[OB] Oathbringer chapters 7-9

[OathKeeper]

40 minutes ago, Mulk said:

hey all...long time lurker first time poster.

I haven't had the chance to read all 22 pages of this yet, but one possible prediction jumped out at me as I reread 7-9 and hemmed and hawed over them - could Kaladin be the one who figures out how to unlock the gate at Kholinar? Perhaps in his scouting he travels there, that this is where the Hearthstone parshmen went, progresses to the fourth oath, picks up some shardplate as a result (that's just my guess, that he gains the ability to spawn/use plate at either the fourth or fifth oath), rescues a bunch of folks and gates them away to Urithiru to evade total destruction.

I was thinking EXACTLY that. I think he spends almost the duration of the book in Alethkar, primarily in Kholinar. The rebellion will put him in an interesting position, being both light eyed and dark. 

Then whatever his success is in forming some sort of peace, and perhaps tearing down walls of prejudice, he brings that solution to Uruthiru. 

[Snipexe]

I just had an idea...

What if it was Renarin who killed the second man, because he saw Adolin killing Sadeas in a vision, and wants to try to help take the heat off of him.

Thoughts?

[Andy92]

53 minutes ago, snipexe said:

I just had an idea...

What if it was Renarin who killed the second man, because he saw Adolin killing Sadeas in a vision, and wants to try to help take the heat off of him.

Thoughts?

I think we're gonna have to tune into tomorrow's episode of CSI: Urithiru and see what happens. 

[Snipexe]

17 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

I think we're gonna have to tune into tomorrow's episode of CSI: Urithiru and see what happens. 

I just realized that this is like an exact plot of a CSI episode, or something like it.

Edited September 19, 2017 by snipexe

[+Wax]

I think the biggest thing that I picked so far, is the sheer size of the effort required.

This leads to speculation on what will be the end of book 5 and 10.  

Will book 5 be the banishment of Odium or the start of the organised fight vs him.

Then book 10 will be the banishment of Odium from Roshar, or even further the splintering of Odium while being chased by worldhoppers on Braize/Roshar?

Right now it's a case of people running around like headless chooks.

 

[maxal]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

Yes. Yes I would. Come on Maxal. You and I have butted heads before, but that's mainly on very personal issues. I've also stood up against what I've seen as unfair treatment of you specifically. 

But my post wasn't an attack, I stated within the first line because I feared it would be interpreted as such  I am picture perfect image of calm right now, I swear. I didn't like the terminology employed because I felt it reduced my argumentation. I mean, saying someone is bias is an easy way to say the argumentation isn't worth much because it isn't rational enough.

It however wasn't against you specifically, though you were unlucky enough to be the first one to mention it. In fact, I was surprised you'd be the one to say it.

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

Everyone is biased in one way or another. Me, you, Brandon, everyone. I was by no means meaning to brush your opinion aside, or dismiss the evidence. In fact, the evidence you've presented is overwhelmingly in favor of Adolin already being a Radiant, so why isn't he? 

Here's my opinion. I think that the Stormfather may be a big enough deal that he's bypassing a rule against Radiants that hasn't been expressed, but is implied by the opinions we've seen from spren in the story. I think that the only reason Adolin isn't already a Radiant is because he is bonded to a Shardblade. 

All of your evidence, from connection to Radiants, upbringing, mindset, all of it, says that Adolin should already be a Radiant. Other than Dalinar and Gavilar, have we seen a single Radiant who already had a Shardblade? 

It's seriously nothing personal, and I agree that a good chunk of people who say Adolin shouldn't be a Radiant have reasons that are counter to the story and they don't fit. My only issue was your wording. Saying that an argument against Adolin is an argument against character growth is to broad a statement, and that was my issue of bias. 

I see three possible paths for Adolin, two of which end with him as a Radiant. 

1) He give up his Blade and becomes a Radiant through drawing a spren the Normal way. I think this is unlikely. 

2) He keeps his Blade and awakens it, becoming a Radiant through unconventional means. This is the path I most want to see. 

3) He retains his Blade and fails to awaken it, repelling any spren that would have tried to bond with him, and remains a non-surgebinder. This is, in my opinion, the most likely scenario, even if I'd much rather see option 2.

Actually, I don't think I ever argued Adolin already was a Radiant... If I did, I honestly do not remember  Thoughts being forever evolving, I currently do not think his current status is "Radiant" or "proto-Radiant". I think his current status is "normal human being". What I have argued for is him having the right ground basis to grow into one, shall he decide to walk this path. I think this is something we can both agree on.

You are however raise a valid question why isn't Adolin already a Radiant?

I have thought of him being bonded to his Shardblade, but I felt the evidence we had wasn't conclusive enough. As you rightly pointed out, being bonded to a Shardblade did not prevent neither Dalinar and Gavilar from being chosen. Admittedly, it was by the Stormfather within both cases, but then we had Renarin who was a proto-Radiant while being bonded to a Shardblade. Admittedly, his Nahel bond precedes his Shardblade, but still... I thus never thought there was enough of a case to be had for Adolin being rejected on the basis he has a Shardblade. One opinion I had was he was rejected because he is bonded to THIS specific Blade, but this too isn't really relying on anything solid.

I'll admit some of my argumentation lacks substance. I may have badly chosen my words or failed to express my thoughts properly. See, the thing is, each time I read readers being firmly against Adolin becoming a Radiant, it never feels like it is for the right reasons. Alternate paths same readers often suggest (and I am not pointing to anyone in particular, just in general, this hardly is the first time we discuss this), lack depth, lack substance, lack... well.. growth and more importantly, they never broach the topic I feel needs to be discussed. Why? Apart from "not wanting it", how do we reconcile it based on what we know of Brandon's magic system? And this is the question very few people arguing for "normal" Adolin has tried to broached. 

As for your three paths, here are my thoughts:

1) I agree this one is unlikely. I also agree it doesn't currently look very attractive in terms of pure story telling.

2) I agree this is the most interesting path because it is both different and it offers decent growth for his character,

3) While I agree Brandon may very well be going with this one for the mere reason readers are completely against Adolin becoming a Radiant, I do find it the least interesting path. It is plausible, if a rational is given and it is explained Shardbearers cannot become Radiants except if the Stormfather bonds you (I could agree with this reasoning), but it doesn't offer any growth opportunity for Adolin's character and this has been my major issue with this path. This is were you say I am biased and this is were I cannot agree: where is the growth? Taking apart the fact readers don't want Adolin to become a Radiants for reasons which aren't main narrative related, how is it interesting for Adolin to just do exactly what he has been doing for the past two books? How is this path offering decent growth, decent progression and, more importantly, a story worth reading? It could work, on a lesser character, but on the guy we've been reading for two books? Nobody has convinced me yet it could.

2 hours ago, OathKeeper said:

@maxal I want to first give you all due respect. Your posts color you as smart, creative, and contemplative. And your reasoning for Adolin forming a nahel bond are solid for the most part. 

That said, here are a few points of contention:

1.) There's a logical fallacy in your reasoning about probability. All the evidence you give for him being chosen can lead one to conclude that he is far more likely to be chosen than a random other person, but not more likely to be chosen than NOT to be chosen. Think in terms of a rare hereditary trait like a woman bearing twins. If her mom had twins and her grandma had twins, she is more likely to have twins than the average pregnant woman. Even so, the probability of having twins is low, just far higher than average. Adolin is more likely than some random dude, but we actually don't know if he is more likely to be bonded than to not be. We know too little about the process of spren choosing humans to say either way. Sorry to be nitpicky, but I studied stats and probability in college and this fallacy is a pet peeve.

2.) My more important point is based on character arc. I don't blame you for not seeing a good non-radiant arc for him. It's up to each of our imaginations, after all. So here's what I see: everyone around Adolin is growing in terms of magic and oaths. He has to combat feelings of inadequacy more and more as the others grow in competence, including his brother that he used to have to protect. So Adolin finds other ways to grow. He represents to the reader the truth that a non-radiant can be equally involved in fighting Odium. He makes choices relating to his murder of Sadeas. Either he owns up and takes responsibility or he keeps it hidden and is discovered. His relationships are strained. If he's exiled he finds a way to contribute to the cause from the outside. If he's forgiven, he is given an important assignment as highest non-radiant commander. At this point there are a thousand things Brandon can do to bring Adolin to a new place from where he started. We ALL understand how character arcs work and we all want him to have one. 

You acknowledge that those in the opposite camp from you don't want him to be static, but then you go on to insist that the only way for Adolin to be dynamic is to bind a spren. 

If you really gave an honest effort to imagine a cool story of growth and change for Adolin, without surgebinding, I bet you could do it. Seriously, take 5 minutes and try it. Dude is INVESTIGATING A MURDER HE  COMMITTED. There are a lot of cool growth opportunities for him without uttering a single ideal or oath.

About point number one, this is actually a point worth making. I would say Brandon did phrase it in ways which made me reason out if your family are Radiants, if you are suitable, then it is practically a done deal. I might have read too much into it, but it is the only reasoning which explains why all Kholins were chosen, especially Renarin. Practically all known Radiants are Kholins, so while not improbable, it make me think being chosen isn't a completely random element. There is a purpose to it. Still worth to keep in mind.

About point number two, I just do not currently see the story unfolding within this specific way. Adolin already is a Shardbearer fighter: him accepting it is perfectly acceptable to be... a Shardbearer fighter seems... well... quite unimaginative. What's the point of even writing Adolin is he ends exactly where he started with the exception he had a small bump within the middle? I fail to see the purpose: I love the character, but there is nothing I hate more than static characters and I really do not see much growth within your proposition. New places is a pretty vague term and the highest ranked non-Radiant commander seems exactly a repetition of his current status. There is also the tiny fact of... well.. Adolin doesn't seem to care about his family being Radiants... Readers expect him to care, but really what if he doesn't? Now where does this brings us?

Finally, you think I never tried to find a decent non-Radiant story arc for Adolin? Within four years? Oh, I have tried, but it all ends up in quite boring ways or it becomes so bittersweet I would never want to read it. It took me four years to find on non-evil theory for Elhokar I actually thought had potential. Mind, it does not mean it does not exist, but all I have read currently doesn't really get my interest. Of course, other readers perspective may differ, but the overwhelming negative reaction towards Adolin becoming a Radiant and the lack of support to provide plausible and interesting alternative has been... well... disappointing, but again, I can't argue against other readers. I can however argue against being against the idea for reasons which aren't related to the world at hand, stuff like "a story needs a normal character" because stories can be whatever their authors want them to be.

[Asrael]

At this point in my week I basically melt into a puddle of anticipation and become utterly useless...

[ParadoxicalZen]

On the wait for the next chapters, how hyped I am on a scale from 1 to Even...I just can't

[Calderis]

37 minutes ago, maxal said:

It however wasn't against you specifically, though you were unlucky enough to be the first one to mention it. In fact, I was surprised you'd be the one to say it.

I meant the word for its meaning, not as a loaded term meant to invalidate your opinions. I understand the way it can be misapplied. 

37 minutes ago, maxal said:

Actually, I don't think I ever argued Adolin already was a Radiant... If I did, I honestly do not remember  

You didn't. My point was that all of your completely valid evidence, in aggregate, points to that conclusion. 

37 minutes ago, maxal said:

1) I agree this one is unlikely. I also agree it doesn't currently look very attractive in terms of pure story telling.

Agreed. 

37 minutes ago, maxal said:

3) While I agree Brandon may very well be going with this one for the mere reason readers are completely against Adolin becoming a Radiant, I do find it the least interesting path. It is plausible, if a rational is given and it is explained Shardbearers cannot become Radiants except if the Stormfather bonds you (I could agree with this reasoning), but it doesn't offer any growth opportunity for Adolin's character and this has been my major issue with this path. This is were you say I am biased and this is were I cannot agree: where is the growth? Taking apart the fact readers don't want Adolin to become a Radiants for reasons which aren't main narrative related, how is it interesting for Adolin to just do exactly what he has been doing for the past two books? How is this path offering decent growth, decent progression and, more importantly, a story worth reading? It could work, on a lesser character, but on the guy we've been reading for two books? Nobody has convinced me yet it could

And this is why I used the word bias. 

Yes most people don't give good reasoning. Their arguments are based on flawed reasoning from either "too many Kholin Radiants" or "Adolin shouldn't be a Radiant." For some it seems they just don't like Adolin. 

Incomplete reasoning on their parts though does NOT invalidate this progression arc. Adolin has plenty of room for growth. 

One that I think would be a very interesting storyline, would be if Elhokar dies, and due to the rioting in Kholinar Aesudan and the unnamed Heir (the fact that we don't know the name of Elhokar's child is telling to me) leaves the line of succession open to... Dalinar. Except Dalinar is leading the Knights Radiant. For Alethkar to be separate from the Knights a Radiant should not be at its head and who's next in line? Adolin. 

Adolin thrust into the leadership of Alethkar during the end of the world has plenty of room for growth. And that's only one possibility. 

I want the blade awakening. I do. Whatever Brandon gives us though, I'm sure Adolin will not be static or forgotten. 

[OathKeeper]

26 minutes ago, maxal said:

About point number two, I just do not currently see the story unfolding within this specific way. Adolin already is a Shardbearer fighter: him accepting it is perfectly acceptable to be... a Shardbearer fighter seems... well... quite unimaginative. What's the point of even writing Adolin is he ends exactly where he started with the exception he had a small bump within the middle? I fail to see the purpose: I love the character, but there is nothing I hate more than static characters and I really do not see much growth within your proposition. New places is a pretty vague term and the highest ranked non-Radiant commander seems exactly a repetition of his current status. There is also the tiny fact of... well.. Adolin doesn't seem to care about his family being Radiants... Readers expect him to care, but really what if he doesn't? 

@maxal, Now I really hope I'm right, just to show you one of the thousand satisfactory growth arcs possible that don't include Adolin surgebinding. 

JK, I just like that story best for him. Yes, yes I am also thinking in terms of character growth and I still find that the most interesting AND plenty dynamic. I can't imagine all the specifics of what growth that would entail, but then, that's Brandon's job to think up, not mine. But two guaranteed categories would be internal/emotional growth and enormous changes to all of his defining relationships. Again, HE'S INVESTIGATING THE MURDER HE COMMITTED. You still can't imagine any fun development for his character without him bonding a spren?

It seems like character growth to you can only be measured in terms of one's ability to kill people or use magic... 

But seriously come mid-November we'll see if he's surgebinding, definitively not, or if it's open ended for future books. If it's the first, I hope you quote me on this in an I-told-you-so-post. If it's the second, that's what I'll do to you in a good-natured way, I swear. If it's the third, I'll just concede out of boredom with the topic.

[ParadoxicalZen]

The betas must be having a good chuckle over our theorising and thoughts, as I swear I'm hearing diabolical cackling in the distance 

[Pattern]

16 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

Fair warning: I'm not going to be the fastest poster tomorrow. I'm going to rely on where my true talents lie: speed reading. 

Me neither. Will be working then. After work speed reading party then...

9 hours ago, maxal said:

It isn't a matter of explaining why he would become a Radiant, more a matter of explaining why he isn't.

Until now, the reason for him not becoming a Radiant would be just being not broken. That might change soon.

4 hours ago, maxal said:

but then we had Renarin who was a proto-Radiant while being bonded to a Shardblade. Admittedly, his Nahel bond precedes his Shardblade, but still... I thus never thought there was enough of a case to be had for Adolin being rejected on the basis he has a Shardblade

That might also be an explanation for Renarin's odd behaviour.

 

Regarding Renarin: Glys, Glyph.
Dalinar wanted to persuade Renarin to join the devotaries, but he always rejected. I bet Renarin can read and write none the less (this might be stated directly somewhere, i am not finished with my reread, yet), without being an ardent. Stormwardens also kind of predict the future and in chapter 60, Dalinar's inner monologue says:

Quote

No man should try to know the future, nor lay claim to it, for it belonged only to the Almighty himself. And Dalinar wondered how stormwardens could do their research without reading.

That's all about that for now, needed to write nightly insights down quickly. Perhaps more later...

Oh, and wasn't Renarin supposed to practice surgebinding with Shallan. Bets on the chapters today.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Pattern

[retrorocket1]

Maybe the reason Adolin hasn't bonded a spren yet is because he hasn't embodied the first oath yet, I can see hints of both edgedancer and stoneward in him which is specific to his particular order, assuming he will become a radiant. But if he hasn't embodied the first ideal no matter how much he resembles the ideas that embody that ideal he will never become a radiant.

The way I see it, adolin is putting the destination before the journey, he takes the most direct path even if such a path is dishonorable or unjust.

And I am only mildly thinking about him killing sadaes. That to me seems like something that a knight radiant could do. But and i say but, I don't believe he had the authority to make that call.

additionally when they were initially betrayed by sadaes, adolin was practically ignoring the losses of his armies so that he could save dalinar from the shardbearer. Again moving in direct fashion ignoring the cost and instead focusing on the destination of rescuing dalinar. < that scene is also why I think Adolin might be a stoneward.

Also in the arena with the four shardbearers, or rather before, he was so focused on the end goal of collecting shards he didn't really think about how his words could be used against him so he had to fight 4 shardbearers. Also in the arena is another example of why i think he might be a stoneward. He was willing to stand against impossible odds to protect his brothers life again "I will stand".

I realize this post is a bit disorginized but basically my thoughts on the matter is

TLDR: that adolin isn't bonding a spren because he is focused on the destination before the journey and that adolin might be a stoneward

[+Wax]

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20170919T23&p0=152&msg=Oathbringer+10-12+release&font=cursive&csz=1

timer

[Pattern]

5 minutes ago, axcellence said:

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20170919T23&p0=152&msg=Oathbringer+10-12+release&font=cursive&csz=1

timer

Slow torture. Each week until November 14th (or 16th for me).

[ParadoxicalZen]

How many chaptersvare there in Part 1? And eek, soon!

[+Wax]

21 minutes ago, ParadoxicalZen said:

How many chaptersvare there in Part 1? And eek, soon!

32, i understand plus one prologue

Edited September 19, 2017 by axcellence

[JoyBlu]

Hi ya! I know I am late to the game for these chapters, but I was lying in bed looking forward to reading tomorrows chapters and I just had to get up and post my thoughts on last weeks chapters.  My daughter broke her arm and had to have surgery last week so I was away from my computer a lot.  I tried posting once from my phone, but I lost the post and after spending so much time on it I grew frustrated.  I took notes on my reactions to these chapters when I first read  them.  I haven't read anything online about these chapters yet, so I'm sure there will be lots of redundancies and my post is already old news but I felt the need to document them anyway. I hope to get to read the entire thread sometime in the future.

• Chapter 7:  A Watcher at the Rim

Quote

I did not die.

I experienced something worse.

OK -- so I feel like I am having whiplash here. I just can't make up my mind as to who wrote this.  My first thought was that Gavalir wrote it.  Sanderson would bring him back to life. Then I thought -- that can't be. Now I think that in world Oathbringer is being written by one of the Heralds who went to purgatory instead of dying.  But which one?  But at the very beginning of WoK it says that they did die.  I am sure that one of you has the answers out there. I'm more confused than ever. I'm giving up guessing. (for now anyway)

Super excited that this chapter starts right where we left off with Kaladin. Why are all these POV's split up into chapters that are concurrent?  Seems odd to me.  But I really like the different chapter names.  Maybe that is why.  Maybe it is to get smaller snippets of the Oathbringer Preface. Maybe it is so I can find these parts later faster when I want to reread them?

Roshone is conscious after all.

I loved Syl's reaction "He probably deserved that!" I guess she will stay with Kaladin a bit longer.

Kaladain Happy?  Really.  Wasn't expecting that adjective to describe him.  Still not seeing any happyspren though so I'm sure if I believe it.

Lirin treating Kal as a child.  I think that we all experience that to some extent when we go back to our parents/siblings. It is so easy to slip back into those old roles. Kaladin is very human.

Quote

Curiously, Kaladin’s father just lowered his head and closed his eyes.

So there was much debate as to whether or not Kaladin was going to use Syl or not to "prove" himself.  I really didn't want him to have to use Sly as a shardblade -- but how this came about in response to Roshone's question “And what,” Roshone said, “makes you think you can order anyone around, boy?” Seems natural and not egotistical.  I'm surprisingly ok with how this played out.  Although I am with Lirin and still shaking my head.

 

Quote

You,” Kaladin said, “are a cheat, a rat, and a murderer.

That is my favorite line this chapter.  It was almost as satisfying as the punch!

SPANREED!  After such a long discussion about this last week it was answered so clearly.  I laughed so hard when I read this because all that speculation was answered so quickly and completely.  I would have never understood the significance of this tiny explanation had it not been for all the discussion, so thank you for making this sentence meaningful.

Laral! Laral! Light-eyed Laral is on-screen.  I love how she is respected by those in her house and how she says she doesn't need saving.  Very interesting use of the word Save here. 

Quote

"I wanted to save you, Laral.” (Kaladin)

“And what made you think I needed saving?” (Laral)

“You take after your father. Always feeling like you need to save everyone" (Laral)

 

I also found it interesting Kaladin's openness with her.  He really did slip back into his old, carefree self with her.

 

Quote

“What you’ve become,” Lirin continued, “is a killer.

Killer Kaladin.  I wonder what Lirin will say if/when Kaladin starts to heal with stormlight.  I really want Kaladin to heal that boy they are working on like the shoemaker was able to do.

ORODEN!!!!  What?  So I saw some threads about a younger sibling for Kaladin -- but I didn't ever read them.  I guess I better go back and read them.  I'm guessing that there will be some story arc in Stormlight books 6-10 where Oroden is a major character and where Oroden will get to see peace even if everyone else dies.  Do we know why (the logic behind) his name means peace?

 

Still nothing really new on the Voidbringers

 

Overall I enjoyed this chapter quite a bit.  The body language in this chapter conveyed so much.  I could feel the tenseness from the very beginning of the chapter when Lirin put his hand on Kaladin's shoulder to the end when Kaladin hovered and flew out of sight. You could sum up the chapter in these words.

Quote

grabbing him by the shoulder

Kaladin stepped one foot back, falling into a guard position.

Kaladin held out a hand toward her, palm forward, in a quieting motion

He met the eyes of the guards

Stand down, men

The soldiers shifted

more battle poise than you.

nodded their heads in agreement.

Nobody followed, not even his parents

Everything grew still. Townspeople froze, gaping

“Great,” Kaladin said, pushing past her in the hallway. (just as he is pushing past their relationship)

 

 

Looking up as to where the phrase "A watcher at the Rim" was mentioned before.  It was in WoK in a Dalinar vision.

Quote

"Every pasture needs three things," the woman said, voice changing, as if she were quoting from memory.  "Flocks to grow, herdsmen to tend, and watchers at the rim. We of Alethela are those watchers--the warriors who protect and fight.  We maintain the terrible arts of killing, then pass them on to others when the Desolation comes."

-- Way of Kings, Chapter 19 Starfalls

 

SPREN OBSERVATIONS for Oathbringer Chapter 7: A Watcher at the Rim

angerspren

rotspren

awespren (blue ring)

COLOR OBSERVATIONS for Oathbringer Chapter 7: A Watcher at the Rim

red lightning

pale green eyes (Laral)

tail of black, peppered with blond (Laral's hair)

sapphire

blue ring (awespren)

feeling his eyes bleed to blue (Kaladin)

 

• Chapter 8:  A Powerful Lie

Yay.  Shallan.  I am actually excited to read her now after all this anticipation.

She is pretending to be an Elsecaller.  Did I know that already?  Of course she is pretending.

Quote

Power was an illusion of perception

My favorite quote from this chapter.

Quote

Much of the stone exposed thin lines of strata. Beautiful lines of varied hue, like layers of cloth stacked in a merchant’s shop.

So obviously this layered stone is significant.  Is  it a form of artisans script somehow? Is it its own language? A map? What is it made of? The mistborn reader me really wants to know its chemical structure.

Quote

I wish I could see it all.…” (Dalinar)

This quote echo's Shallan's drawings of the "impossibly high" tower.  Is this a sign that the task they have to perform is impossibly high and they can't see the big picture of what needs to happen.  What are the boundaries of Urithiru anyway.  I know it is tall/high but what is on the edges/outskirts of the city?  Is it on a big plateau or can they journey from it?

OK -- The Map is AWESOME!!!!  I love the possibilities of the "powers" converging. Are Shallan & Dalinar next to eachother in the circle I saw once? I need to go find that.  Can you only connect with someone you share an attribute with or can any of the ten orders form a new combination? It appears that Dalinar hasn't forgotten Navani, so that speculation that he forgot his "wife" or whoever he is married to is probably null now.  It was a fun idea anyway.

Ten Kingdoms/Ten Cities/Ten Oathgates/Ten Heralds/Ten books in the Stormlight Series.  I'd list them all here but I'm sure someone has already done it.

Renarin's reaction to the "man with nine shadows"  It sounds like Renarin has seen this before or is at least familiar with it.  I recall Jasnah's prologue when her shadows went all in different directions.  I still don't understand those connections -- but Renarin seems to.

 

What???? Another MURDER??????  Who??????

 

SPREN OBSERVATIONS for Oathbringer Chapter 8: A Powerful Lie

coldspren

windspren

COLOR OBSERVATIONS for Oathbringer Chapter 8: A Powerful Lie

Gold & Red (Hatham's)

varied hue (stone)

wide reddish strata

yellow ones (strata lines)

blond hair, patched with yellow (Renarin)

plains shone gree

red eyes

 

• Chapter 9: Threads of a Screw

Shallan again.  I would have really expected these last two chapters to be combined.  But they did leave us on a cliff hanger.  Good thing I didn't have a week to speculate of who died.  I never would have guessed . . . . . . glad I wasn't attached to Vedeker Perel from Sebarial's Army.  I wonder if he is a random guy or if we will get some Sebarial flashbacks with him in them.

How long would the map have lasted if Dalinar and Shallan both stayed there?

again we are reminded of Adolin's hurt wrist/hand.  I'm not even sure if I remember how it was hurt -- but I sure haven't forgotten that it is.

Quote

The strata here spiraled, twisting around the floor, ceiling, and walls like the threads of a screw. It was striking enough that Shallan took a Memory of it for later sketching.

Obviously she will sketch this in the future and find the hidden message in it. I mean the entire chapter is named after this future sketch. Again I wonder how similar this is to Artisans script in WarBreaker. 

OK -- so Adolin is not the Assassin (this time)

Navani is very interested.  Will she be the one to solve it?  Has someone found the sword Oathbringer yet?  What is our day count since Sadeus was found?

Seriously? Blushing? A love triangle between Adolin, Shallan, and Renarin? I've been rereading WoR and seen/noticed a few other times where this is being set up. I wonder how much they have been "practicing" their skills together.

Adolin is now the Investigator.  Loved how he referred to the king's saddle investigation. Lots of people speculated this would happen.  Who witnessed Sadeus's murder that would know how to place the body? I don't even remember.  Better go look that up.

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Storms, I miss Jasnah. She would have known how to spin this, to keep opinion from turning against us in court.

You won't have to miss her for long Dalinar.  I'm still looking forward to Jasnah's reaction to Dalinar & Navani's wedding.

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He (Adolin) stalked off, and Shallan hurried after him. Renarin remained in the room, looking down the hall after them until Shallan got far enough away that—over her shoulder—she could no longer see him.

Renarin watched Shallan chase after his brother.  How does that make him feel?  Yup another weird love triangle getting set up.

 

SPREN OBSERVATIONS for Oathbringer Chapter 9: Threads of a Screw

shamespren (white and red flower petals)
 

COLOR OBSERVATIONS for Oathbringer Chapter 9: Threads of a Screw

orange strata

red strata

brown strata

white and red flower petals (shamespren)

sapphire eyes (Renarin) (does this mean blue sapphire?)

light blue eyes (Adolin)

[ccstat]

3 hours ago, JoyBlu said:

Seriously? Blushing? A love triangle between Adolin, Shallan, and Renarin? I've been rereading WoR and seen/noticed a few other times where this is being set up. I wonder how much they have been "practicing" their skills together

Great thoughts for most of the chapter. This part, though, doesn't seem likely at all too me. As I read it, the blush was for being startled, not for anything about Renarin. Shallan still thinks he's weird and creepy.

[Agent34]

@JoyBlu Kaladin won't be able to heal others with stormlight like Ym (the shoemaker/cobbler) due to his Order not being able to access the Surge of Progression. On a similar topic Lightweavers and Bondsmiths don't share any Surges/attributes so I'd say Dalinar's ability is with any Radiant.

[Calderis]

5 hours ago, retrorocket1 said:

Maybe the reason Adolin hasn't bonded a spren yet is because he hasn't embodied the first oath yet, I can see hints of both edgedancer and stoneward in him which is specific to his particular order, assuming he will become a radiant. But if he hasn't embodied the first ideal no matter how much he resembles the ideas that embody that ideal he will never become a radiant.

The way I see it, adolin is putting the destination before the journey, he takes the most direct path even if such a path is dishonorable or unjust.

The first ideal is so vague that it isn't limiting in any way whatsoever. We have a WoB that a machiavellian would be welcome in both the Skybreakers and Elsecallers. That is a literal "ends justifies the means" philosophy. 

We've been fed Teft's interpretation of the First Oath in book. It is not the only interpretation. 

[Steeldancer]

I am so ready for these chapters. 

[maxal]

22 hours ago, Calderis said:

Incomplete reasoning on their parts though does NOT invalidate this progression arc. Adolin has plenty of room for growth. 

One that I think would be a very interesting storyline, would be if Elhokar dies, and due to the rioting in Kholinar Aesudan and the unnamed Heir (the fact that we don't know the name of Elhokar's child is telling to me) leaves the line of succession open to... Dalinar. Except Dalinar is leading the Knights Radiant. For Alethkar to be separate from the Knights a Radiant should not be at its head and who's next in line? Adolin. 

Adolin thrust into the leadership of Alethkar during the end of the world has plenty of room for growth. And that's only one possibility. 

I want the blade awakening. I do. Whatever Brandon gives us though, I'm sure Adolin will not be static or forgotten. 

As I said within the other thread, I do not like Adolin as a Highprince. To be honest with you, I downright hate it. There is no progression I can foresee which is one I'd think I'd like reading which goes with this speculative story arc. Obviously, other readers have very different ideas and opinions, but of all the story arcs I have thought of, this was about the one I enjoyed the least. 

Adolin as a political leader really isn't something I wanted to read, but I understand readers disagree with me. There isn't much more I can say except I feel pretty alone right now.

22 hours ago, OathKeeper said:

@maxal, Now I really hope I'm right, just to show you one of the thousand satisfactory growth arcs possible that don't include Adolin surgebinding. 

JK, I just like that story best for him. Yes, yes I am also thinking in terms of character growth and I still find that the most interesting AND plenty dynamic. I can't imagine all the specifics of what growth that would entail, but then, that's Brandon's job to think up, not mine. But two guaranteed categories would be internal/emotional growth and enormous changes to all of his defining relationships. Again, HE'S INVESTIGATING THE MURDER HE COMMITTED. You still can't imagine any fun development for his character without him bonding a spren?

It seems like character growth to you can only be measured in terms of one's ability to kill people or use magic... 

But seriously come mid-November we'll see if he's surgebinding, definitively not, or if it's open ended for future books. If it's the first, I hope you quote me on this in an I-told-you-so-post. If it's the second, that's what I'll do to you in a good-natured way, I swear. If it's the third, I'll just concede out of boredom with the topic.

Nope because they all involve him taking paths I personally find uninteresting, but YMMV.