Radiant turned evil

[StormblessDave]

Does Brandon plan on making some of his main characters antagonists?Im talking about people like Kal, shallan,dalinar,Szeth, eshonai etc who are more or less definitely main characters.If so, I definitely think a few heralds might go rogue,maybe Taln?

Btw I'm excluding Adolin as he's not a confirmed main character and tbh we've had too many Adolin-turns-evil theories lately, lol

[Calderis]

I honestly think this depends on what PoV your looking from. 

Szeth and Eshonai have arguably already been Antagonists. Rectifying that in the minds of the others is going to be difficult. 

I have a speculative theory on Taln as well. 

All in all, even if they aren't a true antagonist, they'll still hold that role to others perspectives until something major happens. 

For Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar specifically? I doubt it. 

[Stormrunner1730]

Szeth was an antagonist to anyone opposing Taravangian until the end of the WOR.  As of now, my interpretation is that Eshonai is under Odium's influence.  I think Shallan will be doing shifty stuff with the Ghostbloods, but I don't think she will be a direct antagonist to the Radiants.  

[maxal]

I have a personal theory either Renarin or Elhokar will turn into an antagonist, perhaps not permanently, but temporarily.

[Nathrangking]

Kalladin could potentially become antagonistic for a while in Oathbringer. I am led to this conclusion by the synopsis of the book which describes how he sees the plight of the parshmen and begins to empathize with them.

[Calderis]

5 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

Kalladin could potentially become antagonistic for a while in Oathbringer. I am led to this conclusion by the synopsis of the book which describes how he sees the plight of the parshmen and begins to empathize with them.

Considering the way Parshmen, not Voidforms but Parshmen, are going to be treated after the Everstorm... 

I don't think anyone sworn to protect those who can't protect themselves would be able to just sit back. 

While some characters may view what he does in response as antagonistic, I think there a very clear line between antagonist and opposing injustices. 

[StormblessDave]

11 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

Kalladin could potentially become antagonistic for a while in Oathbringer. I am led to this conclusion by the synopsis of the book which describes how he sees the plight of the parshmen and begins to empathize with them.

I'm personally on the parshmen side too.

Aesudan is a very probable antagonist, even though shes not a main character(atleast as of now)

 

[Nathrangking]

Perhaps he will not just sit back and watch, but he may yet lash out become bitter towards the stupidities of society. His old emotional wounds lie half healed just beneath the surface they are at risk to reopen at any time  We will have to wait and see what happens.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Nathrangking

[Toaster Retribution]

26 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

Kalladin could potentially become antagonistic for a while in Oathbringer. I am led to this conclusion by the synopsis of the book which describes how he sees the plight of the parshmen and begins to empathize with them.

I really like this idea. 

 

Personally, I think that some kind of conflict between the Radiants will happen sooner or later. I think we need to draw a line between antagonist and evil. I can for example see Shallan as an antagonist, but not as an evil person. 

I am personally positive toward @Calderis idea about Taln. I also believe that Shallan and the Ghostbloods will become too friendly with eachother. Renarin is another one who could possibly take a darker turn.

[Calderis]

@Nathrangking

Antagonist implies he'd be taking action against people. Acting in defense of the Parshmen does not an act against. 

Kaladin and Dalinar are the least likely, possibly even incapable of being antagonists at this point.

Ican accept arguments for pretty much anyone else. Shallan with the Ghostbloods... 

Those two though? Even when they do this gs wrong it's for good intentions, and after Kaladin's last major mistake, I think he's going to have to think things through quite a bit more. 

Most importantly, Kal being an antagonist means either Syl is dead, or Syl is also an antagonist. 

Both of those options are not acceptable to his story arc. 

If all you mean is that his desire to defend will put him at odds with other Radiants I have no issue with that. But in that case I find Antagonist too harsh a word. An antagonist isn't someone you disagree with or have an argument with  An antagonist is some who actively works against you and your goals. 

Kaladin will only be an antagonist in my opinion, to people who are working against Roshar's interests. 

People are going to want to kill the Parshmen, not to undermined Roshar, but because they are embryonic Voidbringers. Kaladin can see that they're more than that and will disagree with the killings and their reasoning, but that's not the same as actively trying to defeat those people. 

I'm ranting at this point and I'll stop, but a disagreement or opposition on a single subject do not make an antagonist. 

[Toaster Retribution]

Oh, not really a Radiant (although you mever know for sure about him), but Hoid is a possible, maybe even likely antagonist. Remember what he said to Dalinar:

I will watch this world burn to get what I want.

[Nathrangking]

I said antagonistic not antagonist. He may not transform into a villainous figure, but he will not stand for the mistreatment/elimination of the parshmen. Many will actively seek to destroy them it would not surprise me if he actively fought against those who would destroy them which may at some point include Shallan and Jasnah. I would not say that he will be evil, but he will fight back I think because the sum of his experiences including those with Rlain will leave him unable to stand by and do nothing.

[cultivationspren]

I don't think villain, but Shallan's association with the ghostbloods and Pattern's insistence that Shallan will kill him hints that she is going to struggle with her morality.  

I think, on the other hand, there may be some villains going the other way, similar to Darkness. Amaram is actually someone who I think could turn good, which I suppose could cause Kal to turn on Dalinar.  Szeth is another.  Amaram being evil isn't necessary for the future - not with Taravangian and Iyatil there and Roion's family having been humiliated by Adolin.  

[Calderis]

5 minutes ago, cultivationspren said:

Amaram being evil isn't necessary for the future - not with Taravangian and Iyatil there and Roion's family having been humiliated by Adolin

Iyatil is evil? 

[maxal]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Iyatil is evil? 

I think he means Ialai.

[Calderis]

1 minute ago, maxal said:

I think he means Ialai.

Ah, that would make sense. Ialai is going to be major trouble. 

[maxal]

3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Ah, that would make sense. Ialai is going to be major trouble. 

And Roion's princedom with Jakamav having been humiliated. He was 3rd dahn. He was leading armies He could end up being the next Highprince and this even if Roion has a son. 

And Ruthar since his son was humiliated and sent away in shame.

And Ialai is not done being trouble. 

I say unity across Alethkar will take another book to cement and some major power changes, but Dalinar's task is not over.

[Toaster Retribution]

Just now, maxal said:

And Roion's princedom with Jakamav having been humiliated. He was 3rd dahn. He was leading armies He could end up being the next Highprince and this even if Roion has a son. 

And Ruthar since his son was humiliated and sent away in shame.

And Ialai is not done being trouble. 

I say unity across Alethkar will take another book to cement and some major power changes, but Dalinar's task is not over.

This would actually be really cool. If Jakamav became Highprince and allied himself with Ruthar, Ialai and possibly Amaram, we could have a pretty cool group of villains. I would like to see more Jakamav.

[Nathrangking]

Ialai was always the most dangerous element in Sadeas's sphere of influence. She will be a thorn in Dalinar's side which in time will sow much chaos. I am interested to see how long before she and the Ghostbloods run into each other. That will prove to be an interesting clash.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Nathrangking

[Toaster Retribution]

1 hour ago, Nathrangking said:

Ialai was always the most dangerous element in Sadeas's sphere of influence. She will be a thorn in Dalinar's side which in time will sow much chaos. I am interested to see how long before she and the Ghostbloods run into each other. That will prove to be an interesting clash.

Why would the Ghostbloods want her? Unless they think she can further their goal in some way, they wont care about her. It would be neat if Mraize blowgunned her though.

[Nathrangking]

You misunderstood what I meant. They would not be on the same side they would fighting against each other for power.

[Calderis]

17 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

You misunderstood what I meant. They would not be on the same side they would fighting against each other for power.

Without knowing their goals this is still a pretty big assumption. 

I don't doubt that they would build political inroads for purposes of connections and financial support, but they seem to operate in a more underground criminal element. 

I don't think political power is their goal. 

[Nathrangking]

Even so the scope of Ialai's network is purported to be quite large and secretive in its own right if she catches wind of them she being the opportunist that she is will most likely see them as a threat due to the way that they can operate undetected. It requires a degree of assumption, but her personality is such that I believe that she would not pass up the chance to make a play to either eliminate potential competition or take them for her own use. 

[WhiteLeeopard]

Antagonist

1. a person who is opposed to, struggles against, or competes with another; opponent; adversary.

2. the adversary of the hero or protagonist of a drama or other literary work

 

Considering that in their minds very few people consider themselves evil or to be doing something wrong, I would understand this question as, will radiants oppose each other at any point in the story? And my answer is a resounding yes. It may not be permanent at any point, but even of the ones that we already know of they have very different goals, some of which would not agree with each other. For example, Szeth wants to have revenge in Shinovar, or at least we got that impression. That is something which right away Dalinar and Kaladin would be very strongly against.

 

As for if I think that radiants will oppose each other personality wise, my opinion is yes too. Some of them already have bad history with each other. I could also see some like Jasnah and Lift being so completely different from each other that they might not be able to work together, and could even oppose each other, Jasnah looking at the forest, and Lift at the trees.

[+Extesian]

Villain vs hero is so hard to say with Roshar. There's enough information on mythology there to make people think they have the answer to saving the world, but not enough to prevent differences of opinion. Taravangian does some ruthless things but if it turns out he's right, was he ever a villain? Same with every secret society there. They all believe they're right, so who's right in the end?. Kel felt right, then seemed wrong, then was right. Someone can feel like a villain the whole time, because they oppose someone who's a sympathetic viewpoint character, but then turn out to be right. 

The only differences between a villain and an anti-hero are usually sympathetic viewpoint and whether their effect on the world is positive or negative. 

what if it ends up being that the Radiants are wrong, that their existence is creating a problem. Then were they villains or heroes?

Edited August 12, 2017 by Extesian