Way of Kings Annotations

[ccstat]

The first of Brandon's annotations for The Way of Kings just went up on his website. The introduction says that he only wrote annotations up through chapter 12, but I'm sure there will be plenty of interesting things to learn. For example, the first post discusses the endsheets, including some early versions of the surgebinding chart which have marked differences from the final chart we ended up with. I never realized that the front endsheet was supposed to be a mural made of stones and gems.

Edited September 9, 2017 by ccstat

[Pagerunner]

Very interesting to see how the Surges and Essences have changed. The old Double Eye diagram makes some things clear that I hadn't quite scene, with respect to the Essences as Elements. Maybe it's just because I've played around with expanded Elemental magic systems before, but I think it's interesting the four 'traditional' elements hold the four corners, the ones adjacent to them are related the closest cardinal (Metal is a form of Stone, etc), and in the middle are two elements that are alive. It's a bit of a shame how Fire and Crystal have switched spots, and Water has been switched out for Blood. (I like things simple like that). And, obviously, Wood and Flesh have been transposed, as well.

The Surges have changed drastically. Awakening! Time! Stasis! (Wait, that seems like time.) Energy! (That's a little broad, and seems like more of an element anyways.) I think I like how the concept of Surges have been refined, so they're more connected to specific forces, whether real or imagined.

Unfortunately for the glyph translation effort, I don't think we can use those names to decipher the glyphs. Unless Taln and Shin are also Alethi words. (And the Windrunner pendant is referred to as the Jes glyph, so I don't think that fits with one of the Surges being Jez either.)

[Jofwu]

I totally missed this. Can't believe more people aren't talking about it!

[Ammanas]

Just now, jofwu said:

I totally missed this. Can't believe more people aren't talking about it!

I think most of the sharders are destracted by the Tor chapter releases. Also, to my knowledge, Brandon hasn't officially announced it so it has not got very much attention.

[ccstat]

On 9/8/2017 at 10:34 PM, Pagerunner said:

The Surges have changed drastically. Awakening! Time! Stasis! (Wait, that seems like time.) Energy! (That's a little broad, and seems like more of an element anyways.) I think I like how the concept of Surges have been refined, so they're more connected to specific forces, whether real or imagined.

Unfortunately for the glyph translation effort, I don't think we can use those names to decipher the glyphs.

Agreed, though I did notice that the surge for movement is named Rosh. I'm pretty convinced that is part of the decision to name the place Roshar. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by ccstat

[Harakeke]

On 9/8/2017 at 8:34 PM, Pagerunner said:

Unfortunately for the glyph translation effort, I don't think we can use those names to decipher the glyphs. Unless Taln and Shin are also Alethi words. (And the Windrunner pendant is referred to as the Jes glyph, so I don't think that fits with one of the Surges being Jez either.)

I agree. Some of draft glyphs are a little bit simpler than the final published forms, so there are perhaps a few things to be gleaned about their construction -- but not much. Interestingly, the glyphs for <Edgedancers> <Dustbringers> and <Lightweavers> underwent substantial revisions shortly before publication. Something to keep an eye out for in future annotations would be whether the orders themselves had different names in the corresponding draft. If so, this would suggest that the Surgebinding glyphs are direct English transliterations. If on the other hand "Edgedancers", "Dustbringers", and "Lightweavers" were in already the draft text, it would suggest that only the corresponding Rosharan word was changed, and that the Surgebinding glyphs are in "native" Alethi. 

(I suspect the latter is the case, since the handful of glyphs that have been fully deciphered have all been fully Rosharan.)

[Argent]

3 hours ago, Ammanas said:

I think most of the sharders are destracted by the Tor chapter releases. Also, to my knowledge, Brandon hasn't officially announced it so it has not got very much attention.

Ah, the double double whammy. Announce Oathbringer previews, then reveal some 200 pages of Oathbringer previews, then reveal some annotations. It's the balls and cups magic trick, only while you were tracking where the ball is, Brandon has switched it for another cup. And the original cups are now tents. Also, there is an assassin dressed in white stalking you. 

I like that the original name for the element of stone was Taln. As @Pagerunner pointed out, the four "traditional" elements being in the corners, while their... composites are between them, that's a nice touch. It's also interesting that the original version had time manipulation in the magic, when that doesn't seem to fit in our current understanding of any of the Rosharan magics (unless you count futuresight / visions). I also like the basic Double Eye - it's a pretty shape. I was pretty excited about using the names of all the elements in our translation effort, but yeah, it doesn't look like that's feasible. Still nice to see some of them show up as roots for some names we are familiar with, such is Ish in Ishar and Rosh in Roshar. It would be interesting to monitor those and see if they end up being more meaningful than we assume at the moment (maybe Roshar moved! maybe Ishar can't sleep! the sky's the limit).

[Harakeke]

I had another thought: most fan interpretations associate the large glyphs in the Double Eye with the Radiant Orders, (this seems like a reasonable assumption -- especially given the cover art for Edgedancer) but according to these annotations, they are actually the Essences. Denoting a Radiant Order requires one Essence and the two adjacent Forces. I'm wondering if the elaborate "sword form" glyphs could be broken down into those three components, which together make up the glyph for the Order.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Harakeke

[Eilemelie]

3 hours ago, Harakeke said:

I agree. Some of draft glyphs are a little bit simpler than the final published forms, so there are perhaps a few things to be gleaned about their construction -- but not much. Interestingly, the glyphs for <Edgedancers> <Dustbringers> and <Lightweavers> underwent substantial revisions shortly before publication. Something to keep an eye out for in future annotations would be whether the orders themselves had different names in the corresponding draft. If so, this would suggest that the Surgebinding glyphs are direct English transliterations. If on the other hand "Edgedancers", "Dustbringers", and "Lightweavers" were in already the draft text, it would suggest that only the corresponding Rosharan word was changed, and that the Surgebinding glyphs are in "native" Alethi. 

(I suspect the latter is the case, since the handful of glyphs that have been fully deciphered have all been fully Rosharan.)

Assuming the mappings of pre- to post-publication glyphs is correct, (some are obviously so while other leave a bit more leeway for interpretation) we see some other poignant and intresting changes as well. While the surges and heralds remain without changes the symbols of the [orders? essences? both?] have changed arond quite the deal. I suppose I'll still refer to them with the names of the orders for simplicity despite the questions that have been brought up earlier in this thread. For clarity: I will be refering to the positions that they prior to publication held.

 

The Windrunner glyph was moved to the Elsecaller position.

The Skybreaker glyph was moved to the Windrunner position.

The Dustbringer glyph was moved to the Lightweaver position.

The Edgedancer glyph was moved to the Skybreaker position.

The Truthwatcher glyph remained in place.

The Lightweaver glyph was moved to the Edgedancer position.

The Elsecaller glyph was moved to the Dustbringer position.

The Willshaper glyph remained in place.

The Stoneward glyph remained in place.

The Bondsmith glyph remained in place.

 

This begs the question of why these late changes where six of the glyphs positions were swapped around were made. The colous make it seem as though the asociated gemstones all remained in place as well. On the 2003 complex chart the only elemental properties, which seem to correspond to the soulcasting properties whe know today, to have changed is the exchange of wood for flesh and the other way around, of fire for crystal and the other way around and of wather for blood. None of these are mapable in any way to the changes of the glyphs. The elemental properties seem very closely conected to the essences which makes me think that the glyphs despite what we have now been told do connect to the orders. Either that or the choices are mostly aestethic, which makes little scense considering that they are writing signs that certain other members of this forum have managed to work out some logic behind. One thing in particular that I find odd is the changed position of the Windrunner glyph when it is obviously styled as a crown and the position of Jezrien isn't changed.

 

[Jofwu]

Yes, the strangest thing is how "orders" are paired with different Surges.

I definitely get the sense that the "orders" are actually the ten essences. We know that Vorinism puts a lot of weight in the ten essences, and the double eye is still around. Shallan refers to them as the "ten fundamental glyphs". It doesn't make sense that the ten fundamental glyphs would represent Radiant orders or some other obscure thing that they don't know much about.

My guess, especially after seeing a bit of how this developed, is that the main symbols represent the essences, and that the words for the essences were derived from the names of the Heralds. So like the Windrunner glyph is something like "jez", meaning air.

The problem with this is making sense of how everything got shuffled so much between the 2010 image and the final form. It suggests he changed around a lot of Herald/essence names last minute. e.g. Jezrien/Jez was originally going to be Nale/Nal (or whatever Nalan's essence is in Alethi).

[Jofwu]

It strikes me that many of the final glyphs are suggestive of their essence. Skybreakers strongly resembles smoke. Truthwatchers strongly resembles plant life. Lightweavers is shaped like a heart (blood). Windrunners is definitely windy. Dustbringers kind of makes me think of fire and sharp edges of Edgedancers make me think crystal. The sides of Elsecallers makes me think of oil. Not so sure about the last 3.

[PeterAhlstrom]

Indeed, there was a lot of swapping around at the last minute to get everything working right with the magic. This is actually why the Way of Kings audiobook gets the Ars Arcanum chart wrong—it was using a version that was messed up between rounds of changes.

[skaa]

On 9/10/2017 at 1:38 PM, Harakeke said:

I had another thought: most fan interpretations associate the large glyphs in the Double Eye with the Radiant Orders, (this seems like a reasonable assumption -- especially given the cover art for Edgedancer) but according to these annotations, they are actually the Essences.

Yeah, I remember having to explain the connection between the Essences and the large glyphs of the Double Eye in a pre-WoR theory thread of mine about spren. But I'm pretty sure I wasn't the one who first discovered it; anyone who thought about the Essences deeply enough would have seen the connection to the large glyphs.

 

On 9/10/2017 at 5:12 PM, Eilemelie said:

Assuming the mappings of pre- to post-publication glyphs is correct, (some are obviously so while other leave a bit more leeway for interpretation) we see some other poignant and intresting changes as well. While the surges and heralds remain without changes the symbols of the [orders? essences? both?] have changed arond quite the deal. I suppose I'll still refer to them with the names of the orders for simplicity despite the questions that have been brought up earlier in this thread. For clarity: I will be refering to the positions that they prior to publication held.

 

The Windrunner glyph was moved to the Elsecaller position.

The Skybreaker glyph was moved to the Windrunner position.

The Dustbringer glyph was moved to the Lightweaver position.

The Edgedancer glyph was moved to the Skybreaker position.

The Truthwatcher glyph remained in place.

The Lightweaver glyph was moved to the Edgedancer position.

The Elsecaller glyph was moved to the Dustbringer position.

The Willshaper glyph remained in place.

The Stoneward glyph remained in place.

The Bondsmith glyph remained in place.

 

 

8 hours ago, PeterAhlstrom said:

Indeed, there was a lot of swapping around at the last minute to get everything working right with the magic. This is actually why the Way of Kings audiobook gets the Ars Arcanum chart wrong—it was using a version that was messed up between rounds of changes.

 

Oh wow.

More than three years ago I started wondering what was up with the Surge pairs associated with each Essence. It seemed clear to me that the Surge of Illumination should be connected to the Essence Lucentia because of its association with the eye, and couldn't imagine how it could possibly connect to blood. After that I noticed how most of the other Surges had similar issues. What has Transportation and Soulcasting got to do with fat? What does growing plants and sliding around got to do with crystal?

I ended up creating an alternative "corrected" chart for the Essence-Surge connections and even made some alternative Orders. Unfortunately, I had no idea how to insert Sinew and Pulp, as well as the Surges of Adhesion and Growth, into that chart so I explained those away as being "Divine" Essences and Surges that were meant to be separate from the others. Basically I speculated that Tanavast did some tweaking of the Essence-Surge connections before giving humans access to them via Honorblades. (See this theory thread for details.)

So... all that might have just been debunked. The connections that seemed weird to me were that way just because of some last minute swapping done "to get everything working right with the magic".

I... I'm just gonna sit in a corner and cry for a while. TT_TT

(Just kidding.)

Anyway, at least the pre-publication Lightweaver glyph was in the Lucentia position, so that might mean Brandon did intend Lightweavers to be there. Hurray!

Edited September 13, 2017 by skaa

[+Extesian]

@skaa even your wrong theories are some of the best on here. That one particularly

[skaa]

@Extesian You are too kind, but I am just a lowly Skaa with weird ideas.

One thing I noticed about the 2003 Double Eye is that some of the Order Resonances seem to be related to the 2003 "Surges".

For example, Shallan's memory ability fits the "Thought" Surge connected to Water (what we now know as Blood).

If the Skybreakers (or whatever name the Order of judgemental Knights had in the 2003 version) were indeed originally supposed to be in the Air/Zephyr position (as suggested by the pre-publication chart), then "Time" fits their ability to figure out the dark past of people; they might actually be able to literally see people's past actions.

And obviously the Truthwatchers' future sight makes more sense if they had a Time Surge (as they did in the 2003 version).

I'll try to think of more connections later.

Edit: More connections (this time to the Orders in general, not just to their Resonance)!

The Edgedancer glyph is in the Vapor/Smoke position pre-publication, meaning they had the Wind Surge, which certainly does fit the the imagery of Edgedancers moving "like a ribbon on the wind" (as described by Nalan).

As noted earlier, the Lightweavers were originally in the Lucentia position, so in 2003 they had Energy and Movement. @Pagerunner calls "Energy" broad, but Lightweaving itself is pretty broad given that it can involve any waveform, not just light. I think "energy" technically fits Lightweaving more than just "illumination".

Movement... if that Surge had the same Realm-transitioning effect as Transportation, that would mean the 2003 version of the Edgedancers were basically the Stormlords in my made-up Orders ("lording over the skies and the Realms"). And also, Rosharan Lightweavers originally could Elsecall but not Soulcast. Interesting.

Speaking of Soulcasting/Transformation, is that what the Thought Surge was, since Soulcasting involves Cognitive entities?

Edited September 13, 2017 by skaa

[PeterAhlstrom]

Also keep in mind that like the Allomantic Metals charts were not always based on correct understanding, the Double Eye is an imperfect Rosharan attempt to categorize and put in order natural principles that existed before the categorization did. And natural phenomena don't always fit in neat little boxes. In fact, some of the things in the "The Ten Essences and Their Historical Associations" chart are highly suspect.

[Confused]

On 9/9/2017 at 9:58 PM, Argent said:

It's also interesting that the original version had time manipulation in the magic, when that doesn't seem to fit in our current understanding of any of the Rosharan magics (unless you count futuresight / visions).

I theorized a few years ago that time manipulation is still part of a Truthwatcher's magic, comparing it to Allomantic time bubbles. @Argent didn't like the theory then and made a good counter. I based my conclusion on the WoR multi-Shardbearer duel. 

A more recent post borrowed from @skaa's theory of the essences to explain the KR orders in terms of Radiantspren (representing the Surges), "ideals," and essences. I posited there (and still believe) that Radiantspren are a combination of two "lesser" spren - pre-Shattering sentient spren. That's why Radiantspren can Focus two separate powers. Brandon first talked about this stuff in two 2010 WoBs I cite there.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Confused

[QuantumHarmonix]

I find it interesting that all that is said about the rear endsheet is what we already knew about it being an in world stained glass window. Makes me wonder how important its revelation has to be. It's always confounded me that the front endsheet was methodically worked out and the rear endsheet hasn't been. Even when there are so many good questions. Is it depicting some listener forms? Does it show something about creating fabrials? I think one "order" symbol looks like a crab, so are they all depicting greatshells or possibly creatures with gemhearts? Hopefully we will get something in the next book that relieves this obsession of mine. 

[The One Who Connects]

On 9/19/2017 at 7:40 AM, QuantumHarmonix said:

It's always confounded me that the front endsheet was methodically worked out and the rear endsheet hasn't been. Even when there are so many good questions. Is it depicting some listener forms? Does it show something about creating fabrials? I think one "order" symbol looks like a crab, so are they all depicting greatshells or possibly creatures with gemhearts?

The main issue is that we knew what the front Endsheet was(Surgebinding), and we never knew what the read Endsheet was until recently.

The Rear Endsheet is a Voidbinding Chart.