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Overhyped Character


StormblessDave

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Oh maxal, I know you don't generate all the discussion, but you often bring up many of the most important points of Adolin, and see the hints that are hidden that not everyone (actually not many) easily see on first sight. :D

I also wasn't too warmed up to Jasnah at first, but I view her more positively after digging through her parts in detail. Renarin...lets say I understand how he can become interesting in the future, but he isn't yet, and is unlikely to be for a while, so in a way I find him hyped as I don't understand why get excited for something we all know won't happen for probably 10 years.

Edited by WhiteLeeopard
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1 hour ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Oh maxal, I know you don't generate all the discussion, but you often bring up many of the most important points of Adolin, and see the hints that are hidden that not everyone (actually not many) easily see on first sight. :D

I have been in too many discussions... :ph34r: A lot of my current thinking exists because I developed it and weighted it while discussing with other people. I know I ended up with something of a reputation (both positive and negative) for posting so often, but really I do it because I am enjoying it. Also, I am not nearly as important as some may think. Within the world of the Stormlight Archive fandom, I am just an insignificant minion: many do so much work being closed doors for this fandom while all I do is write posts on characters, mostly Adolin. 

What makes me happy is to know others have read my stuff and found it interesting, even if they don't always agree with it.

1 hour ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I also wasn't too warmed up to Jasnah at first, but I view her more positively after digging through her parts in detail. Renarin...lets say I understand how he can become interesting in the future, but he isn't yet, and is unlikely to be for a while, so in a way I find him hyped as I don't understand why get excited for something we all know won't happen for probably 10 years.

To be fair, the Renarin hype started before people knew he wouldn't play much of a role until much later in the story. I personally read him as a minor side character, one who could get interesting, one I actually like having around, but I don't get a "main protagonist" vibe from him which is one of the reasons why I find him over-hyped. To me, Renarin isn't main protagonist material, not now anyway, so this is how I read him.

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2 hours ago, maxal said:

However for those Jasnah, I really, really do not get the hype for her character. 

I don't have particularly strong feelings for her either way but I understand why people really like her. I will be speaking in generalities in this post but, of course, realize there is always exceptions. This younger generation seems to not care for social conventions and traditional. They, like Jasnah, don't mind giving them the middle finger and doing there own thing. Also, ever since two crippling World Wars, there has been a decline in religion; especially in Europe. I think her views on religion appeal to many readers. That's how I see it at least.

Perhaps a Jasnah fan could chime in and critique my theory?

Edited by Ammanas
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1 hour ago, Ammanas said:

Perhaps a Jasnah fan could chime in and critique my theory?

For me, part of it is her atheism, yeah, but only part. It's not her "bucking convention." 

It's the way that she's obviously damaged. There's some kind of trauma in her past, what it is I don't know. She uses logic and reasoning as a defense mechanism. She come to rely on them heavily enough that she surpresses emotions enough that she seems to function without them at times. When they manage to break through... Their intense. You see it after Shallan's betrayal. You see it on the ship when Shallan catches her tired and afraid. Most of all, you see it in the alley after her vigilante justice. 

I relate to that strongly. I don't know what "broke" her, but the result of her breaking is the same way I function. 

She's smarter than me, but I'd like to think I'd be welcome in the Elsecallers. 

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1 hour ago, Ammanas said:

I don't have particularly strong feelings for her either way but I understand why people really like her. I will be speaking in generalities in this post but, of course, realize there is always exceptions. This younger generation seems to not care for social conventions and traditional. They, like Jasnah, don't mind giving them the middle finger and doing there own thing. Also, ever since two crippling World Wars, there has been a decline in religion; especially in Europe. I think her views on religion appeal to many readers. That's how I see it at least.

Perhaps a Jasnah fan could chime in and critique my theory?

It isn't I disagree with you, but according to your post, I would be the perfect candidate to root for Jasnah, except I don't :ph34r:

I live in one of the few places in the world where religion bears no importance, where people don't even want to hear about it, where people have walked out of churches decades ago. Oddly enough, Jasnah being atheism is not a weighting factor to me because my default googles consider all people to be atheism until proven otherwise (which probably sounds weird to many people). It is thus I feel too much of a big deal is being made out of something which to me, as an individual, is trivial. I also think she spends way too much time pondering about religion whereas, where I live, we only speak about it when it becomes bothersome or when it impedes on what we consider to be fundamental values within our society. I would relate more to a character having the "I don't care attitude" about religion then to someone dedicated to prove it wrong.

I also grew up in a place where gender equity is rather high. I grew up being told there was no difference in between men and women: I could be all that I wanted. I was never told being a woman was being inferior. I studied with men, I work with men into a typically male oriented field. So Jasnah's feminist speech isn't something I find refreshing, I actually find it old-fashioned. I even find it hollow coming from a rich princess having the means to her ambitions. I would relate more to a female character struggling to succeed into an all-male bastion, having to prove her worth and to show all women can do it. Better.

It is thus, to me, the characteristics which make her appealing to other readers simply do not work when grouped together into her character. I also find her terribly cold and I have a hard time relating with character ignoring the fact human emotions do exist.

Obviously, my opinion will possibly change once we read more of her character. I find she is a hard to relate to character considering we only have third person's perspective other. 

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To me this comes down to what your definition of overhyped is. Are we talking about characters that the books hype up more than they should, or are we talking about characters that the fan base talks about more than they should? Because from a book perspective, a character like Rysn doesn't even have enough screen time to be overhyped in my opinion. 

As far as characters in the books go, I tend to like all of the main PoV characters that get the most screen time. So it's hard for me to say "I wish the books spent less time on this character." Because the characters I like the least are usually in interludes anyways. 

If we're talking about characters the fan base hypes up more than they should, it has got to be Adolin. He shows up everywhere. 

*braces for @maxal

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1 minute ago, Andy92 said:

*braces for @maxal

*Raises an eyebrow*

You know, the best way to make Adolin an over-hyped character is to keep on referring to him within the "over-hyped" thread :o Adolin is hyped, but considering how his character arc has ended, I don't think he is over-hyped.

If we are to speak of characters we think the book spent too much time on, I would say Kaladin and Rysn. Kaladin because I feel several of his chapters were superfluous and I would have rather we got additional Adolin chapters instead. Rysn because her interlude was insanely long, slightly boring to read and it yielded nothing I could see.

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7 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

If we're talking about characters the fan base hypes up more than they should, it has got to be Adolin. He shows up everywhere. 

*braces for @maxal

I think it is refreshing in a series where many the characters are plagued by doubts (of their own ability and about the future) to have a guy that walks with a bit of a swagger. That is confident in himself and his ability to handle whatever the future may hold.

Edited by Ammanas
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18 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

I think it is refreshing in a series where many the characters are plagued by doubts (of their own ability and about the future) to have a guy that walks with a bit of a swagger. That is confident in himself and his ability to handle whatever the future may hold.

I would argue his swagger hides his lack of self-confidence and not the opposite, but at least he doesn't let it prevent him from acting. In shorts, it is refreshing to have a character not withhold, not hesitate and not spend his every waking moment brooding over it even if he does have doubts.

12 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Silence!

Couldn't resist :ph34r: I'll go to sleep now :ph34r:

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5 minutes ago, maxal said:

 

17 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Silence!

 

5 minutes ago, maxal said:

 

Couldn't resist :ph34r: I'll go to sleep now :ph34r:

I was actually making a HILARIOUS joke, referring to the character Silence while implying this thread was too noisy. Hilarious. But then i realized this thread is about Stormlight:ph34r: sigh

Edit - this @Ammanas guy knows :)

Edited by Extesian
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54 minutes ago, maxal said:

It is thus I feel too much of a big deal is being made out of something which to me, as an individual, is trivial. I also think she spends way too much time pondering about religion whereas, where I live, we only speak about it when it becomes bothersome or when it impedes on what we consider to be fundamental values within our society. I would relate more to a character having the "I don't care attitude" about religion then to someone dedicated to prove it wrong.

I think this is a product of the environment you talk about being in. Where your natural bias leans the opposite direction of a predominantly religious society. 

Jasnah doesn't try to "prove religion wrong." she says herself there's no point. Shallan's viewpoints tell us that she almost never brings up religion, and usually skillfully avoids the topic. The only times we see her discuss religion are to Taravangian, who she indulges for his (presumed) sincerity, and a hostile ardent (assassin). The one time she brings it up otherwise, is explaining her Reasoning to Shallan, who is both her ward, and outspoken about her own religious beliefs. 

Religion is only apart of her story because it is literally everywhere else in the story. It's integral to the social structure of the society. There are ardents everywhere. 

Her status as a "Heretic" for being a nonbeliever shows how ingrained religion is to the society. 

The indifferent character that you say you want an atheist to be is an impossibility in Vorin society, at least for someone as prominent as Jasnah. She either states her beliefs openly as she has, or she lives a lie by joining one of the devotaries. 

Edited by Calderis
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So I haven't noticed anyone mention Lopen yet. Every time I hear the phrase "one-armed Herdazian" or something similar I roll my eyes. And chouta. Like it was kind of funny in the book, but when I see it in the forum it's just... meh. 

I mean, he probably isn't the most overhyped character, but he's still fairly overhyped

Edited by Fatling
Remembered something else I was going to say 1 second after hitting submit
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I don't love the Lopen but let us not forget he was briefly King of Alethkar. Maybe he'll make a claim to succession :D

Quote

BRANDON SANDERSON

Lopen was actually considered to be the king of Alethkar for about 15 minutes. When his family was hiding Elhokar, his family did not want to lie about harboring the king, so they convinced Elhokar to renounce his kingship for about 15 minutes until the search ended. During that time, Lopen was considered to be the king.

 

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I hate jumping in to have my opinion dragged through the figurative shredder, but I don't think any characters in SA are overhyped. I think we just haven't had enough time to see what The Bard is going to do with them. There are characters I don't particularly enjoy (and I enjoy every character that has been mentioned here, including Sticky McStickspren) but I just can't bring myself to distrust the arc of the story so far.

Other books where the story arc has ended, I can look at and judge those characters. But this series is only two books into its ten-book arc. ~:unsure:~

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Probably won't get a lot of love for this opinion, but hey this is a thread that's centred around criticizing our favourite author's creations, so everyone is gonna get rubbed the wrong way once in a while I think. 

I don't like the Lopen all that much. I understand why he's a fan-favourite, but I just don't get the hype surrounding him. The 'what kind of radiant would Lopen be!' facebook discussions and stuff like that. I think he's an excellent wacky side character but I'd really just like him to stay like that. He should be like a Shakespearean clown: he's there, he runs through the scene causing good-natured chaos and then he leaves and the main characters continue their plot to kill the king/get married in secret/etc. I think he'd be great at filling this role, but not become a central character all on his own like everyone seems to want him to be. 

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12 minutes ago, Goatbringer said:

Probably won't get a lot of love for this opinion, but hey this is a thread that's centred around criticizing our favourite author's creations, so everyone is gonna get rubbed the wrong way once in a while I think. 

I don't like the Lopen all that much. I understand why he's a fan-favourite, but I just don't get the hype surrounding him. The 'what kind of radiant would Lopen be!' facebook discussions and stuff like that. I think he's an excellent wacky side character but I'd really just like him to stay like that. He should be like a Shakespearean clown: he's there, he runs through the scene causing good-natured chaos and then he leaves and the main characters continue their plot to kill the king/get married in secret/etc. I think he'd be great at filling this role, but not become a central character all on his own like everyone seems to want him to be. 

I believe he's going to stay a squire, and if he does become a radiant it doesn't bother me. He's the most lighthearted, jovial character in the series so far, if he does so(become a radiant), it's a few more Lopen povs! I don't think he's going to become a main character, so  it'll be cool to see radiants povs of those who aren't in the spotlight.

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Yeah, "awesomeness" kinda kills it for me.  Lift grew on me a bit during Edgedancer, and I do appreciate that she is both one of the youngest perspectives Brandon has written, and is still developing.  But, for now, she just doesn't do it for me.

 

I am happy to watch and see how she develops, hopefully into a character I can enjoy reading by the time she is a main.

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If Lift is still the obnoxious immature thing that she is now in the back half, when she will be literally twice her age now, I'll just... Ugh... 

She's 13 now. We have this upcoming book, and two more, with any time between them, plus the 10-15 year gap between halves. 

Lift is going to be 25 to 30 years old. If she's not a more mature character by that time (and seriously, she should grow into a completely different character) I just won't be able to enjoy reading her. 

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