Long Game 37: Court Thread

[TheMightyLopen]

31 minutes ago, winter devotion said:

Do we get a new role?

Well the game would be over...so does it really matter?

54 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

Hmmmm...

It would be concerning if everybody agreed to take the test, and then the following cycle we find out all of the eliminators here simply decided not to switch. That would basically be an instant loss for us.

Still, if there's a way we can prevent this, I'd be game. It sounds much more interesting that way.

 

EDIT: Actually... It would be an instant win for 60% of us, because we'd change to Gilltie alignment... Hehehe... I'm starting to really like this plan.

It sounds much more interesting to end the game right away?  I thought playing the game would be the most interesting way to go. 

Hmmm. Maybe you're just faking interest in the Test to try and make us think you're village by hinting that you have a 60% chance of winning by taking the Test and helping the elims in this thread to win? >>

Stink, I thought you weren't going to cause chaos...

[STINK]

Just now, TheMightyLopen said:

Stink, I thought you weren't going to cause chaos...

This isn't Chaos! The game will be over in D1, with almost no changes whatsoever.

Sounds more like Preservation to me

[TheMightyLopen]

3 minutes ago, STINK said:

This isn't Chaos! The game will be over in D1, with almost no changes whatsoever.

Sounds more like Preservation to me

That's only if enough people agreed to do it, which isn't likely. And if only a small amount of players do it, the rest of us will have to figure out a way to move forward.

Sounds like chaos to me.

[DeTess]

...I might have missed it in the rules, but what exactly is the win condition of the medium? I saw it mentioned in the other thread that the mediums need to secure peace, so if that's their goal, how exactly is that done, mechanics wise(might that have something to do with STINK's attempt to get a lot of people to take the test)?

[DrakeMarshall]

I would also be very interested to know the answer to Randuir's question.

 

Also, the proposed plan is neither chaos nor preservation... It's "experimentation" 

[STINK]

3 minutes ago, randuir said:

...I might have missed it in the rules, but what exactly is the win condition of the medium? I saw it mentioned in the other thread that the mediums need to secure peace, so if that's their goal, how exactly is that done, mechanics wise(might that have something to do with STINK's attempt to get a lot of people to take the test)?

There will be peace in the Court when there is only me in the Court. 

[Elbereth]

1 hour ago, Drake Marshall said:

Hmmmm...

It would be concerning if everybody agreed to take the test, and then the following cycle we find out all of the eliminators here simply decided not to switch. That would basically be an instant loss for us.

Still, if there's a way we can prevent this, I'd be game. It sounds much more interesting that way.

 

EDIT: Actually... It would be an instant win for 60% of us, because we'd change to Gilltie alignment... Hehehe... I'm starting to really like this plan.

Why would it be much more interesting that way? Either the eliminators all win (very likely) and most of us who switch win (and if you don't, it's down to pure random luck, which is no fun at all), or in the unlikely event that everyone actually switches, no one wins in this thread, and it turns into a single-thread game. That's less interesting than this, because it completely removes the point of the game's structure. 

[STINK]

Alright y'all.

Change of plan, we're not all switching to the other thread.

I've got something much better in mind, but first I need both the MED CRED and also PMs. 

[Aonar]

7 hours ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Hello.

So, I suppose I should contribute.

I don't mind if Stink is the medium I guess. I don't feel the need to vote for him though.  I haven't completely grasped the rules yet, so I can't add much. We need to kill all of our eliminators before the other thread does, or before the other threads eliminators win.

One thing I'm looking at right now is meetings. When a Medium calls a meeting, will the villagers in the other thread be eliminators to us? Which means we'd want to lynch their most confirmed player? Or would we even want to lynch one of them? I think we'd still want to try and lynch one of our players to try to get an eliminator(on our side), since the game can't end during a meeting, which means killing someone from the other thread doesn't really help us. I think. >>

-Drake posted about the Medium/Dragonslayer-

Yeah, considering everyone will know who the Dragonslayer is, and that their win con will change to only protecting the Medium, I don't think they'll be a large danger, even if an eliminator is chosen(not sure why I thought this, Rand brings up a good point >>). Of course, if we strip the Medium of their role, the Dragonslayer will go back to their previous alignment(I'm assuming), which means they might try to give themselves an advantage by killing instead of protecting the Medium.

An Etheric Scientist and a Witch is a powerful combo.

As for the Test, can a player do this in the middle of a Day/Night? Or is it set somewhere in the Order of Actions at the end of a Turn?

Question for Aonar: If the Medium dies, what happens to the Dragonslayer, since they'll have failed their win con?

Question about the Zeta role: Does this "Each player taken has a 20% chance to die, or change alignments (alignments beyond the simple Court/Forest split...)" mean that you can get an alignment besides Gunnerkrigg or Gillitie?

That's all the questions I've got for now...

It can be done either Day or Night, and always comes dead last in the OoA.

They lose their role, and additional wincon. They are still capable of winning with whichever team they started on, though.

41 minutes ago, randuir said:

...I might have missed it in the rules, but what exactly is the win condition of the medium? I saw it mentioned in the other thread that the mediums need to secure peace, so if that's their goal, how exactly is that done, mechanics wise(might that have something to do with STINK's attempt to get a lot of people to take the test)?

You didn't miss it in the rules. It has not been made publically known. PAFO.

[STINK]

Aight, I need to make sure that can no-one take the test today, please? 

Us Court peeps are great, while those Forest peeps are also great but slightly less great. 

Also hope none of those Forest peeps come over, that'd be annoying to deal with

[DrakeMarshall]

53 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

Why would it be much more interesting that way? Either the eliminators all win (very likely) and most of us who switch win (and if you don't, it's down to pure random luck, which is no fun at all), or in the unlikely event that everyone actually switches, no one wins in this thread, and it turns into a single-thread game. That's less interesting than this, because it completely removes the point of the game's structure. 

That is assuming there isn't anything we aren't taking into account, I think.

Perhaps it would be a boring choice, perhaps it wouldn't. Either way, it's worth considering the limits of the game. The extreme case scenarios, as it were.

And this one is particularly of interest to the overall balance and workings of the game.

What do you think? Do you believe that such a strategy would technically succeed, or is there another factor?

Edited August 11, 2017 by Drake Marshall

[Elbereth]

1 minute ago, Drake Marshall said:

That is assuming there isn't anything we aren't taking into account, I think.

Perhaps it would be a boring choice, perhaps it wouldn't. Either way, it's worth considering the limits of the game. The extreme case scenarios, as it were.

And this one is particularly of interest to the overall balance and workings of the game.

What do you think? Do you believe that such a strategy would technically succeed, or is there another factor?

I... guess? Clarify that? What might we not be taking into account, and why is it bad that I'm making a prediction based on what we to know? 

Yes, I think it's a technically viable strategy for every eliminator and 60% of the village who transfers to win. I don't think it's a strategy I like, for the reasons I outlined. It would either turn the thread into one thread or end the game, and neither of those are interesting outcomes. I'd like to see this game actually play out, thank you very much, and I don't think that's a way to go about it. 

[xxGaea]

Wow. Just...wow. A lot seems to have happened while I was sleeping. I am glad that you have rescinded your test plan @STINK. I am looking forward to the mechanics of this game, and would find it absolutely dreadful for it to end so abruptly. At least it seemed like you were having fun, albeit a bit worrying at first. I still stand by my vote for you to become Medium, though, even if you have shaken my faith in you a bit. >.>

I won't be very active for a bit today, because I really need to work on getting caught up on my classes, so this may be my only post for awhile.

I must say, reading the conversations over in the Forest is highly amusing, and I really like the atmosphere of this game so far, lol. I'll work on posting rp and analysis later when I have more time, and after I have read more of Gunnrkrigg Court. (I'm only on Chapter 7 right now rip)

[the winter system]

Honestly, say everyone in this thread except the eliminators do go. One thread here has the forest here win and there's a high chance of major eliminator team boosts on their side. Let's assume that we, the court, win as eliminators in that thread. We have a tie, each of us winning one game. If we don't all Trial, then we have a (smaller) chance to win both threads. So tbh? Besides the inner troll that really really really wants to just jump into the woods for the lulz, it's probably a better choice for the Court's general win condition in both threads to not. And if everyone but the Eliminators switch, there isn't even a guarantee of us becoming Court!eliminators. I think there's about fifteen or so people, so sixty precent of that new eliminators-- ten or so eliminators onto the probably four or five team. So... high chance of winning one, low chance of winning another. 

This is all guaranteeing that we agree to it. So I think no, it's not a good idea unless we value the lulz over a double victory. 

[A Joe in the Bush]

Again for the people in the back. Taking the test has a 60% chance of switching alignments. ALIGNMENTS IN THIS GAME ARE GUNNERKRIGG AND GILLITIE. If you are a Villager here, that means you are a Gunnerkrigg. If you take the test, there is a 60% chance you will become a GILLITIE Villager in that thread. It is more likely for players to remain villagers than to become an eliminator.

Edited August 12, 2017 by A Joe in the Bush
Joe speaking, not Coyote

[the winter system]

21 minutes ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

Again for the people in the back. Taking the test has a 60% chance of switching alignments. ALIGNMENTS IN THIS GAME ARE GUNNERKRIGG AND GILLITIE. If you are a Villager here, that means you are a Gunnerkrigg. If you take the test, there is a 60% chance you will become a GILLITIE Villager in that thread. It is more likely for players to remain villagers than to become an eliminator.

Ah, right. This is sort of confusing. 

Anyway, +4 or so is a little bit more reasonably than PLUS EIGHT NEW ELIMINATORS. 

[Ecthelion III]

Gunnerkrigg Court.

They said it was a school, but reality proved it to be much more: a place of logic and learning, a base from which to explore the great mysteries of the world.

I spent all of my first term finding all the secrets of the place--learning how to get behind every door and into every room, places where I should not have been and places where I definitely should not have been. I would have spent my second term doing this, too, had I not already found everything. So I dedicated it to a different type of exploration.

You see, I'm a scientist. I thought this would be the place where I could finally fit in.

Then I discovered that the others here are different. Everyone possesses some kind of inexplicable etheric power--everyone, that is, except for me. I'm just a regular guy.

So that's where I find myself today, a stranger in a strange land. I still haven't decided if I'm the only sane one...or the only insane one.

[Burnt Spaghetti]

"Whaaa? You want us to go kill ourselves and just join the forest? Thats craaaazy talk! 'Oh noes the forest people dont like us! Lets all kill ourselves and join them!' Pffffft great plan great plan." CB had no intention of doing that suggestion anytime soon. Sure. Would probably stop the fighting. And quickly. But wasnt that like. A surrender more than a victory? 

[DrakeMarshall]

As it stands right now, the test creates a feedback loop.

 

If the forest is beating us, we are more likely to want to join them and take the test.

And when we take the test, the overall effect is to give the forest an advantage, because 60% of the time they gain +1 villager on their side and -1 villager on the other side.

So if a lot of us take the test, the forest starts to win, and if the forest starts to win, even more of us will have reasons to take the test.

 

I can agree that such a strategy is maybe not the most fun way to play the game. And therefore we shouldn't do it.

But isn't it kind of concerning that such a potential gamebreak is simply sitting there in the open?

I can't help but suppose that there must be something about the test that we don't know about yet. Something secret.

The test is an important game mechanic, and I'm sure the GMs have thought about this more than I have, so far.

 

EDIT:

Lets do some proper permutations for all this, hmm?

 

Court

    Case 1. Gunnerkrigg villager takes test.

        Outcome 1 (60%)- Alignment change. Gunnerkrigg loses one villager, Gilltie gains one villager. Gilltie faction is favored.

        Outcome 2 (40%)- No alignment change. Gunnerkrigg loses on villager, and gains one eliminator. Gunnerkrigg faction is favored (to a similar extent as the above outcome favors Gilltie).

    Case 2. Gilltie eliminator takes test.

         Outcome 1 (60%)- Alignment change. Gilltie loses on eliminator, Gunnerkrigg gains one eliminator. Gunnerkrigg faction is heavily favored.

         Outcome 2 (40%)- No alignment change. Gilltie loses an eliminator, and gains a villager. Gunnerkrigg faction is somewhat favored.

Forest

    Same as court, basically, except reversed.

 

So... The test will alter your alignment...

But in almost all cases, the test will favor whatever faction you are now part of, after testing.

That's rather dangerous.

So I am still lead to suspect that there is something secret in play here.

Or maybe I've just read the numbers wrong, and the test isn't vulnerable to gamebreaking. That is also possible.

Either way... Be careful, hm?

Edited August 12, 2017 by Drake Marshall

[DeTess]

@Clanky, @Metacognition, @Shqueeves, @asterion137, @BrightnessRadiant, you haven't posted yet, and haven't announced you weren't going to be there for the first couple of days like droughtbringer (as far as I know).

Also, no one has voted for the lynch yet. Are we going to skip that on day 1? I'm not sure if that's a good idea, but I don't really have any suspicions to act on either. The only thing that stuck out to me so far was Ecth's vote on brightness for medium at the start of the game when she hadn't even posted yet, but since it's ecth voting for brightness, I'm not seeing too much evil intent in that.

[STINK]

I go to sleep for like, idk 8 hours and this thread barely done anything! Where all you guys at?

[the winter system]

 

32 minutes ago, STINK said:

I go to sleep for like, idk 8 hours and this thread barely done anything! Where all you guys at?

I know, it's weird. I'd say PMs, but there ain't free pms. 

I've been busy, for the record, doing cool things and trying to push a huge rock into the ocean.

Also, in case anyone was wondering, this game isn't role madness. 

I was reading the other thread: apparently clarifications to the rules by our DMs made in colors that aren't black are true but designed to mislead, and clarifications made in black are design to clarify the rules. 

[Clanky]

Sorry for not posting. Have a very big deadline at work next week and I've been working 12+ hour days ti keep up.  Now over the weekend I've got spotty Internet but I'll do what I can.

 

Personally I don't see any reason to take the test right now. Unless you don't like your role or just wanna create some chaos. That second one is actually a pretty good reason now that I think about it though...

[DrakeMarshall]

7 hours ago, STINK said:

I go to sleep for like, idk 8 hours and this thread barely done anything! Where all you guys at?

We were sleeping 

6 hours ago, winter devotion said:

I was reading the other thread: apparently clarifications to the rules by our DMs made in colors that aren't black are true but designed to mislead, and clarifications made in black are design to clarify the rules. 

That is very interesting.

Well, in the least, that means this game has secrets. But that shouldn't be remotely surprising given our GMs.

The most obviously "secret" thing is the alignment changing factor with zimmy. I'm guessing this is a gameplay mechanic meant to mirror the thing with those spiders in the comic.

 

Also, I would like to conjecture that some roles may in fact be unofficially alignment indicative.

For example, I should like to predict that Ysengrin is Gilltie, and Reynard is Gunnerkrigg. There are a lot of reasons why that would make sense. Including what their abilities are suited to (Ysengrin would make no sense as an eliminator because he has a kill, similarly, Reynard would make a lot more sense as an eliminator because his powers lend themselves to creating chaos), and also how they each factor into the story (Ysengrin is utterly devoted to Gilltie, and Reynard seems to prefer humans).

Seeing as Reynard is potentially on our side, I should like to suggest that they claim roleless, if they are ever forced to claim.

 

On the Court side of things... Well there is nothing quite so obvious as the Ysengrin/Reynard pairing.

Although some roles, like the alignment scanning witch or the demi-fire elemental, would be somewhat unlikely to be given to the eliminator team.

 

EDIT: And finally, I read the relevant post Joe made that told us about "coyote" and "GM" voices.

I will note that this is possibly only a thing in Joe's thread. I imagine there is some level of autonomy between them.

I will also note that in that post, Joe very much implied that the medium's win condition is a little more nuanced then to directly make peace.

 

EDIT2: Why is the forest thread way more active than this one... 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Drake Marshall

[BrightnessRadiant]

11 hours ago, randuir said:

@Clanky, @Metacognition, @Shqueeves, @asterion137, @BrightnessRadiant, you haven't posted yet, and haven't announced you weren't going to be there for the first couple of days like droughtbringer (as far as I know).

Also, no one has voted for the lynch yet. Are we going to skip that on day 1? I'm not sure if that's a good idea, but I don't really have any suspicions to act on either. The only thing that stuck out to me so far was Ecth's vote on brightness for medium at the start of the game when she hadn't even posted yet, but since it's ecth voting for brightness, I'm not seeing too much evil intent in that.

Ah forgive me Randuir...only the people in discord knew I was traveling home yesterday (also welcome back from Holiday! The games weren't the same without your analysis!)

Also Ecthelion voting Me is NAI cuz....well it's us XD haha (again...this joke increases if you're in the SE discord server heh)

I've just now read a couple chapters of Gunnerkrigg court for the first time so I could get a feel for rp and the setting of this game. Now I still have to read the rules and the thread...if I do anything this cycle it'll be a miracle heh. One of my sister's is visiting today and I have a lot to catch up on here. Sorry for the delay, I honestly chose to play this game within the last 3 hours or so before sign ups closed so I'm playing catch up. I'll try and post when I can

Edited August 12, 2017 by BrightnessRadiant