Beast_c_a_t Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Something about the aluminum guns and bullets has been bothering me... They couldn't work. At least not more then one shot, because of the galling problem with aluminum. The barrel would be ruined and the cartridge would be jammed in the chamber. The problem with galling is why brass is almost exclusively used for cartridges. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling As a professional machinist and amateur engineer I can thinks of ways to make it work without using other metals, but they all rely on technology that is far advanced of that in Scandal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Shard Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 The book does state it is an aluminum alloy, albeit one that is enough aluminum to remain allomantically inert. If you notice, Wax mentions the possibility of it containing eka-boron, I believe (it's been a while, but we looked into it.) This means it is an aluminum and scandium alloy. http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21663831.2014.985855 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast_c_a_t Posted September 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 The alloying wouldn't prevent galling, it would remain a serious problem as long as the aluminum content remained high enough to still be "aluminium". Galling is a problem anytime you have two metals moving against each other, and aluminium is one of the most problematic. The barrel and chamber could be lined with hardened steel or coated with a heat resistant low friction coating like some ceramics, but that causes other problems like defeating the point of an ALU gun or being well beyond the technology level of the steam age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Huh. Given the description in the Wikipedia article, I guess simply being aluminum coated wouldn't help at all, since it's a surface-to-surface type of problem. Tell me, does this also eliminate the possibility of literal "silver bullets" of the type often depicted as ideal ammo to use against the undead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 I don't think that aluminum necessarily needs to be the dominant metal within the alloy, all that we know is that it is a component. Brandon's been vague on how specifically alloys of aluminum work and which are inert, probably for this very reason. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 3 hours ago, Windrunner said: I don't think that aluminum necessarily needs to be the dominant metal within the alloy, all that we know is that it is a component. Brandon's been vague on how specifically alloys of aluminum work and which are inert, probably for this very reason. I think this is key. Does the properties of aluminum overwhelm and block another metal's characteristic in the direct vicinity? We all ready know that metal in flesh tends to be much more difficult to push or pull using Allomancy, so what if aluminum is encased in another metal? Does that mean that it can not be pushed or pulled because that metal is touching aluminum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan_sedai Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 On 9/12/2017 at 2:25 PM, TheOrlionThatComesBefore said: I think this is key. Does the properties of aluminum overwhelm and block another metal's characteristic in the direct vicinity? We all ready know that metal in flesh tends to be much more difficult to push or pull using Allomancy, so what if aluminum is encased in another metal? Does that mean that it can not be pushed or pulled because that metal is touching aluminum? does that mean that instead of being inert, aluminum could actually be just too heavily invested to be acted upon by allomancy (like someone's soul?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 2 hours ago, ethan_sedai said: does that mean that instead of being inert, aluminum could actually be just too heavily invested to be acted upon by allomancy (like someone's soul?) Doubtful. If it were already invested to the point that it couldn't be pushed allomantically, it wouldn't be able to be used as a feruchemical identity dump either. It would be to full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan_sedai Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 On 9/15/2017 at 8:48 PM, Calderis said: Doubtful. If it were already invested to the point that it couldn't be pushed allomantically, it wouldn't be able to be used as a feruchemical identity dump either. It would be to full. what I meant is is it like blood, where it is contact with metal, you can't Push on it allomantically, but you can still store Feruchemal attributes in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormingTexan Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Clearly Brandon should have used aluminum slingshots instead. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 On 9/12/2017 at 4:25 PM, TheOrlionThatComesBefore said: I think this is key. Does the properties of aluminum overwhelm and block another metal's characteristic in the direct vicinity? We all ready know that metal in flesh tends to be much more difficult to push or pull using Allomancy, so what if aluminum is encased in another metal? Does that mean that it can not be pushed or pulled because that metal is touching aluminum? Aluminum does create a slight bubble. Someone with a hat of aluminum is still immune to emotional allomancy coming from directly below them. I wouldn't say that it's completely impossible to say that a light coat over top would be protected as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezrien Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 This is a pretty cheap answer, but what if Aluminum isn't susceptible to galling in the cosmere? Maybe all aluminum has a little investiture, which, among other effects, reduces friction. We have seen investiture do that. You might even say aluminum guns are just too 'awesome' to gall. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17th Splinter Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 It could also simply be that everything was aluminium except for the inside of the barrel. The metal there wouldn't be able to be pushed because it is encased in aluminium, while the other metal could reduce galling. Who knows? maybe the guns had to be fixed/cleaned after a certain number of shots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hwiles Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 Aluminum guns in the Cosmere contain enough aluminum that they are reportedly more valuable than gold by weight in an industrial revolution-era economy. In the 19th century, gold was worth about $700 per kilo and aluminum was priced at about $1200 per kilo. This means aluminum guns in the Cosmere are probably more than 50% aluminum, and @Beast_c_a_t has a legitimate metallurgical point. That said, i dont think we've seen an aluminum gun in the Cosmere fired more than a dozen times before it was retired from service indefinitely, either due to being confiscated, lost, or replaced. The service life on the Sets guns is basically half of one fire-fight...seriously, Miles loses like 6 in AoL off the top of my head...quality control and product longevity is not one of their engineering concerns. I doubt they've ever used one long enough in the field for failure to be a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahak Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 On 12/09/2017 at 2:45 PM, Beast_c_a_t said: The alloying wouldn't prevent galling, it would remain a serious problem as long as the aluminum content remained high enough to still be "aluminium". Galling is a problem anytime you have two metals moving against each other, and aluminium is one of the most problematic. The barrel and chamber could be lined with hardened steel or coated with a heat resistant low friction coating like some ceramics, but that causes other problems like defeating the point of an ALU gun or being well beyond the technology level of the steam age. I'm not sure a society with electric arc furnaces is still in the steam age. Since they also have ceramic bullets (The Hazekiller rounds), I'd suspect the aluminum bullets have a ceramic coating or sabot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixQuill Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I don't know if this is helpful but during my last reread of AoL I found this quote from Ranette Quote "How did they work?" she asked. "Stronger than lead, but much lighter. Less immediate stopping power, obviously, but they'll still tear thenselves apart on hitting. Could be very deadly if they hit the right spot. And that's if the wind resistance doeant slow the bullets too much before they reach their target. The effective range would be way down. And they'd be highly abrasive to the barrel." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast_c_a_t Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 On 9/24/2017 at 2:11 PM, Dahak said: I'm not sure a society with electric arc furnaces is still in the steam age. Since they also have ceramic bullets (The Hazekiller rounds), I'd suspect the aluminum bullets have a ceramic coating or sabot. Electric arc furnaces were invented in the late 1800's, and the higher quality steel they produced helped start to the modern industrial era. A ceramic bullet would simply be made from a fired piece of molded clay, a low friction ceramic coating however requires more advanced technology like vapor deposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast_c_a_t Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 On 9/19/2017 at 6:25 PM, Spoolofwhool said: Aluminum does create a slight bubble. Someone with a hat of aluminum is still immune to emotional allomancy coming from directly below them. I wouldn't say that it's completely impossible to say that a light coat over top would be protected as well. I would think that the "area of effect" of ALU occurs in the cognitive realm, and wouldn't effect a "physical realm" power like steel pushes. Otherwise ALU would be seriously OP, if all that was needed to stop physical alloymancy is an ALU cover or surround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 13 hours ago, Beast_c_a_t said: I would think that the "area of effect" of ALU occurs in the cognitive realm, and wouldn't effect a "physical realm" power like steel pushes. Otherwise ALU would be seriously OP, if all that was needed to stop physical alloymancy is an ALU cover or surround. Personally I think aluminum fudges things in the spiritual realm, so it would effectively prevent any power from crossing its field of effect. I think this is most likely based on what aluminum is known to be resistant against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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