[OB] Oathbringer chapters 7-9

[sooyangi]

I love that Kaladin didn't need to pull out Syl right away to intimidate the soldiers. They just knew he was dangerous. I also wasn't expecting Kaladin's and Syl's reactions. I thought Syl would be sort of embarrassed for Kaladin and Kaladin would be indignant. Shows how much I know! I like that Kaladin was embarrassed about his actions right away and didn't hesitate to take authority over the situation.

I also like that we didn't have to wait too long to get a resolution to the Hearthstone situation! Yay!

Thoughts I had while reading the chapters -

• I appreciate that Laral matured! Mentally I mean.
• I thought it was interesting that Aric described the new Parshman like Voidbringers. I mean, we know and Kaladin knows that is what they are but the people from Hearthstone had no way of knowing. I guess stories have a lot of impact!
• Where are Parshman/Voidbringers going?
• I forgot that Kaladin hadn't experienced them firsthand yet! I wonder how his first encounter with them be like? Everyone is describing them as monsters but maybe Kaladin's encounter with them won't go the way he expects it to. Was them going somewhere else because it was some kind of instinct or an independent decision they made themselves?
• I found it oddly sweet and funny that Kaladin doesn't like swinging Syl around, haha.
• Old spren? Four genders?
• Renarin continues to be interesting. I wish more people would direct the questions at him. On top of what he is, I'm sure he notices a lot more since he's always observing everything and people don't even notice he's there. And he seems to know stuff.
• Interesting that Dalinar "pulled" Shallan. Can he do that with every order? And can Shallan do that only with bondsmiths? Or can she recreate illusions based off memory/experiences from others as well?
• A murder?? I wasn't expecting that at all!
• Rlain! I miss Bridge Four. I know we've seen them in the background but I miss seeing their interactions.

[+robardin]

Just now, sooyangi said:

• A murder?? I wasn't expecting that at all!

Well, let's not jump to conclusions. Maybe this guy was just a huge Sadeas fan, despite being from Sebarial's camp, and just committed a copycat suicide in despair.

 

[Hyarmenatan]

Has anyone thought of Lift being in a great spot for going out of the closet in Azimir and opening their Oathgate? I think in the previous chapters Dalinar said the gates need to be opened locally, not from the Urithiru. 

Would love to see her traveling to meet Dalinar and how Dalinar and Kaladin deal with her as it would be a serious clash of characters. Pattern would like her, though. 

[Daishi5]

2 minutes ago, sooyangi said:

I appreciate that Laral matured! Mentally I mean.

Rlain! I miss Bridge Four. I know we've seen them in the background but I miss seeing their interactions.

1

I like that Laral saved herself and took control, it's nice to see different forms of the strong woman.  Even if she grew into a type of arrogant light-eyes, Kaladin needs to learn that he does not have to do all the saving, he needs to protect the ones who can't protect themselves.  Plenty of people will stand up and be strong when needed.

 

I am really looking forward to Kalading flying around WITH bridge four.  They get powers from him, he really needs to open up an oathgate and summon his surge-binding mini-army.  I am curious whether Jasnah or Kaladin will reach Kholinar first to open the Oathgate.  I am hoping for Jasnah just so she can surprise Navani and Dalinar in person.  If Kaladin is there, he would let them know via spanreed asap.    

[WhiteLeeopard]

Quote

“You want me,” Adolin said, “to investigate who killed Sadeas.”

.

Should have seen that coming. But still laughed so much.

Finding that second murder was so shocking. And once we saw the details it was beyond disturbing. So, Renarin knows what Adolin did...

What is up with Shallan? Urithiru creeps her out, Renarin creeps her out. Separately they might make sense, but together in 1 chapter?

About hearing she claims to be an Elsecaller...groan. The rules to follow when keeping a secret:

1. If anyone other than you knows it, acknowledge that it will eventually be found

2. No secret ever stays buried, question is when, not if. Accept it and don't fool yourself.

3. On account of 2, only keep a secret if the blowback of been found out is 10x less than the rewards you get during the time you keep the secret. 

In this case all 3 are amazingly violated. Too many people know she is a Lightweaver, it will eventually be discovered. She seems to be fooling herself that she can keep it?? Finally, the blowback when the truth is found out will be MONUMENTAL. The knights radiant are seen as horrible, lying, traitors. So lets be paragons of virtuosity, honor and truth Lets start off the refounding by lying to people so when the truth comes out all their preconceptions are reinforced. Also, lets give the Ghostbloods yet another blackmail tool. All of that for the hazy, unclear benefits of having  illusions more capable of fooling people. Sorry, but the reward is 10x lower than the price to be paid for it. Flabbergasted by the logic .

Now off to reread all the pages before commenting again.

Edited September 12, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Ansalem]

3 minutes ago, Hyarmenatan said:

Has anyone thought of Lift being in a great spot for going out of the closet in Azimir and opening their Oathgate? I think in the previous chapters Dalinar said the gates need to be opened locally, not from the Urithiru. 

Would love to see her traveling to meet Dalinar and how Dalinar and Kaladin deal with her as it would be a serious clash of characters. Pattern would like her, though. 

I'm going to try not to spoil Edgedancer, but suffice to say I think that's exactly what's going to happen.

 

Back to the general discussion: Dalinar "pulling" on Shallan to enhance her Lightweaving. It seems people are thinking this is the Bondsmith's Resonance, but could it be their Surge of Tension? I think I'm leaning toward Resonance myself, but we still know basically nothing about Tension. Though, out of all the Surges I would think the one that could do something like that would be Cohesion instead. Just based on the names.

[Ryder]

We've seen Kaladin summon Syl as a shardblade a couple of times now, but have we gotten a good description of what she looks like as a blade yet?  

[Agent34]

5 minutes ago, Ansalem said:

I'm going to try not to spoil Edgedancer, but suffice to say I think that's exactly what's going to happen.

 

Back to the general discussion: Dalinar "pulling" on Shallan to enhance her Lightweaving. It seems people are thinking this is the Bondsmith's Resonance, but could it be their Surge of Tension? I think I'm leaning toward Resonance myself, but we still know basically nothing about Tension. Though, out of all the Surges I would think the one that could do something like that would be Cohesion instead. Just based on the names.

Tension makes flexible things stiff and vice versa, like turning cloth into a blade. Cohesion allows someone to make solid things into putty.

@Ryder I believe there was a description of her in bladeform in WoR.

[Daishi5]

1 hour ago, Argent said:

 

Why are you cold, little Renarin? 

 

 

Quote

He could feel something, his ears popping, cold—even more cold than usual—blowing in from the west. And something else. An inner chill.

“Is that you, Stormfather?” Dalinar whispered. “This feeling of dread?”

This thing is not natural, the Stormfather said. It is unknown.

“It didn’t come before, during the earlier Desolations?”

No. It is new.

As always, the Storm

1

FYI, From chapter 4 Dalinar also feels some unnatural feeling of cold.

[dionysus]

Another thing I noticed, the corridors have no edges and sloping walls. I like how Urithuru is clearly designed so that people with the friction surge can get around very fast.

[ccstat]

I was having trouble remembering where "watcher at the rim" came from. It's part of this quote from the Starfalls vision (with the midnight essence).

Quote

“Every pasture needs three things,” the woman said, voice changing, as if she were quoting from memory. “Flocks to grow, herdsmen to tend, and watchers at the rim. We of Alethela are those watchers—the warriors who protect and fight. We maintain the terrible arts of killing, then pass them on to others when the Desolation comes.”

 

[Toaster Retribution]

Okay, my thoughts, without reading other replies:

*I liked how Kaladin dealt with the Roshone-situation. Also, Larals behavior was unexpected. Apparently she made the best out of her situation, although I believe that she is more troubled by her marriage than she lets on. 

*I love how Brandon makes Kaladin realize that Roshone isn't that powerful, or that evil. How perspectives can differ. 

*Oroden will be important in the back five. 

*I liked Syls and Kaladins discussion of weapon gender. 

*Shallan doesn't like Urithiru? Is it because it is so big that she fails to understand it?

*Renarin is decidedly wierd. He is more than a Radiant. I am especially thinking about two things. One, does he know that Adolin killed Sadeas? He is supposed to be a Truthwatcher after all, even though I think there is some Odium in there. The other thing is his shock when hearing of Mr. Nineshadow. Renarin defenitely knows more than he lets on. 

*I would defenitely hire Shallan as a mapmaker.

*The second murder. Who did it? Renarin? Mraize/Ghostbloods? Liss? A Herald?

*Tezim keeps being mentioned. 

[Guest Edonidd]

Is it Hetham that is the only other Ryshadium rider that we know of?  I'm terrible with names.  If it is that strikes me as strange. I had assumed the Ryshadium ponies were so particular about picking their riders because there was some type of proto radiant thing going on or something.  I had at least assumed they were of Honor somehow, and their riders would be among the most honorable.

 

 

 

His price gouging during a time of disaster seems particularly despicable right now with everything going on, but even without the present backdrop to put it in focus it doesn't come across as any sort of honorable. 

 

 

 

Syl likes Laral.  About the only unexpected/unforseen element of Kaladins POV today.

 

 

 

Didn't expect to see Rlain in Uruthiru.  I actually think the true listeners, those parshmen who can leave their "Gods" behind and find new forms free of Odium are going to be hugely important.

 

 

 

Speaking of Parshendi and the listeners, I thought Eshonai would come back to the good side.  And thought the something familiar Dalinar had seen on the eyes of Odiums champion went beyond "oh they wrrre red like maybe a parshendi voidbringer. 

 

 

 

Speaking of Odiums Champion I assume Renarin reacted to that so strangely because he is seeing the future too?  Same with how he reacts to Adolin at the end there.  Both seemed odd, but seemed like red herrings to me, thrown out there to lead us off target.  So what was up with him creeping up on Shallan and giving her the chills?  I have to think if he was bonded to anything besides a nahal bond type of spren The Stormfather would say something...  something weird is going on here, but i think its just a pile of red herring.

 

 

 

Things I'm most interested in seeing going forward.

 

1.  Kaladin going voidbringer hunting.  -  he kills only to protect.  Will he cold bloodedly murder voidbringers?  That would probably confirm they're all the way bad guys.  Or does he find a reason not to fight, like he insisted on not fighting on bridge runs?  That would probably confirm there is still more going on than we know.  Or do we get a middle ground where Kal only finds them as they're attacking a town or something?

 

2.  Renarin.  What the heck is going on there?  Does he tell on Adolin.  Does he tell daddy anything about his visions?  Once it was confirmed he was the one scratching the countdown on the walls you would think they would all be eager to know what else he sees.  Although it may not jive with their whole religious and cultural upbring, belurrfs, and lifestyle.

 

3.  Adolin.  He's gotta break if he wants a spren bond of his own.  Shows signs of it already.  Does he turn himself in?  Elthokar pardons him?  I'm betting his daddy banishes him and kicks him out of Uruthiru.  The question is, when?

 

 

 

Edit Sorry i didnt know you couldnt write wt*

Edited September 12, 2017 by Edonidd

[Duke of Lizards]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Something is up with Urithiru. Shallan can Navigate it easily by the patterns in the walls... What do you want to bet that it's easily navigable by Radiants and disorienting to normal people?

I read her ability to navigate as directly related to her hightened ability to recognize patterns.  I do, however, love the idea of Urithiru trying to disorient non-radiants as a defense!

[Ryder]

@Agent34 I thought there was a description in WoR as well, but I just skimmed through the ending and couldn't find much.  The first time she appears as a sword the description is 

Quote

Glowing, brilliant, a Shardblade emerged from the mist, vivid blue light shining from swirling patterns along its length.

  Then, when she first changes to a spear:

Quote

The weapon fuzzed to mist, then elongated and grew into the shape of a silvery spear, with glowing, swirling glyphs along the sharpened sides of the spearhead.

All it seems we know definitively is that she's silvery, glows blue, and there are some glyphs involved.

[Frostlander]

Maybe jumping to conclusions, but did we ever decide what this epigraph from Mr. T's hospital meant?

Quote

“I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw.”

Dated Shashanan, 1173, 23 seconds pre-death. Subject: a darkeyed youth of sixteen years. Sample is of particular note.

Makes me feel awkward about Kaladin's brother being named "Child of Peace." 

[StormblessDave]

Main thoughts - Love Kaladin's reveal of his KR abilities to his parents and the town, Laral seems cool, I loved the scene with his brother! I admire the way Kal is dealing with Roshone.

Shallan is being mean to Pattern , interesting interaction she had with Dalinar,

Adolin looks to be heading towards the right path, unlikely he commited the second murder. Renarin seems to know the truth about Adolin...

[Asrael]

Totally called Kaladin having a new brother and Dalinar relating the red eyes to parshendi voidbringers! 

At this point I'm inclined to hold back on a lot of the minute suspicious details being taken to allude to so much more. I'm sure a few will but my perception is that a lot of these details are amplified in significance by how brief our exposures to the book are. If I had the whole thing in my hand doubtless I'd be racing through it so quickly that a lot of these questions would be answered or fall back into obscurity too quickly for dramatic theorizing to take root.

Aldo, really glad that Kaladin isn't backsliding this book

[Nashan’Elin]

Well, there's not much that I can say that hasn't been said already, but oh well. 

• I'm loving Kaladin's interactions with Syl, it's pretty funny he was nervous about hitting things with her
• Laral's main comment about Kal having a Shardblade was that he messed up her floor, hilarious. 
• Shallan, stop being mean to your sword! 

[scifan]

8 minutes ago, Frostlander said:

Maybe jumping to conclusions, but did we ever decide what this epigraph from Mr. T's hospital meant?

Makes me feel awkward about Kaladin's brother being named "Child of Peace." 

Gotta say that re-reading that epigraph and learning about "little brother" has me more than a little concerned about a potential "final" confrontation... 

[redbishop]

Shallan was asked to trot out Pattern to discuss world affairs.  Glys was not obviously present at the time.  I feel like we're being deliberately led to distrust Renarin, and so heavy-handedly that I am becoming more and more reluctant to suspect ill of him.

That said, what reason would he have, given what we know, to turn bad?  Cageyness would be explicable since it seems as if Truthwatchers have a history of reluctance to disclose their power.

Of course, could his position on the spectrum make him more open to badspren?

[+robardin]

I look forward to Dalinar asking Adolin for status reports on his investigation into "the murders".

The most obvious reason for the copycat murder of poor Vedekar Perel (other than the "despairing fan of Sadeas - copycat suicide" theory) is that someone is setting up yet another person as the murderer, with the idea that Sadeas' murder could then be pinned on the same person due to the identical MO. Which "murderer" would conveniently die while getting captured before interrogation, or be discovered dead with a trail of blatant clues.

Since Adolin doesn't seem to be the guy to have arranged this, who could it be and why? The Ghostbloods, to get in further good with Shallan by "saving" her beau with a cover story? The Sons of Honor, to blackmail Adolin directly?

[Fulminato]

18 minutes ago, Edonidd said:

Renarin.  This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules is going on there?  Does he tell on Adolin.  Does he tell daddy anything about his visions?  Once it was confirmed he was the one scratching the countdown on the walls you would think they would all be eager to know what else he sees.  Although it may not jive with their whole religious and cultural upbring, belurrfs, and lifestyle.

don't think renarin can spoke of thing him did.
"Now, as the Truthwatchers were esoteric in nature, their order being formed entirely of those who never spoke or wrote of what they did" WoR Chapter 52

Edited September 12, 2017 by Fulminato

[Asrael]

On The copycat murder my immediate suspicion is Ialai. She was with Sadeas minutes before his death and I was really surprised to find no one found the body for 5 days. I suspect she was near enough to find out it was Adolin and has crafted this response to get at him somehow. Either set him up as a murderer or just psych him out so that he's vulnerable. More likely to set him up to fall BIG and shame Dalinar as well

[Bean Delphiki]

Surprisingly enough Roshone may have some kind of redemption...I still think he's going to die though.