Jump to content

Radiant turned evil


StormblessDave

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, kaellok said:

except for those that have a defined morality that is very opposed to my own.

So if you believed with certainty, be it through logic, religion, or any other means, that the very survival of mankind relied on the deaths of the majority, you would choose the death of all for the sake of salving your own guilt? 

Taravangian is misguided, but he believes he is doing the right thing.

The path of absolutes, even in the case of morality, is flawed. 

Edited by Calderis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Nathrangking I think that he could back out of the path he is on.  Few people know what he has done, or the extent of his actions.  If he were to stop dividing nations (in order to conquer them easier later), then he can do that.  Worst case scenario will be loyal Diagrammists that speak out against him if he chooses to stop, but how much of the world would blame OR condemn him?  After all, he is the kindly but dull king--everyone 'knows' this, even if they're from a backwater state in a kingdom far away.  So if those that he is working with reveals the plan, he would be pitied while they would be reviled twice over; first for their actions, second for trying to pin it all on Mr T, and thrice for convincing him that he was responsible.

There are almost definitely sections of the Diagram that he could choose to follow or not, as well.  Working with Dalinar to unite the kingdoms of the world, instead of assassinating him, comes to mind.  He already focused efforts on undermining Jah Keved instead of having the Alethi wipe out the Parshendi.  It seems to me that the Diagram is the opposite of a path that you cannot leave once you have started down it; rather, you must continually choose to follow its path.  

The only reason to feel you have no choice but to continue on the path of the Diagram is because of the terrible atrocities that you have already committed in its name and not seen any good come from them yet.  

Mr T and Szeth are interesting, but they are very much antagonists at this point in the books, and are likely to remain such simply because they do not believe in acting the way that the protagonists of the story (Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, etc.) do, and with a very strong thematic focus on how the actions of a person matter as much as the intent behind them.  I mean, that's essentially Kaladin's character arc in WoR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Calderis said:

So if you believed with certainty, be it through logic, religion, or any other means, that the very survival of mankind relied on the deaths of the majority, you would choose the death of all for the sake of stating your own guilt? 

Taravangian is misguided, but he believes he is doing the right thing.

The path of absolutes, even in the case of morality, is flawed. 

I'm saying that there are things that are evil, and will always be evil, period.  For instance, I think killing people is always wrong.  There are times when it is wrong to not kill someone.  I believe that it is very possible for every action or inaction a person can take to be morally wrong.  Life sucks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@kaellok I must disagree his minders are now in control he has locked himself out in a word by trusting them to be in control. If e would back out he would most likely end up dead due to the situation that he himself out into practice. Even if he desired to put an end to it all I do not believe that he would have the ability to do so. What may have once been his flawed and amoral dream has taken on a life far beyond his power to prevent. He is responsible for making it so which adds to the list of reprehensible acrtions which he has undertaken.

2 minutes ago, kaellok said:

@Nathrangking I think that he could back out of the path he is on.  Few people know what he has done, or the extent of his actions.  If he were to stop dividing nations (in order to conquer them easier later), then he can do that.  Worst case scenario will be loyal Diagrammists that speak out against him if he chooses to stop, but how much of the world would blame OR condemn him?  After all, he is the kindly but dull king--everyone 'knows' this, even if they're from a backwater state in a kingdom far away.  So if those that he is working with reveals the plan, he would be pitied while they would be reviled twice over; first for their actions, second for trying to pin it all on Mr T, and thrice for convincing him that he was responsible.

There are almost definitely sections of the Diagram that he could choose to follow or not, as well.  Working with Dalinar to unite the kingdoms of the world, instead of assassinating him, comes to mind.  He already focused efforts on undermining Jah Keved instead of having the Alethi wipe out the Parshendi.  It seems to me that the Diagram is the opposite of a path that you cannot leave once you have started down it; rather, you must continually choose to follow its path.  

The only reason to feel you have no choice but to continue on the path of the Diagram is because of the terrible atrocities that you have already committed in its name and not seen any good come from them yet.  

Mr T and Szeth are interesting, but they are very much antagonists at this point in the books, and are likely to remain such simply because they do not believe in acting the way that the protagonists of the story (Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, etc.) do, and with a very strong thematic focus on how the actions of a person matter as much as the intent behind them.  I mean, that's essentially Kaladin's character arc in WoR.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, kaellok said:

I'm saying that there are things that are evil, and will always be evil, period.  For instance, I think killing people is always wrong.  There are times when it is wrong to not kill someone.  I believe that it is very possible for every action or inaction a person can take to be morally wrong.  Life sucks.

I agree. And it's why I agree with Taravangian. He's wrong, there is another way, but he doesn't believe that. 

Taravangian is stuck in the middle of the largest trolley problem ever. 

If you're presented options are standard back and watch everyone die, or take action that kills the majority but some survive... You choose to have some survive. 

He hates what he does but does it anyway, because he believes the alternative is worse. He's misguided, but he's operating under the logic of survival at all costs. 

If I had to choose between hating myself, or watching the world die, it wouldn't be a choice. I'd much rather hate myself for what I did, than what I failed to do. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

I agree. And it's why I agree with Taravangian. He's wrong, there is another way, but he doesn't believe that. 

Taravangian is stuck in the middle of the largest trolley problem ever. 

If you're presented options are standard back and watch everyone die, or take action that kills the majority but some survive... You choose to have some survive. 

He hates what he does but does it anyway, because he believes the alternative is worse. He's misguided, but he's operating under the logic of survival at all costs. 

If I had to choose between hating myself, or watching the world die, it wouldn't be a choice. I'd much rather hate myself for what I did, than what I failed to do. 

I bolded the part of your post that, to me, makes him an interesting character.  I just draw a very distinct line in calling him a 'good' person.  I am very much not a subscriber to "ends justify the means" in terms of philosophy because it is so very open to abuse.  Even Mr T uses the poor and the desperate as his victims for the death rattles, killing the people that are not likely to be missed, when his supply of deathly ill patients grows too weak.

However, since "the ends justify the means" is so incredibly prevalent in all types of stories, media, and real-life, it's good to have that included.  I even think that if the Diagram is to be proven false in-world, that the story itself would suffer.  I want the Diagram to be a real, valid alternative to the Radiants and Heralds as a way to save humanity from the Desolation.  But based on what Mr T has already done, even if he goes on to save all of the rest of humanity along with life on Roshar, it will not make me like him or consider him a good person.  Good people should be praised, or emulated, or treated as heroes; even if Mr T saves everyone, he should be, at best, ignored afterward.  Perhaps treated with a kind of horrified respect.

Edit: I just want to say that one reason that I love the Stormlight Archive books is that they seem to encourage discussion and thought about what is right or wrong, and then we see examples that prove and disprove the answers found, so that there are no neat pat answers.  Morality is messy, and the story goes out of its way to prove just how messy it can be.  Even a character that I find to be rather loathsome, I can understand where he is coming from and why others think they are great (ie, Szeth and Mr T).

Edited by kaellok
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, kaellok said:

I strongly disagree your point re: Mr T here.  First, he is forced to do nothing.  The evil, despicable things that he does are entirely by his own will.  Even if the Diagram itself is a creation of some other entity, or was shaped and influenced by some other entity, blindly following it is still his choice.  There is NO evidence for coercion or force that I have seen evidence of, or that people have presented.

This means he is a legitimately terrible human being.  He understands this, and because he believes it is the surest way to preserve humanity he persists.  But he is NOT a good person.  Wholesale murder is never the answer or response for someone who is good, except for those that have a defined morality that is very opposed to my own.  Just because his intent is good does not mean that he is.  What I find interesting about his character is that he realizes these things, but persists anyway.  There are times when you can choose evil (let people die) or evil (kill some, to attempt to save the rest).  

I don't find the character himself sympathetic at all, let alone likable.  However, he IS interesting and adds a great deal more to the story than being a different type of Sadeas or Straff, who essentially seek power only for the sake of power.

Personally, the absolute faith that everyone is placing in the Diagram lets me know that it is doomed to fail.  On his other super-intelligent days, Mr T is not allowed to be king because he is wrong; adding significantly more of the attribute disqualifying him from making permanent changes or laws does not seem likely to overcome that fatal flaw.  I know there are many who believe that he was so smart on that day that he broke through the barrier, and I certainly believe that Mr T and Crew believe this, but I have not seen anything to convince me of the same.  Instead, I see a man who is devoted to chaos, death, and slaughter at a time when the world needs to be perfectly united; a man who knew that the Parshendi needed to be eliminated (according to the Diagram itself!  In floorboard 17, from https://coppermind.net/wiki/Diagram) but decided to take over Jah Keved instead.

I disagree. Taravangian is definitely not a terrible human being. When I wrote that he was forced, I meant that he feels obliged to do the horrible stuff he is doing. 

What we need to do is separate actions and persons. Taravangians actions are horrible. Taravangian is not.

The reason to why Taravangian is not a horrible dude is simple. He doesn't like doing the things he does, and he doesn't do them for himself. A person like Sadeas is horrible, because he is doing terrible stuff, for himself. He knows that it is bad, he has no need to be bad, but he is bad anyway. Taravangian kills people to save the world, not for personal gain. All those hospitals he builds are for real. He cares. He cares about people, and is willing to sacrifice his morality for the greater good. That is why Taravangian is a good person, in my estimation. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I disagree. Taravangian is definitely not a terrible human being. When I wrote that he was forced, I meant that he feels obliged to do the horrible stuff he is doing. 

What we need to do is separate actions and persons. Taravangians actions are horrible. Taravangian is not.

The reason to why Taravangian is not a horrible dude is simple. He doesn't like doing the things he does, and he doesn't do them for himself. A person like Sadeas is horrible, because he is doing terrible stuff, for himself. He knows that it is bad, he has no need to be bad, but he is bad anyway. Taravangian kills people to save the world, not for personal gain. All those hospitals he builds are for real. He cares. He cares about people, and is willing to sacrifice his morality for the greater good. That is why Taravangian is a good person, in my estimation. 

That's a very dangerous way of thinking, very few villains(good ones) consider what they are to doing to be wrong most of the time they do it for survival alone or for what they believe is a better goal, even the common criminal does it often to feed their family, meet their basic requirements etc (not taking about big criminals who do it out of greed alone)

Interestingly when a villain's character is well developed you end up feeling sympathy for him.

Let me draw a comparison, we have seen Mr T's pov, his anguish and despair for his actions etc and feel sympathy for him despite his horrific actions(mass genocide)

Now lets look at Amaram, we don't have his pov so we don't know how he feels exactly(we do have the clue that he feels guilty from kaladin's pov, so he isn't a feelingless killer) all we know is that he killed people for what he believed was a greater purpose - saving thousands more lives. The reason none of us have pity for him, is that we haven't had his pov yet, instead we have a pov of Kal one of his victims which incites our hatred for him( we haven't had this in Mr T's case), otherwise he is a very similar character to Mr T!

So if you say Taravangian is a good character, your essentially saying that Amaram is a good character!

In my eyes they are both bad people, its simple.(They just have sympathy-arising excuses, they are maybe even lying to themselves)

And yes, Sadeas is worse than both of them, I agree

Edited by StormblessDave
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, StormblessDave said:

That's a very dangerous way of thinking, very few villains(good ones) consider what they are to doing to be wrong most of the time they do it for survival alone or for what they believe is a better goal, even the common criminal does it often to feed their family, meet their basic requirements etc (not taking about big criminals who do it out of greed alone)

Interestingly when a villain's character is well developed you end up feeling sympathy for him.

Let me draw a comparison, we have seen Mr T's pov, his anguish and despair for his actions etc and feel sympathy for him despite his horrific actions(mass genocide)

Now lets look at Amaram, we don't have his pov so we don't know how he feels exactly(we do have the clue that he feels guilty from kaladin's pov, so he isn't a feelingless killer) all we know is that he killed people for what he believed was a greater purpose - saving thousands more lives. The reason none of us have pity for him, is that we haven't had his pov yet, instead we have a pov of Kal one of his victims which incites our hatred for him( we haven't had this in Mr T's case), otherwise he is a very similar character to Mr T!

So if you say Taravangian is a good character, your essentially saying that Amaram is a good character!

In my eyes they are both bad people, its simple.(They just have sympathy-arising excuses, they are maybe even lying to themselves)

I generally believe that most people aren't bad, and I don't see Taravangian or Amaram as bad. I see them as misguided men who commits bad actions in attempts do great good. 

Criminals who commit bad actions for their family, or just steal from rich people to buy food for themselves are not bad people either. I tend to think that humans are complex creatures, and deeming them bad is often the same as simplifying things a great deal. 

Look at Mr. T and Amaram, and then at Sadeas and Straff. Sadeas and Straff are clearly worse than T and Amaram, because they are selfish bastards who cares for none other than themselves. T and Amaram both do. Sadeas and Straff feels no remorse, T and Amaram does. Sadeas and Straff does bad things for themselves only, while T and Amaram does them for others. T is even willing to bear the burden of his actions for others. 

In Mr. T and Amaram we see things that are praised as good traits when they belong to protagonists. We also see bad actions that comes from them being misguided. But they do not want to harm anyone, and they are not doing it for themselves. Thats the difference for me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, StormblessDave said:

Now lets look at Amaram, we don't have his pov so we don't know how he feels exactly(we do have the clue that he feels guilty from kaladin's pov, so he isn't a feelingless killer) all we know is that he killed people for what he believed was a greater purpose - saving thousands more lives. The reason none of us have pity for him, is that we haven't had his pov yet, instead we have a pov of Kal one of his victims which incites our hatred for him( we haven't had this in Mr T's case), otherwise he is a very similar character to Mr T!

We know the Sons of Honor's goals. Bring back the Heralds via causing a desolation in order to restore Vorinism. 

The reason that I like Taravangian, and hate Amaram, is that that Taravangian commits atrocities because he believes that to do otherwise is literally dooming the world. 

Amaram is a religious Zealot who believes Vorinism. This means he believes the desolations ended. His goal isn't to save thousands, but to initiate the deaths of thousands to further the influence of his chosen beliefs. 

That's a huge difference. His religion is more important to him than human life. 

Edited by Calderis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

We know the Sons of Honor's goals. Bring back the Heralds via causing a desolation in order to restore Vorinism. 

The reason that I like Taravangian, and hate Amaram, is that that Taravangian commits atrocities because he believes that to do otherwise is literally dooming the world. 

Amaram is a religious Zealot who believes Vorinism. This means he believes the desolations ended. His goal isn't to save thousands, but to initiate the deaths of thousands to further the influence of his chosen beliefs. 

That's a huge difference. His religion is more important to him than human life. 

In my opinion, Taravangian is quite similar to Szeth, both hate what they are doing, but it is necessary for them(for Szeth his honor, for Taravangian what he believes is necessary to save the world)

I understand why Mr T is so likeable but I personally didn't like him when he started using Szeth like a tool, okay so he's killing people on unimaginable scales and now using someone like Szeth and more or less torturing him by sending him on assasinations poor Szeth had nightmares about. I know, Taravangian believes that to be necessary too, but it was still NOT COOL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, StormblessDave said:

In my opinion, Taravangian is quite similar to Szeth, both hate what they are doing, but it is necessary for them(for Szeth his honor, for Taravangian what he believes is necessary to save the world)

And I see them as opposite sides of the same coin. 

Taravangian hates what he is doing, and has contradicted all of his values to attain a goal that is the difference between survival of the world and death. 

Szeth hates his actions and continues to do them in spite of seeing the instability and additional deaths it will create to maintain his Honor. 

I can respect Taravangian. He is an extreme case, but there will always be situations where every choice is horrible and you just have to try and make the choice that is the best in the long term regardless of your own feelings. 

Szeth though? He did things he hated yes. He did it for himself though. To uphold his personal honor, his twisted value system, at the cost of the life and health of countless people, knowing fully that his actions would lead to more instability and more death. 

Taravangian hates what he does, but does it for what he believes is the only course towards survival. 

Szeth is willing to sacrifice those lives and throw the world into chaos for his own self worth. 

Edited by Calderis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Szeth is willing to sacrifice those lives and throw the world into chaos for his own self worth.

I disagree with that statement, he believed he was the dirt of the earth and didn't have an ounce of respect for himself which is made evident throughout the two books, He was banished from his people and given this one horrid punishment, he had nothing left except his honor, if he let that go he would have nothing left, it makes perfect sense why he clung to it. Its one of the most admirable things I have seen in a fictional character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, StormblessDave said:

I disagree with that statement, he believed he was the dirt of the earth and didn't have an ounce of respect for himself which is made evident throughout the two books, He was banished from his people and given this one horrid punishment, he had nothing left except his honor, if he let that go he would have nothing left, it makes perfect sense why he clung to it. Its one of the most admirable things I have seen in a fictional character.

And I can't respect it. I don't find it admirable at all. It doesn't matter that his honor was all he had left. 

Taravangian is only understandable in my mind because he can rationalize that those people are going to die regardless, and at least this way those deaths may save others. 

The moment Szeth sees the list he knows and comments on the ramifications. His honor was more important than the lives of thousands. Those he killed, and those he knowingly threw into chaos. By choice. There's no magic to the Oathstone. Ever life he took was his own choice of his honor over the value of their life. Every death was a literal reinforcement that his honor, his values, his self worth (cause like you said, it's all he had left) were more important. 

I don't find that admirable. If he'd had the decency to strike down Taravangian and end what he rightfully saw as atrocities, that would have been admirable. 

Holding to a code that forces you to knowingly destroy many lives beyond your own is anything but. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I am inclined not to judge Szeth too harshly until we know his entire story, but as it stands now, I would rank both Taravangian and Amaram above him. That said, we should wait until we know more about the Shin culture, and Szeths former life.

Yeah. I love Szeth as a character. He's a fantastic specimen, especially placed in contrast to the other characters. 

His flashbacks may change my opinion of him as a person, but for now, he's probably the only character that I rank as low as Amaram. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

So you rank Sadeas above those two? Interesting.

No. I just didn't feel a need to address him as his story is complete. 

He was a opportunist driven completely by lust and greed. All that mattered was him and what he wanted. A knife in the eye was too kind. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Calderis said:

I can respect Taravangian. He is an extreme case, but there will always be situations where every choice is horrible and you just have to try and make the choice that is the best in the long term regardless of your own feelings. 

My problem with Taravangian is he never tried to look for another option but mass slaughter. He merely devised what he believes to be a false-proof plan to save humanity: I however absolutely do not believe it was the only plan. It just was the one having the highest chance of success, hence with his rational mind he went with it. Other plans probably still have decent chances of success but he won't risk it.

I thus have absolutely no sympathy nor pity for a man who purposefully chooses to endorse a plan requiring him to purge 3/4 of humanity in order to save then 10%. I can understand protagonists being placed in front of impossible choices and thus having to make a terrible one, but once again, Taravangian never were within this situation. He never saw a Desolation, he has no idea what he is about to fight, all he knows if bribes of stories which survived the Recreance, but moreover he cannot know how it will end. No one can predict the future, you can predict the likelihood of events happening, but probabilities aren't false-proof. Just because something as a lower rate of success does not mean it will be a complete failure. 

Taravangian has thus never tried to find an alternate plan to his sickening one. If I were to rate our characters in terms of evil, he would be up there, together with Szeth and Amaram. Sadeas, I put under them and I feel I surprisingly have to make a plea for him because I quite frankly consider him the lesser evil. 

Why?

Because Sadeas is not trying to destroy the world nor is he burning down his country nor is he killing civilians. He is not trying to launch a mass destruction even just so his religious fervor could have a reason to exists. He isn't a puppet killing people on pure orders for no valid reasons. 

No. He is just trying to keep Alethkar strong and inline with his innate culture which is warring. Yeah. It is a bad innate culture, but Alethkar has been built upon the idea it needs to war. Princedoms need to war one against the others. Soldiers are the highest Calling, the highest ranked individuals are military leaders, for the most part: none of it can happen if... there are no more war. Hence when Dalinar thinks to reform the whole country, to stop warring: he goes against their entire culture.

So yeah, Sadeas is despicable, plain unlikable, hateful, pity, selfish and countless of other pejorative terms, but at the very least he is honest about his intentions. He wants to over-throw Dalinar because he feels his former friend has lost it. He then wants to over-throw Elhokar because he is too weak-willed to be king (and he is right about that one). He wants to crown himself because he does believe he is the best candidate, after all, he was Gavilar's right handed man.

And yeah, Sadeas will not care about the collateral damage he does to achieve his goal, he will not care who he kills or how many soldiers have to die for him to have a chance at seeing Dalinar die in a way which would not be punishable by Alethi laws. He won't bat an eye if innocent brightladies fell to their death when he dropped the bridge.

He is however not committing himself to an idiotic plan to kill half the humanity in hope to save a remnant just so because he will not consider other possibilities. He is not purging out villages. He is not taking orders from anyone, he isn't a blind follower.

It is thus, when I put things into perspective, I find Sadeas's little internal war to be of a lesser evil than Amaram/Gavilar wanting to launch a Desolation or Szeth blindly killing people or Taravangian plans for humanity disguised as good intentions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find Amaram despicable because he is aware of the path that should be walked to be honorable, and he pretends to everyone that he walks this path, but in reality he makes large detours.  If he were open about his mistakes and sins, then to me he would be less of a terrible person.  As far as his goals, we know that he wants to return Vorinism to the world.  What we do not know in detail is why or the end-purpose.  Many religious people believe that worship is required for survival or existence in the afterlife.  It is possible that Amaram is willing to sacrifice the lives of many in the Physical Realm in order to save them on the Spiritual--is that really worse than what Mr T is willing to do?  And what actions did he take or participate in that had any direct effect in the greater scheme of things?  Mr T and Szeth plunged the world into chaos; Amaram was a selfish twit who wanted the result that is occurring, but does not appear to have actually helped cause it.  We may find out more later on, though, especially depending on what dealings he had with the Parshendi, and with whom.

10 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I disagree. Taravangian is definitely not a terrible human being. When I wrote that he was forced, I meant that he feels obliged to do the horrible stuff he is doing. 

What we need to do is separate actions and persons. Taravangians actions are horrible. Taravangian is not.

The reason to why Taravangian is not a horrible dude is simple. He doesn't like doing the things he does, and he doesn't do them for himself. A person like Sadeas is horrible, because he is doing terrible stuff, for himself. He knows that it is bad, he has no need to be bad, but he is bad anyway. Taravangian kills people to save the world, not for personal gain. All those hospitals he builds are for real. He cares. He cares about people, and is willing to sacrifice his morality for the greater good. That is why Taravangian is a good person, in my estimation. 

We'll have to agree to disagree here.  I do not separate the specific actions of murder, mass-murder, assassination, etc. from the person who is responsible for them.  Feeling bad after causing such actions to occur will never, in my mind, result in a person being 'good.'   After all, Mr T's plan in a nutshell is to murder people until he is king of everything, so that he can then lead the chosen survivors to survival.

He might be interesting, or sympathetic.  Hells, he might even be necessary for the survival of the species.  That doesn't make him a good person.  For comparison, and since I think we come at things from drastically different viewpoints, Kelsier from Mistborn: TFE also wasn't a good person during what we see of his life.  I feel that The Lord Ruler was equal parts necessary and monstrous--would you consider him to be a good person as well?  (An honest question, as to me, TLR is the end-state of Mr T's Diagram.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/11/2017 at 0:16 PM, StormblessDave said:

Does Brandon plan on making some of his main characters antagonists?Im talking about people like Kal, shallan,dalinar,Szeth, eshonai etc who are more or less definitely main characters.If so, I definitely think a few heralds might go rogue,maybe Taln?

Btw I'm excluding Adolin as he's not a confirmed main character and tbh we've had too many Adolin-turns-evil theories lately, lol

I really admire the way you stated this...antagonist rather than "Evil".

20 hours ago, kaellok said:

I'm saying that there are things that are evil, and will always be evil, period.  For instance, I think killing people is always wrong.  There are times when it is wrong to not kill someone.  I believe that it is very possible for every action or inaction a person can take to be morally wrong.  Life sucks.

Evil is only defined by the perceptions and morals of the viewer.   Many people would say the Lord Ruler was "evil" for creating the society he did, but he did it to save the world....   A large part of every book Brandon writes is about perception.  We have a history of over 60 years of the USSR, were many of the people thought all religion was "evil", same with capitalism.  

By your logic, every Vessel except Saze is "evil".  They killed Adonalsium. 

It is a reoccurring theme in the cosmere, which is why the command phrase "Destroy Evil" for Nightbringer caused so much problems.  Evil truly is in the eye of the beholder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...