[OB] Oathbringer Chapter 1-3

[+Spicker]

This might be relevant to the squire discussion:
 

Quote

INTERVIEW: Mar 22nd, 2014

WoR Signing Report - Argent (Verbatim)

ARGENT

Shallan has this awesome Memory thing going on, Jasnah has this geolocation thing, Kaladin is a really good fighter - are those just their traits, or is there something supernatural going on?

BRANDON SANDERSON

There is something supernatural about those. Each Order... Well, how about this. If you look at scholars' interpretations, there are some scholars who think that these things are not supernatural, and some who think that they are. But, if you look, many Lightweavers had powerful mnemonic abilities.

ARGENT

So it's definitely tied to the Orders?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It's tied to the Orders. Now, I am not going to say that you've got them all 100% correct, but each Order, there are things that come with Order, things that do not add up from simple the "you get this power plus this power," there is something else going on. And I would say that for Windrunners, watch the number of squires and the power of the squires... these are abnormal for the Windrunners.

ARGENT

And each Order's squires are somehow different from the other Orders'?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yeeeaaaa... some Orders do not have them.

So does this mean that there is something that is going on for these windrunners that is abnormal from others, or that the windrunners are abnormal in general? What about these windrunners powers are abnormal? The power and size is more or less?
Also is there any other WOB's that talk about what other radiants have squires?

[Demiandre]

Well spotted @KiManiak Maybe the Oathgate also serves as a point of emission, an irregularity through which the connection between the Squire and the KR still acts ?

But a more plausible reason I see is that the interaction fades over distance AND time.

[+Wax]

6 hours ago, Andy92 said:

Read the first two chapters, will have to catch the third later today.

Any odds that Odium was able to "capture" Sadeas's Cognitive Shadow after death, and that's his champion? 

Well, given Dalinar's vision at the end of the last book and the golden light, I wouldn't be surprised if it is the captured shadow of Gavilar.

[FollowYourMuse]

2 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

This is worth thinking about. The Shin secretly worshipping Odium. 

Dalinar, Sebarial, Aladar, Sadeas and Hatham are confirmed to be in Urithiru I think. Roions warcamp probably went there too. It could be that Adolin isn't counting Kholin, Sebarial, Aladar and Roion because they csme there first. If so, there are eight Highprinces in Urithiru right now. 

That was what my count was, which is why the number confused me, and I wonder if some of the Highprinces just brought their armies and not the full warcamps?

Actual Quote:

Quote

 Four entire warcamps full of people had frantically crossed the Shattered Plains to Urithiru

 

[hypatia]

Perhaps there is another Radiant nearby Lopen we haven't recognized yet.

[flying_shadow]

Wonder who that could be?

[KiManiak]

18 minutes ago, Calderis said:

By the sound of things, there was a lot of back and forth through the oath gate, which means a lot of time on the shattered plains side for Kaladin and/or Shallan. With this information that scene has to have happened at a point that Kaladin was on the Stormseat side. 

The scene with the Lopen regrowing his limb starts with the king having just woken from his drunken stupor and after word had just gotten to Sebarial’s camp about the re-discovering of Urithuru.  This is likely the day after the assassination attempt.  I’m not saying it’s impossible that Kal was jumping back and forth from Urithuru to the Shattered Plains at that time, but I do find it highly unlikely.  Finally, Dalinar notes that it wasn’t until a week later that the people of the warcamps started to arrive at the oathgate.  

I find this all rather questionable.  Unless there is some continuity error, I think there has to be something more to Kal's squires' powers not working at that point in time.

[Calderis]

4 minutes ago, hypatia said:

Perhaps there is another Radiant nearby Lopen we haven't recognized yet.

That wouldn't work. Squires gain access to their power through their bond to the Radiant. He would have to be a squire to both in order to gain power from another Radiant.

Edit: @KiManiak and the fastest way to get word back to the war camps that the people should come to Urithiru would have been to have Kaladin go back through the oath gate and fly across the plains. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Calderis

[KiManiak]

15 minutes ago, Demiandre said:

But a more plausible reason I see is that the interaction fades over distance AND time.

Time could be a factor, maybe.  1 day or so away from the Radiant could be defensible as an excuse.  I just don't accept Dalinar's off-handed comment as sufficient at this point in time.  I do believe we need more.

[Toaster Retribution]

@FollowYourMuse You are right, the quote is wierd. The most logical explanation is that Adolin for some reason doesn't count Kholin, Aladar, Sebarial or Roion people since a lot of those arrived before anyone else. In this case, it would mean that Sadeas, Hatham, Ruthar and Bethab were the four others, since Thanadal and Vamah stayed behind. Or Adolin counts in Kholin amd the others, and in that case, Sadeas and Hatham just sent out small scout forces.

[Musica]

*Sorry if I'm repeating things other people wrote*

 

1. Am I the only one kind of hoping that one of the surgeons who will treat Dalinar would be a young (maybe apprentice) Lirin??  Though I don't know if it works with the timeline (do we know how old Lirin is?)

2. Like someone else here pointed out, the golden light Dalinar sees around Odium/Odium's champion in his vision made me think about the vision he saw in WoR which the Stormfather said he did not send. It kind of makes me think that maybe Odium is influencing or trying to somehow influence the visions (a la Ruin in Mistborn) to make Dalinar question what he sees/doubt/interpret things wrong...

3. Young Dalinar is such a badass! (And crazy. And a bit of a bully) and I love seeing this side of him!

4. Is the Kaladin chapter we already have only a part of the chapter or all of it? I hope its not all of it, cause I've been waiting to see what happens after he reachs  Hearthstone for too storming long!

5. Am I the only one who really hopes Adolin WON'T become a Radiant (even if it's by awakening his dead sword rather than bonding some other spren)? We have enough Kholin Radiants. I also really hope he won't become Odium's Champion (too predictable). Can a Radiant be corrupted and turned, while still maintaining their Nahel Bond? I know it probably won't happen, but either Dalinar or Kaladin turning to the Dark Side and becoming the Champion for Odium would be sweet;)

 

Anyway, great start! Why isn't it November already=/.. if only I was at least capable of waiting a few weeks to read a bunch of chapters together it would've been easier, but I have a serious problem with delaying gratification..lol

[+Wax]

So, there is a km/mile range on squire-radiant link?  Mobile tower/TV tower like?  "Hello, can the radiant just stand still, while I walk towards it?  It is south-east isn't it?  Can he fly 200m further south please..."  

 

 

[Nathrangking]

HOLY HELL THE BLACKTHORN IS EPIC!!!! The supposed champion of Odium on the other hand is less than impressive though the unmade are pretty awesome too. 

[KiManiak]

6 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Edit: @KiManiak and the fastest way to get word back to the war camps that the people should come to Urithiru would have been to have Kaladin go back through the oath gate and fly across the plains. 

No, the fastest way to get word back to the war camps would be via spanreed.  Having Kaladin teleport and then fly all the way back would be a great waste of resources and time.

[Calderis]

2 minutes ago, KiManiak said:

No, the fastest way to get word back to the war camps would be via spanreed.  Having Kaladin teleport and then fly all the way back would be a great waste of resources and time.

*face-palm*

Edit: yeah. That was a stupid thought. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Calderis

[retrorocket1]

he could also have a range of something along the lines of 100km as far as squires go, for all we know he could fall for hours or even days before getting out of range.

[vividox]

So, did anyone else get the sense that the writing quality wasn't up to standard? I got the feeling I was reading a Rithmatist/Reckoners book, not a Stormlight book. Small sample size, obviously. 

[vividox]

45 minutes ago, KiManiak said:

Re: Squires only having powers in proximity to their Radiant

Okay, so this seems off to me.  We see at the end of WoR that the Lopen is able to grow back a limb while Kaladin is likely half way on the other side of Roshar in Urithuru (this is assuming that Kaladin’s conversation with Dalinar at Urithur is happening simultaneous to when the Lopen is growing back his arm in little Herdazia back at the Shattered Plains).

Alethkar is closer to Urithuru than the Shattered Plains are.  Why should the squires’ powers stop working at a lesser distance?

I have to believe (barring a continuity error, which I am going to assume it is not) that there is something else going on.  Maybe it’s not distance, but Kaladin completely running out of Stormlight (like we were shown in the preview Kaladin Chapter that Brandon did in some of his readings)?  Or something else.

(Or The Lopen just breaks all conventional rules of squiredom...)

Perhaps when Kaladin ascends to a new ideal and gains the ability to have squires, all his squires get an immediate burst effect, followed by a diminished latent proximity effect.

(Kind of similar to how the Aons in Elantris were "holding back" the Investiture that wanted to break through)

Edited August 29, 2017 by vividox

[Jaconis]

42 minutes ago, Demiandre said:

But a more plausible reason I see is that the interaction fades over distance AND time.

Yes, I agree. It seems completely reasonable to me. Lots of things seem to be fading with time here. Stormlight from gemstones, Kaladin's light eyes after the Third Ideal, just to name a couple. 

[Ward]

Wild unsubstantiated theory:

Dalinar "The Blackthorn" is Odium's champion.

Think about chapter 3. Think of the poetry of having new Dalinar shudder at the figure in chapter 1. Think about the Sleepless foreshadowing on the back of WoK. "One of them will destroy us."

[Toaster Retribution]

1 minute ago, Ward said:

Wild unsubstantiated theory:

Dalinar "The Blackthorn" is Odium's champion.

Think about chapter 3. Think of the poetry of having new Dalinar shudder at the figure in chapter 1. Think about the Sleepless foreshadowing on the back of WoK. "One of them will destroy us."

Scary thing is, I can actually see this happening. I am actually starting to think that Dalinar might go bad. 

19 minutes ago, vividox said:

So, did anyone else get the sense that the writing quality wasn't up to standard? I got the feeling I was reading a Rithmatist/Reckoners book, not a Stormlight book. Small sample size, obviously. 

It felt a bit off. I still loved it, but yeah. I blame it on things feeling different when you read them on a computer screen than on a book page. 

[+Wax]

Red herrings or not?

Aladar is always kept 2 dimensional.  No dedicated scenes with him after 2 books. Something brewing?

Now the visions are interactive VR!  What will Dalinar figure out using the other visions?

34 years ago Dalinar felt the thrill.  When did this desolation start or did the last one ever finish? Shades of the final empire...

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by axcellence

[Musica]

20 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

HOLY HELL THE BLACKTHORN IS EPIC!!!! The supposed champion of Odium on the other hand is less than impressive though the unmade are pretty awesome too. 

Guess now we know where he got his name from *snicker*

Sadeas: "You look like a thornbush."

Dalinar: "a black thornbush."

Sadeas: "our esteemed commander, the thorn in our enemies' side. I thereby declare you the Blackthorn!"

Good thing those arrows were black lol

 

As for the squire discussions- Windrunners are all about honor, loyalty, protecting and leading others. Honorspren are all about bonds and binding things/people together (i hope I'm not confusing with the Bondsmiths). I always took it to mean they have more squires because they tend to inspire loyalty from others, and people naturally gravitate to them- which seems a likely necessity to become squires. 

Think about it, Kaladin led more than one escape attempt while he was a slave, which means the other slaves, often bitter, beaten men if not downright criminals, were willing to believe in him and follow him. Same with his squad in Amaram's army, and of course, Bridge Four. 

I don't think fighting ability is the "passive attribute" of the Windrunners, but rather their..personal gravity? Haha 

[+Spicker]

7 minutes ago, Musica said:

As for the squire discussions- Windrunners are all about honor, loyalty, protecting and leading others. Honorspren are all about bonds and binding things/people together (i hope I'm not confusing with the Bondsmiths). I always took it to mean they have more squires because they tend to inspire loyalty from others, and people naturally gravitate to them- which seems a likely necessity to become squires. 

This is what I tend to think, also.
Would it be fair to assume that other orders that lean more towards Honor will be more likely to have squires than ones that lean towards cultivation?
And would squires in other orders have the same proximity limitations that the windrunners seem to have?

Edited August 29, 2017 by Spicker

[+ElephantEarwax]

37 minutes ago, vividox said:

So, did anyone else get the sense that the writing quality wasn't up to standard? I got the feeling I was reading a Rithmatist/Reckoners book, not a Stormlight book. Small sample size, obviously. 

I felt something off also, but I think that it is just excited for the new canon.