch of it in the actual book.

Kaladin is more worldly now. He sees Roshone as poor, and as someone he can give commands to. Yay more nuanced world view.

Adolin. Of course he has to investigate Sadeas' murder. I was like, of course this is happening, I was even expecting it a little. (Is there a trope of killer investigating his own kill?) But the copycat is worrisome. Why are so many people assuming it's Ghostbloods, anyway?

As for Renarin, I'm not speculating, not enough info.

Dalinar tugging on Shallan was interesting. If he doesn't get a Shardblades, he gets other perks.

Edited by yulerule
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, yulerule said:

I agree. Dalinar is getting info from the visions, but he already has shown a tendency to jump to conclusions and misinterpret them. Also, this champion info comes after he "broke" the visions a bit. Also, I don't trust anything that is directly stated about Odium.

 

I feel like the best info we can get from the visions is from the roleplay part, where Dalinar can change his actions to get more info.

 

I wonder if Dalinar can become glowy in the visions...

 

Yes, the strata is probably somehow significant, but we need to remember that Roshar's geology is different. I'm pretty sure there are no volcanoes or tectonic plates. All rock comes from the deposition then compaction of cream, which falls during highstorm. I'm not sure, but I also think there are no earthquakes (correct me if I'm wrong). So all strata should be flat. So interesting stuff is going on with Urithru. I really hope we get a picture/sketch of it in the actual book.

Kaladin is more worldly now. He sees Roshone as poor, and as someone he can give commands to. Yay more nuanced world view.

Adolin. Of course he has to investigate Sadeas' murder. I was like, of course this is happening, I was even expecting it a little. (Is there a trope of killer investigating his own kill?) But the copycat is worrisome. Why are so many people assuming it's Ghostbloods, anyway?

As for Renarin, I'm not speculating, not enough info.

Dalinar tugging on Shallan was interesting. If he doesn't get a Shardblades, he gets other perks.

I honestly thought we were seeing a new use of adhesion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, my thoughts about potential murder suspects:

-Adolin: No way. He is no murderer. He is already troubled by Sadeas death. Killing Mr. Copycorpse would be out of character for Adolin. It would undermine his father, put his family at risk and distract them from the issues of a Desolation. And Adolin only kills people when he has too.

-Renarin: If Renarin knows of his brothers action, then this might be done by him. He might want to do it to save his brother, which will probably end up breaking Adolin instead. This might in turn lead to Renarin taking the blame for Adolin, and being punished. Discovering that both his sons are murderers would also have a profound effect on Dalinar, and would affect the Kholins reputation in a very serious way. That said, is Renarin well-trained enough to take Mr. Copycorpse down in one-on-one combat? 

-Ghostbloods: I can easily see Mraize doing this for some sinister purpose. I doubt that they wish to blackmail Shallan however. Mraize seemed to be confident about the fact that he would be able to persuade her to join them by giving her information and her brothers. I don't think he would assassinate someone randomly until there was a real need for it, which there isn't yet. If the Ghostbloods did kill Mr. Copycorpse, they most likely did it to bring down the Kholins. We don't know their goal, but it wouldn't surprise me if they aren't too pleased by the leadership in Urithiru. Few Secret Societies seem to like Dalinar as the head of the KR, after all, and we already know that the Ghostbloods has a serious beef with Jasnah. 

-Ialai: I doubt it. First off, she would have to use a henchman, since I doubt she would be capable of taking Mr. Copycorpse by herself. Murdering someone is also pretty drastic, and I doubt she would be prepared to do so just yet, especially considering that it won't necessarily grant results. She doesn't know who Sadeas murderer is, and so she can't know what effect a copycat kill would have on him. Still, she is a possible candidate. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, yulerule said:

Yes, the strata is probably somehow significant, but we need to remember that Roshar's geology is different. I'm pretty sure there are no volcanoes or tectonic plates. All rock comes from the deposition then compaction of cream, which falls during highstorm. I'm not sure, but I also think there are no earthquakes (correct me if I'm wrong). So all strata should be flat. So interesting stuff is going on with Urithru. I really hope we get a picture/sketch of it in the actual book.

 

I agree here. It is widely agreed that seabed/low elevation strata being present in high mountain ranges like the Himalayas is due to tectonic shifting and continental land masses "colliding", thus pushing the lower elevation rock upward at the seams. Not sure we know if Roshar has tectonic activity or not yet. Anyone wanna find a WOB on this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A minor thing:

Quote

She glanced at a soldier who wore the gold and red of Hatham’s army. He immediately looked down and rubbed at the glyphward prayer tied around his upper right arm. Dalinar was determined to recover the reputation of the Radiants, but storms, you couldn’t change an entire nation’s perspective in a matter of a few months. The ancient Knights Radiant had betrayed humankind; while many Alethi seemed willing to give the orders a fresh start, others weren’t so charitable.

More evidence that there's going to be cultural problems with the return of the Radiants etc. No surprise at all. What I'm more curious about is what Shallan thinks about the whole "Honor is dead" thing, since she's the most religious major character.

 

Quote

“No,” Dalinar said. “Having my Radiants practice with their powers is among the most valuable resources I could purchase right now. Even if Hatham makes us pay through the nose for spheres.”

 

Dalinar being a tad possessive there, I'd say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...