How to kill a gold compounder?

[+ElephantEarwax]

23 hours ago, XenosHg said:

Ruin once gave Spook another power just because a sword passed through another person and into him.

So, how hard is it to spike gold allomancy/feruchemy? Can you make it fast? Can you make it instant? Can you steal his powers during the fight and use them immediately, if you know the skill and have, for example, speed feruchemy?

The other person was a thug and the sword was pure enough steel to work as a spike. You could remove the power and use it as soon as you spike yourself.

Edited August 28, 2017 by ElephantEarwax

[hoidhunter]

I would follow him until he went to sleep.  Then fill his room with concrete and seal the doors and windows shut.

Or

Lure him into a pitfall trap with really weak sides. No crawling out, and if he uses his dynamite trick he 'll just bury himself. Once he's down there you can pick your method of disposal.

Really, the key here is detainment. Once they can't get away...you can just wear them down.

I would suggest tracking them to the place where they live. Digging 25 ft deep dead falls with barbed steel stakes outside of each exit.  Setting the building on fire with teams of gunmen waiting in a perimeter. The idea is to force them to wait it out in the flames...or flee into a pitfall...all the while being riddled by bullets.

Btw...all of these are assuming that i am not invested...nor can I hire anyone who is.

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by hoidhunter

[FiveLate]

On 8/27/2017 at 0:03 AM, Yata said:

Of course there are more efficient way on doing so, for example Rip their stomach out will prevent them from burning gold and therefore compound more than they have already (it's possible to remove some ingested goldmind too).

The metals only have to be in contact with the physical body...not ingested...afawk.

On 8/27/2017 at 1:11 PM, Kalinovsky said:

Would dropping an atomic bomb on their head work?

 

On 8/27/2017 at 1:14 PM, Calderis said:

Are they already actively healing? 

Cause if so, I think they'd live. 

I will have to disagree there.  Being at ground 0 for even a very small explosion like little boy vaporized everything on a molecular level at ground 0.  This means not only is the body broken down to basic molecular components, but also any metal minds.  If you somehow survived this stage and materialized you body from basic elements somehow, you would then have to survive the implosion wave as well.  The shear amount of stored healing is astronomical...even with compounding you would need tons of gold due to the energy storage limitations of your f gold, which would be vaporized at the same time.

As an example, you get shot, exploded etc...it is a single moment event, you have an atomic bomb dropped, your going to have to keep healing until your out of the radiation zone, after being vaporized, then imploded.

I'll show you guys the math if you want, but I truly think nothing could survive a modern nuclear bomb.

[Agent34]

Could drowning be an effective execution method? Breath is stored in a separate metal to health so perhaps gold healing doesn't cover something like that.

[Calderis]

59 minutes ago, Agent34 said:

Could drowning be an effective execution method? Breath is stored in a separate metal to health so perhaps gold healing doesn't cover something like that.

It wouldn't allow him to breathe, but it would repair the damage from the lack of oxygen. 

You'd have to get used to the instinctual terror of drowning, but you'd live as long as you got out before your reserves failed. 

@FiveLate yeah, I suppose athe bomb would do it then. I was think that active healing would prevent some of the damage by healing as it occurred, like how miles legs healed as they broke s they never appeared to, but instant vaporization probably wouldn't allow that. 

[Yata]

21 hours ago, FiveLate said:

The metals only have to be in contact with the physical body...not ingested...afawk.

yeah I know but the Stomach is where you probably hold the not invested Gold to compound later, burn an extenal metalmind (and I am quite sure you have to at least pierce your body with it to burn) would mean that the Metalmind will reduce his volume, probably be more loose and could simply fall or be removed easiier.

[The One Who Connects]

On 8/29/2017 at 6:11 AM, Agent34 said:

Could drowning be an effective execution method? Breath is stored in a separate metal to health so perhaps gold healing doesn't cover something like that.

I believe that Miles was healing his dying brain cells from a lack of oxygen at one point. This would essentially rule out downing for a very long time.

On 8/29/2017 at 2:34 AM, FiveLate said:

Being at ground 0 for even a very small explosion like little boy vaporized everything on a molecular level at ground 0.  This means not only is the body broken down to basic molecular components, but also any metal minds.

On 8/29/2017 at 7:16 AM, Calderis said:

I was think that active healing would prevent some of the damage by healing as it occurred, like how miles legs healed as they broke s they never appeared to, but instant vaporization probably wouldn't allow that. 

I doubt you could actually store enough to survive an atom bomb, so don't take this the wrong way. However, if we go on a theoretical level.. Assuming your body heals fast enough to not actually vaporize, would Metalminds entirely inside your body be protected from the vaporization effect? I'm going in the same vein as "x-rays not piercing a lead-lined case." Assuming unlimited healing, would your body actually be a strong enough barrier to protect internal Metalminds?

If your body can act as a barrier like that, you could potentially survive in lava/acids/all kinds of things that would otherwise melt your Metalminds by having them be internal, making it much harder to kill a Gold-Gold Twinborn.

On 8/27/2017 at 3:00 PM, Oversleep said:

Exploit the weakness, if there's any - e.g. aluminum in wounds prevents healing, therefore an aluminum shrapnel bullet in the brain should do the trick

I'm gonna argue your specific example. We know that gold compounders can survive beheading, so what is stopping say.. Miles from ripping off his own head and regrowing one that is shrapnel free? Granted, you could just fire into his chest so that he can't rip it off like that, but I'm genuinely curious about why we think headshots would work.

[Oversleep]

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

On 27.08.2017 at 10:00 PM, Oversleep said:

Exploit the weakness, if there's any - e.g. aluminum in wounds prevents healing, therefore an aluminum shrapnel bullet in the brain should do the trick

I'm gonna argue your specific example. We know that gold compounders can survive beheading, so what is stopping say.. Miles from ripping off his own head and regrowing one that is shrapnel free? Granted, you could just fire into his chest so that he can't rip it off like that, but I'm genuinely curious about why we think headshots would work.

See, once he has aluminum shrapnels in his brain, he's toast. Yeah, he can continue living since healing will keep him from dying, but such extreme brain damage will render him comatose. So he'll just just lay there until healing runs out. The key here is removing brain function from equasion.

Notice this is very different from beheading - he could regrow removed head, but he can't heal the wounds with aluminum in them.

[FiveLate]

1 hour ago, Oversleep said:

See, once he has aluminum shrapnels in his brain, he's toast. Yeah, he can continue living since healing will keep him from dying, but such extreme brain damage will render him comatose. So he'll just just lay there until healing runs out. The key here is removing brain function from equasion.

Notice this is very different from beheading - he could regrow removed head, but he can't heal the wounds with aluminum in them.

I just see a Wolverine style expulsion of the metal as the body heals around the wound, surface pressure on the shrapnel increases. As the pressure increases the intruding object is forced out.

Your way would only work if the aluminum had a field around it that everything in its range was nullified by.

Edited August 31, 2017 by FiveLate

[+ElephantEarwax]

3 minutes ago, FiveLate said:

I just see a Wolverine style expulsion of the metal as the body heals around the wound, surface pressure on the shrapnel increases. As the pressure increases the intruding object is forced out.

You way would only work if the aluminum had a field around it that everything in its range was nullified by.

I believe it does, like how an aluminum lined hat stops emotional allomancy.

[FiveLate]

10 minutes ago, ElephantEarwax said:

I believe it does, like how an aluminum lined hat stops emotional allomancy.

Well in that case I think it just creates a "null" zone based off the shape of the hat...an Allomancer directly below might be able to influence....would make a great Brandon question really...

If a soother or rioters radiates their intent, it should be a straight line function, so any aluminum in the path should stop it.  Caps are not spherical only conical, so correctly positioned you should be able to avoid them.

Edited September 1, 2017 by FiveLate

[+ElephantEarwax]

8 minutes ago, FiveLate said:

Well in that case I think it just creates a "null" zone based off the shape of the hat...an Allomancer directly below might be able to influence....would make a great Brandon question really...

That's an odd thought...about the allomancer under. I'll look at aluminum use next time I read through Wax and Wayne.

Quote

 Since aluminum can shield against emotional Allomancy, those who can afford to, often wear hats with aluminum lining. -Coppermind

I think it wouldn't work though.

Edited September 1, 2017 by ElephantEarwax
more

[FiveLate]

24 minutes ago, ElephantEarwax said:

That's an odd thought...about the allomancer under. I'll look at aluminum use next time I read through Wax and Wayne.

I think it wouldn't work though.

Radiated....that means straight line....give me a room with a glass floor and a soother below...then we can test it...heh.

[+ElephantEarwax]

14 minutes ago, FiveLate said:

Radiated....that means straight line....give me a room with a glass floor and a soother below...then we can test it...heh.

just going by the coppermind, It seems like it has a field effect.

[Agent34]

It does have a field effect. There's a WoB somewhere about exactly this, even though it's in the hat the aluminium creates a bubble of nullification/interference. 

Edit: found it

Quote

QUESTION

Is aluminum shielding from emotional Allomancy strictly line of sight? So, can someone in the basement bypass somebody’s aluminum hat on the first floor?

BRANDON SANDERSON

No, they could not. You just put enough aluminum there and it disrupts.

QUESTION

So it disrupts like a field.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yep.

Source #16 on that page

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by Agent34

[Thanatos]

With the beheading and growing back all new, would the persons new head be a blank slate? With no memories like in The Tide Lords?

[Calderis]

Just now, Thanatos said:

With the beheading and growing back all new, would the persons new head be a blank slate? With no memories like in The Tide Lords?

Considering it happened to TLR, probably not. 

[Voidus]

See I've heard about the a bomb thing before and I find it an odd topic, once your body is completely disintegrated there's no point in putting additional energy in, sure an atom bomb could disintegrate several million people but on the scale of a single person disintegration is disintegration, doesn't matter how large the blast is. Plus you also have to sacrifice an insanely large chunk of land for a long period of time just to kill one person.
I also think people significantly underestimate compounding strength, given the speeds that Miles heals at he has to be tapping thousands if not millions of times of healing factor most of the time, broken bones heal over a period of months, Miles heals them in less than a second (2.6 million seconds in a month, give or take) without worrying in any way that he's significantly depleted his reserves.

Teleport them into the earths core, or even just the mantle, no escape and they will die eventually.

[kenod]

If the Investure from the gold healing doesn't interfere too much with Lashings, couldn't you just Lash the compounder into orbit? Sure, it won't kill them for a long time, but they probably won't have a way to get back to earth if you get the orbit right (like around the sun). This would mean that they would be out of the way until either their storage runs out, boredom and constant suffering compels them to stop healing, or they die of old age.

[FiveLate]

7 hours ago, Agent34 said:

It does have a field effect. There's a WoB somewhere about exactly this, even though it's in the hat the aluminium creates a bubble of nullification/interference. 

Edit: found it

@ElephantEarwax @Oversleep I humbly withdraw and acknowledge your correctness :).

Thanks I had not seen that one before.

Edited September 1, 2017 by FiveLate

[Archer]

On 8/26/2017 at 8:06 PM, King Cole said:

Maybe Nightbllod could do it, I don't think we have neough information about it though. Throwing them into the sun would do it, or keeping them in heat over 2000 degrees for a minute or two

I agree. All you'd have to do is apply enough heat to melt their metalminds off of their body. 

[The One Who Connects]

On 8/31/2017 at 5:46 PM, Oversleep said:

but such extreme brain damage will render him comatose

I'll still argue, albeit somewhat indirectly. Have our other example of extreme brain damage: cutting it in half. (I realize that the question may be referring to getting cut in half like Darth Maul, but 'down the middle' implies a vertical slice in my opinion)

Quote

Soronir

About Miles from Alloy of Law and his regenerative powers. If he was bisected down the middle and the halves were separated immediately before the healing process could begin, would the two halves each regrow into a whole Miles?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question. In all of the Cosmere's Shard-based magics, the greater portion of a bisected body regrows the lesser portion. If it were done EXACTLY halfway, the soul wold jump to one or the other randomly and that would regrow.

Amusingly, this first came up in 1999, six years before I got published. (I see someone else already mentioned the situation where I had to consider it.)

This is mostly for completionism at this point, but if you can heal through getting the brain sliced in half, I don't think shrapnel knocking you out will do the trick either. However, brain damage isn't exactly my area if expertise to talk about.

---

1 hour ago, Archer said:

All you'd have to do is apply enough heat to melt their Metalminds off of their body. 

Have a couple WoB's showing how it may not exactly be that simple if they have internal Metalminds.

Quote

Nethseaar

Could an Allomancer or Feruchemist Burn or Feruchemically Fill molten metal? Would that affect the Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Something to the effect that it would be very painful and damaging, but yes, one could Burn and Fill molten metal, and yes, it would affect the Investiture.

Source.

Quote

Q: What would happen if a Feruchemist fills, for example, a tin Metalmind then mixes it to make a pewter Metalmind? Does the stored attribute change? Is the Investiture gone when you melt the metal? What if he just makes it into a tin Metalmind again?
 
A: If you make it impure, you'll keep the investiture, but won't be able to get it out. If you make it back into the same thing, you'll be fine, and can access it normally. If you try to fill it, after changing the composition to make another viable metal, it will act a little like a computer hard drive with corrupted sectors. Some of it will work for the new investiture, but you won't be able to fill it nearly as full. (Depending on how full it was before you melted it down.)
This holds for basic uses of the metallurgic arts. Once you start playing with some of the more advanced parts of the magic, you can achieve different results, which are currently RAFO.
Source.

Internal Metalminds would take a little longer to melt, but once they do, they are gonna pool up in small pockets wherever they can(like most liquids). Through Gold healing, your body doesn't melt, preventing the molten gold from leaving your body. And since your body isn't melting, the gold remains quite pure, which per WoB 2: allows it to be accessed normally, and allows you to get the Investiture out of it.

Per WoB 1: You can still use Molten Gold as a viable metal, and per WoB 2: it keeps the stored Investiture while melted down, so it's valid to compound with. It's even better actually, as with each pool of molten gold you burn to compound, you have less internal burning to heal, making that compounded health last longer. Per WoB 1: You can also fill molten gold, allowing you to store most of that compounded health to compound it again, gaining even more health, which buys you more time to escape your bindings.

And you can, because it's remarkably hard to tie down a Gold Compounder. Any type of restraints must prevent all movement, or else you can wriggle out of them and heal the broken bones/severed hands/unnaturally bent limbs afterwards. They also have to be able to withstand the heat, so that they aren't useless.

If it's a locked room, see if you can sabotage whatever equipment is producing the heat. Maybe escape through whatever ventilation system exists to disperse the heat after the executions...  If you can't do either of those, then it comes down to whether or not you can withstand the heat for longer than they can run the heat. Remember that you don't have issues with overheating, while their equipment does.

Edited September 2, 2017 by The One Who Connects

[+ILuvHats]

On 9/1/2017 at 5:31 AM, kenod said:

If the Investure from the gold healing doesn't interfere too much with Lashings, couldn't you just Lash the compounder into orbit? Sure, it won't kill them for a long time, but they probably won't have a way to get back to earth if you get the orbit right (like around the sun). This would mean that they would be out of the way until either their storage runs out, boredom and constant suffering compels them to stop healing, or they die of old age.

Would this actually work though?  I mean, the normal terminal velocity for humans is 53 m/s, on earth at least.  Discounting the time needed to accelerate to this speed, it would take over 3 hr to reach a low orbit (600 km) if a person is lashed upward once.  You could lash them a number of times, of course, and increase the terminal velocity limit, but this would require inordinate amounts of stormlight.  This whole thing really brings into question if it would be possible to use Basic lashings to create a satellite.  You'd need to use fabrials capable of simulating basic lashings, and you'd need to get the correct momentum parallel to the planets surface to maintain orbit.  And now that I think about it, you wouldn't be able to provide enough stormlight given that the satellite is significantly higher than highstorms, so you wouldn't be able to refill your storages of stormlight.  Honestly, powering any kind of interstellar flight with storm light is probably out of the question since stormlight dissipates from gems within a week.  

[kenod]

19 minutes ago, ILuvHats said:

Would this actually work though?  I mean, the normal terminal velocity for humans is 53 m/s, on earth at least.  Discounting the time needed to accelerate to this speed, it would take over 3 hr to reach a low orbit (600 km) if a person is lashed upward once.  You could lash them a number of times, of course, and increase the terminal velocity limit, but this would require inordinate amounts of stormlight.  This whole thing really brings into question if it would be possible to use Basic lashings to create a satellite.  You'd need to use fabrials capable of simulating basic lashings, and you'd need to get the correct momentum parallel to the planets surface to maintain orbit.  And now that I think about it, you wouldn't be able to provide enough stormlight given that the satellite is significantly higher than highstorms, so you wouldn't be able to refill your storages of stormlight.  Honestly, powering any kind of interstellar flight with storm light is probably out of the question since stormlight dissipates from gems within a week.  

First of all, IIRC terminal velocity is also based on the thickness of the atmosphere, so as you get farther away from the planet the terminal velocity should increase, lowering the time for getting to low orbit. Once outside of the atmosphere, earth's escape velocity (going with earth data as Scandrial should be an earth analog) is about 11 km/s. Assuming the a basic lashing would use Roshar's gravity as a guideline, which is about 6.867 meter per second squared (Roshar's gravity is about 0.7 Scandrial's gravity), you would need to have the lashing active for about half an hour (11000/6.867=1644 s = 27 m). From what I can find with online calculators the orbital velocity of an object at low earth orbit is around 7.5 km/s, which would mean that from low earth orbit to escape velocity would require a basic lashing for about 8.5 minutes (3500/6.867=509s=8.5m). If we take your calculations, not accounting of atmospheric density lessening as you get higher, this would mean that you need to keep a basic lashing active for about 3 hours and 8.5 minutes. While this does seem a lot, I personally have the impression that this would be realistically achievable, if you use the stormlight from one or two full gemhearts and put all that into a single basic lashing.

[Calderis]

This WoB says it should definitely be possible. 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1086#9

Quote

QUESTION

For a Windrunner, if he had enough heating fabrials and enough Stormlight, how high up could he get?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You could exit orbit. Windrunners, remember they're gravitation and pressure. So if he knew what he was doing, we have actually factored how long it would take to get to the various moons.